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  #1  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:30 AM
Apotheosis Apotheosis is offline
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Dismantling Amendment II

It's disheartening for gun owners to unwittingly become deceived in to undermining Amendment II. Sadly, it happens all the time. Propaganda is extremely efficacious in deceiving us. It is effective because of the Ten Percent Tipping Point: https://earthsky.org/human-world/a-t...pread-of-ideas

I get that a member here does not like the John Birch Society. Many gun owners are not Founding Fathers Conservatives. I used to be Republican. I didn't leave the Republican Party. The Republican Party left me. For years (more than a decade) I've referred to myself as a Founding Fathers conservative.

The John Birch Society is the most conservative outfit of which I am aware: https://www.jbs.org/ It has vigorously protected the United States Constitution in totality and in accordance with intent of our Founding Fathers. I have never heard of nor do a know a liberal or neocon member of the John Birch Society.

The NRA is not a conservative organization. Many liberals (Mitt Romney) love to reveal their membership in the NRA while working to undermine Amendment II. I'm a very reluctant life member of the NRA. If it remotely endorses another gun control law, I will return my life membership card.

BTW, The Republican Party was so self-assured that Americans have been sufficiently propagandized in to believing the inevitability of globalism and the end of America's sovereignty that it had proudly nominated and vigorously endorsed Mitt Romney as its 2012 presidential candidate. Mitt Romney was all the proof I needed that the Republican Party had left me. Mitt Romney is a gun confiscator. He molts a few times a year and dens with pit vipers.

The neocon co-opted Republican Party and liberals know that they cannot legally repeal Amendment II. The only legal way to repeal Amendment II is via Article V of the United States Constitution. Enemies of Amendment II have devised a devious strategy of de facto repealing Amendment II one increment at a time. It had to dupe Americans to support its agenda of defacto repealing Amendment II. Sadly, many gun owners and Amendment II organizations including the NRA have endorsed and supported legislation that had as its intent obfuscating James Madison's Amendment II, weakening Amendment II one increment at a time until it will become unrecognizable from its original meaning, and finally duping a sufficient minority of Americans in to believing Amendment II is not an individual right and therefore subject to governmental caprice.

We are losing Amendment II one increment at a time. I have no clue of why one member in particular is hostile toward the John Birch Society. But it is infinitely more committed to preserving the integrity of the entire United States Constitution as it was written and intended. The John Birch Society does not compromise (How many times have we heard the NRA tell us that we have to compromise in order to be accorded privilege of keeping some rights Madison intended?) because it knows Americans do not have to compromise if the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land as it was intended.

The below linked article taken from the Mises Institute, the gold standard of economic and conservative news, reveals the process of altering the intent of Amendment II with the objective of government replacing God as souce of our natural rights:

https://mises.org/wire/why-joe-biden...control-debate

If government grants us rights, it can take them away.

The Mises Institute is right: we are losing Amendment II. Sadly, many gun owners are duped in to unwittingly undermining Amendment II.

In you want to preserve the integrity and supremacy of our United States Constitution as written and intended, The John Birch Society is where to turn. I've stopped donating to the neocon co-opted Republican Party at least a decade ago. Now I donate to authentic conservative candidates. I was aboard the Trump Train the second he announced departure. I've sent $$$ directly to his campaign. I've donated to Paul Ryan's opponent, Paul Nehlen, in '18. Paul Ryan is a definitive neocon globalist. He was a traitor to America's sovereignty. He sold out the middle class. He'd of taken our guns more quickly than Diane Feinstein and Chuck Schumer. Ryan is a neocon Republican. Ryan represents the reason I am no longer Republican.
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:32 PM
Phreddie30.06 Phreddie30.06 is offline
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I am not quite a follower of the JBS. But I do appreciate them. Nor am I a member of the NRA, I have donated. I am middle of the road Independent and read, and learn about those in or running for office. I VOTE!

The second amendment is just a start. What's next? The First amendment? 3rd? 4th?
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:26 PM
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The second amendment is just a start. What's next? The First amendment? 3rd? 4th?[/QUOTE]

I have an extremely left-wing sister-in-law who wants to trash the constitution and Bill of Rights. She wants this country to adopt European Union law so, I told her to go back to Poland---she flipped me off instead.
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:15 PM
clt_capt clt_capt is offline
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The second amendment is just a start. What's next? The First amendment? 3rd? 4th?
I have an extremely left-wing sister-in-law who wants to trash the constitution and Bill of Rights. She wants this country to adopt European Union law so, I told her to go back to Poland---she flipped me off instead.[/QUOTE]


When the 2nd falls, the 1st, 4th and 5th are not far behind.
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:56 PM
drail drail is offline
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I met a woman recently from Croatia who started talking about how Socialism can work if it's done right. I had to walk away from her. Keep your hands off of my Constitution.
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:26 PM
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One of my old neighbors was from Romania, under Soviet rule. Her husband was a business agent for the teachers union and both were huge Obunghole supporters.

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Old 08-16-2019, 06:55 PM
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That is odd. The working people I meet in the US from ex eastern block countries are all rabidly anti-commie. They escaped from it, why would they want ti duplicate it?

Ditto for Cubans that fled Cuba.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:06 PM
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That is odd. The working people I meet in the US from ex eastern block countries are all rabidly anti-commie. They escaped from it, why would they want ti duplicate it?

Ditto for Cubans that fled Cuba.
Do you think they escaped or could be they were planted????
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:07 PM
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Do you think they escaped or could be they were planted????
These days probably a mix.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:16 PM
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That is odd. The working people I meet in the US from ex eastern block countries are all rabidly anti-commie. They escaped from it, why would they want ti duplicate it?

Ditto for Cubans that fled Cuba.
^^^That is my experience also. They are stronger supporters than many native born Americans. They appreciate their freedom. Not to over generalize, but when it comes to 2A they’re just content to be able to own a firearm vs getting pissed with the over regulations and limitations that We detest so much.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:45 PM
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I met a woman recently from Croatia who started talking about how Socialism can work if it's done right. I had to walk away from her. Keep your hands off of my Constitution.
This is my whole problem with the recent wave of immigrants. They didn't come here to the USA to embrace its freedoms, traditions and culture. They came here only for work, and they want to change this nation to be more like their own home country. My ex took the immigration test, read up on the Constitution and got her citizenship, but I know for a fact she doesn't believe in any of it and would prefer this country adopt the socialist philosophies of her home country.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:14 AM
45ofcourse 45ofcourse is offline
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Originally Posted by Apotheosis View Post
It's disheartening for gun owners to unwittingly become deceived in to undermining Amendment II. Sadly, it happens all the time. Propaganda is extremely efficacious in deceiving us. It is effective because of the Ten Percent Tipping Point: https://earthsky.org/human-world/a-t...pread-of-ideas

I get that a member here does not like the John Birch Society. Many gun owners are not Founding Fathers Conservatives. I used to be Republican. I didn't leave the Republican Party. The Republican Party left me. For years (more than a decade) I've referred to myself as a Founding Fathers conservative.

The John Birch Society is the most conservative outfit of which I am aware: https://www.jbs.org/ It has vigorously protected the United States Constitution in totality and in accordance with intent of our Founding Fathers. I have never heard of nor do a know a liberal or neocon member of the John Birch Society.

The NRA is not a conservative organization. Many liberals (Mitt Romney) love to reveal their membership in the NRA while working to undermine Amendment II. I'm a very reluctant life member of the NRA. If it remotely endorses another gun control law, I will return my life membership card.

BTW, The Republican Party was so self-assured that Americans have been sufficiently propagandized in to believing the inevitability of globalism and the end of America's sovereignty that it had proudly nominated and vigorously endorsed Mitt Romney as its 2012 presidential candidate. Mitt Romney was all the proof I needed that the Republican Party had left me. Mitt Romney is a gun confiscator. He molts a few times a year and dens with pit vipers.

The neocon co-opted Republican Party and liberals know that they cannot legally repeal Amendment II. The only legal way to repeal Amendment II is via Article V of the United States Constitution. Enemies of Amendment II have devised a devious strategy of de facto repealing Amendment II one increment at a time. It had to dupe Americans to support its agenda of defacto repealing Amendment II. Sadly, many gun owners and Amendment II organizations including the NRA have endorsed and supported legislation that had as its intent obfuscating James Madison's Amendment II, weakening Amendment II one increment at a time until it will become unrecognizable from its original meaning, and finally duping a sufficient minority of Americans in to believing Amendment II is not an individual right and therefore subject to governmental caprice.

We are losing Amendment II one increment at a time. I have no clue of why one member in particular is hostile toward the John Birch Society. But it is infinitely more committed to preserving the integrity of the entire United States Constitution as it was written and intended. The John Birch Society does not compromise (How many times have we heard the NRA tell us that we have to compromise in order to be accorded privilege of keeping some rights Madison intended?) because it knows Americans do not have to compromise if the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land as it was intended.

The below linked article taken from the Mises Institute, the gold standard of economic and conservative news, reveals the process of altering the intent of Amendment II with the objective of government replacing God as souce of our natural rights:

https://mises.org/wire/why-joe-biden...control-debate

If government grants us rights, it can take them away.

The Mises Institute is right: we are losing Amendment II. Sadly, many gun owners are duped in to unwittingly undermining Amendment II.

In you want to preserve the integrity and supremacy of our United States Constitution as written and intended, The John Birch Society is where to turn. I've stopped donating to the neocon co-opted Republican Party at least a decade ago. Now I donate to authentic conservative candidates. I was aboard the Trump Train the second he announced departure. I've sent $$$ directly to his campaign. I've donated to Paul Ryan's opponent, Paul Nehlen, in '18. Paul Ryan is a definitive neocon globalist. He was a traitor to America's sovereignty. He sold out the middle class. He'd of taken our guns more quickly than Diane Feinstein and Chuck Schumer. Ryan is a neocon Republican. Ryan represents the reason I am no longer Republican.
Thank you. I lurked here for a long time. The reason I signed up is that I saw too many posts calling for some measure of gun control. The gun owners here that want pre due process red flag laws are to much to accept. Then theres the "you dont need what I dont like" crowd. The 2nd, as written, is clear in intent and purpose. America needs the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights needs the 2nd.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:41 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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This is my whole problem with the recent wave of immigrants. They didn't come here to the USA to embrace its freedoms, traditions and culture. They came here only for work, and they want to change this nation to be more like their own home country. My ex took the immigration test, read up on the Constitution and got her citizenship, but I know for a fact she doesn't believe in any of it and would prefer this country adopt the socialist philosophies of her home country.
True. Today’s Immigrants come to pilfer what we have to offer in the way of our freedoms for work, a better life vs becoming American. My friends who came here 40+ years ago, came her to become American and never went back.
Thats why things like social security benefits shouldn’t be sent abroad imho, but thats me.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:38 AM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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The second amendment is just a start. What's next? The First amendment? 3rd? 4th?


They have tipped their hand on that too. Corey Booker a couple of days ago said that if he is elected he will have the government declare war on "white supremacy" meaning any speech that isn't properly politically correct on the subject of race will be illegal.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:48 AM
Icecream Icecream is offline
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I predict someday Amendment II will be repealed. And also most of the Bill of Rights. I see a constant attack on the Bill of Rights. When, cant say but everyday the enemy from within is chipping away and unfortunately, doing it in small ways is working. Starting with public schools and immigration. Every state has communities built through immigration to vote their society into our government. One day, they will take over.

Free of speech is under attack
Freedom of religion is under attack
Unreasonable search and seizures under attack
Bill of Rights is under attack


For those of use who love our Republic and Constitution, we get shouted down as bigots and yes, its working and we are allowing this. They have a louder voice and sympathy. Why don't we react, we all have excuses to include me.

Long time ago from a training intel seminar, it was stated that America would be concurred from the enemy within.
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:02 AM
Apotheosis Apotheosis is offline
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Good Morning 45ofcourse,

Thank you so much for your very kind reassurance.

I'm hopeful that most gun owners and liberty loving Americans get it: our ruling elite has schemed an agenda for removing our Christian God from His eminence as divine benefactor of all that He has created. James Madison said the the country our Founding Fathers created was created by the divine hand of God. Neocons and liberals have been working a sinister scheme (see: Everson v Board of Education) to remove God from our government leaving it as benefactor. With God out of the picture, government becomes source of our natural rights, and not God as was intended by our Founding Fathers. Our Founding Fathers, Madison in particular, believed our Bill of Rights was unnecessary and redundant because no government could interfere with our natural rights given to us by God. However Antifederalists were adamant in opposition to the US Constitution without memorializing our God given rights. Hence Madison included the Bill of Rights as constitutional recognition of rights given to us by God.

If neocons and liberals can remove our Christian God as Creator of man, grantor of man's natural rights and inspiration for the United States of America and We the People, government and not God will ascend unimpeded to pinnacle from which it will rule without morality over We the People. With God illegitimately vanquished, government would become sole arbiter of our rights. It government grants us rights instead of God, government can take them away.

My guess is 90+% of Americans have no clue of natural rights (life, liberty, property) and their origin, which is as intended by our illegitimate and omnipotent government.

Madison explicated Amendment II in his The Federalist No 46: Americans have the RIGHT to own guns to protect them from a totalitarian government and to retake their country by force if that were to become their last resort. Hence, Americans, according to James Madison, have the natural RIGHT to own military weapons as a necessary and required balance to government's military power.

There is ulterior motive for militarizing law enforcement, which is becoming de facto military and ruling elite operatives: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...ce-in-america/
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:12 AM
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Good Morning 45ofcourse,

Thank you so much for your very kind reassurance.

I'm hopeful that most gun owners and liberty loving Americans get it: our ruling elite has schemed an agenda for removing our Christian God from His eminence as divine benefactor of all that He has created. James Madison said the the country our Founding Fathers created was created by the divine hand of God. Neocons and liberals have been working a sinister scheme (see: Everson v Board of Education) to remove God from our government leaving it as benefactor. With God out of the picture, government becomes source of our natural rights, and not God as was intended by our Founding Fathers. Our Founding Fathers, Madison in particular, believed our Bill of Rights was unnecessary and redundant because no government could interfere with our natural rights given to us by God. However Antifederalists were adamant in opposition to the US Constitution without memorializing our God given rights. Hence Madison included the Bill of Rights as constitutional recognition of rights given to us by God.

If neocons and liberals can remove our Christian God as Creator of man, grantor of man's natural rights and inspiration for the United States of America and We the People, government and not God will ascend unimpeded to pinnacle from which it will rule without morality over We the People. With God illegitimately vanquished, government would become sole arbiter of our rights. It government grants us rights instead of God, government can take them away.

My guess is 90+% of Americans have no clue of natural rights (life, liberty, property) and their origin, which is as intended by our illegitimate and omnipotent government.

Madison explicated Amendment II in his The Federalist No 46: Americans have the RIGHT to own guns to protect them from a totalitarian government and to retake their country by force if that were to become their last resort. Hence, Americans, according to James Madison, have the natural RIGHT to own military weapons as a necessary and required balance to government's military power.

There is ulterior motive for militarizing law enforcement, which is becoming de facto military and ruling elite operatives: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...ce-in-america/
Ergo my reason for calling it the "godvernment".

But that last bit forwarded by JPR via Whitehead...good grief. Whitehead ruins his argument by his panty pissing, chicken little word plays. He is as bad as a Pelosi or a Schumer or a Durbin....
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:16 AM
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It would be an extremely difficult task to repeal 2A. Almost impossible. They will legislate the teeth out of it and then ignore or simply refuse to enforce the rest. Re immigrants, as you can see in my signature line, I’m a Captain of the Guard for the Sons of the American Revolution. As such I’ve lead the presence of our guard in many naturalization ceremonies and have seen first hand the joyous expressions on the faces of our new citizens who proudly wave our flag and beam with even more pride that they ran the course and competed their path to honest legal American citizenship. In general, they are allied to Old Glory and desperately want a new promising life filled with freedom. My brother’s S.O. is from Albania and immigrated here with her brother. I’ve spent a lot of time talking with her about her time in a former soviet satellite country and watch and listen to her contempt for the evils of socialism and communism.

Yes we have plants here and yes there are people out to destroy our way of life. But many of those seditious types were born here too. I just want to throw out there a kind word that legal immigration is still happening and there are many who do believe in what this nation stands for. Let the true colors come out when they come to disarm us. We’ll know who they are when time comes for the tree of liberty to be refreshed.
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:21 AM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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I predict someday Amendment II will be repealed.
I predict it will effectively be repealed by the USSC way before it would ever be eliminated by constitutional amendment. All it takes to do that is one more Leftist justice to go with the 4 already there who believe the 2A does not apply to individuals. That could happen very quickly if Trump loses and the Senate goes Democrat.
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:26 AM
Apotheosis Apotheosis is offline
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Good Morning Icecream,

Sadly, I believe you're right. However, without adherence to Article V of the United States Constitution, any infringement upon Amendment II is and would be unconstitutional. Not even congress has authority to infringe upon rights We the People were given by God and memorialized within Amendment II.

Our Founding Fathers created a government with very limited and specific power and authority. Article I Section 8 enumerates congress's limited powers: https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei Moreover, We the People were intended to be government, not politicians who are elected to work for We the People. We were intended to be self-governed. We the People, not politicians, were intend to be sovereign.

As evidenced by Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution, congress was not given power or authority to infringe upon our natural rights, especially Amendment II. Any law created by congress that infringes upon our natural rights is and would be unconstitutional.

Our Founding Fathers were the most brilliant assembly of men outside of religion. Their esteemed brilliance was memorialized within the United States Constitution. It was perfectly and clearly written. We the People do not need "experts" to TELL us its meaning. We can read it ourselves and instantly know its meaning.

Any "interpretation" of the United States Constitution that is inconsistent with it is nothing more than, at best, rationalizing bad behavior, and most assuredly effecting an agenda of vanquishing our constitution at the insistence of our ruling elite. I fear that ultimately our ruling elites' agenda of The New World Order, one-world-government, or globalism (they're synonymous concepts) will prevail, and we'll wake up as slaves in the country created by blood and brilliance of our Founding Fathers.
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:33 AM
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:41 AM
Apotheosis Apotheosis is offline
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I predict it will effectively be repealed by the USSC way before it would ever be eliminated by constitutional amendment. All it takes to do that is one more Leftist justice to go with the 4 already there who believe the 2A does not apply to individuals. That could happen very quickly if Trump loses and the Senate goes Democrat.
You're exactly right: Americans have been conditioned (tipped) in to believing our supreme court is omniscient and ultimate authority. Our Founding Fathers never created three equal beaches of government. Article III was intended to be subordinate to Articles I & II. If Article III were equal to Articles I & II, Article III would possess de facto authority over Articles I & II. Hence, we would be ruled by nine nylon cloaked despots who are not accountable to We the People. We would (are?) exist(ing) within caprice of an oligarchy.

Our ruling elite know that Amendment II will never be repealed via Article V. However, it has propagandized (tipped) us in to believing that supreme court OPINIONS have force of legislative authority; hence, their opinions become law of the land in violation of Article VI of the United States Constitution.

Our ruling elite are scheming to unconstitutionally repeal Amendment II by unconstitutional abuse of Article III. All it would take would be five political operatives on the supreme court to opine that Amendment II is not an individual right, and our guns would be confiscated the following day.
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:58 AM
Apotheosis Apotheosis is offline
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You will be a slave only if you so choose to be.
Tell us of our options vis-a-vis the most powerful military in the world?

As I see it, certain death is the only option to de facto enslavement.

The wise recognize cues and indicators, form realistic predictions, and work to prevent becoming slaves in the country founded upon blood and brilliance of our Founding Fathers.

Henry Paulson, Bush 43's Secretary of the Treasury, extorted Americans under threat of martial law if congress didn't pass TRAP. TARP was a massive fraud perpetrated upon American taxpayers. Its objective was to force American taxpayers to restore wealth of America's ruling elite that was wiped out during the recession of '08. Our ruling elite immediately had their lost hundreds of billions of dollars restored. Our kids and their kids will endure compromised quality of life, not to mention an unconstitutional confiscation of their private property, under force of law and threat of martial law. As you know, martial law vanquishes the supreme law of the law: The United States Constitution. Under martial law, We the People have no rights, not even right to life. How would an American family fare were it awoken at 3:00 am by a professional swat team or platoon of US Marines assigned to invade its house and remove its personal property?

The wise would prevent necessity of martial law. The best way to prevent martial law would be to dismantle America's ruling elite and return power where it belongs: We the People.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:24 PM
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You will be a slave only if you so choose to be.
Tell us of our options vis-a-vis the most powerful military in the world?

As I see it, certain death is the only option to de facto enslavement.

The wise recognize cues and indicators, form realistic predictions, and work to prevent becoming slaves in the country founded upon blood and brilliance of our Founding Fathers.

Henry Paulson, Bush 43's Secretary of the Treasury, extorted Americans under threat of martial law if congress didn't pass TRAP. TARP was a massive fraud perpetrated upon American taxpayers. Its objective was to force American taxpayers to restore wealth of America's ruling elite that was wiped out during the recession of '08. Our ruling elite immediately had their lost hundreds of billions of dollars restored. Our kids and their kids will endure compromised quality of life, not to mention an unconstitutional confiscation of their private property, under force of law and threat of martial law. As you know, martial law vanquishes the supreme law of the law: The United States Constitution. Under martial law, We the People have no rights, not even right to life. How would an American family fare were it awoken at 3:00 am by a professional swat team or platoon of US Marines assigned to invade its house and remove its personal property?

The wise would prevent necessity of martial law. The best way to prevent martial law would be to dismantle America's ruling elite and return power where it belongs: We the People.
Let your imagination run wild. It's been done since our Founders did it. It is being done today as we speak.

I would also caution you in your belief that the US military is some monolithic omnipresent unthinking robot. It doesn't work that way. And I guarantee it won't work that way if it came down to nut cutting.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:46 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Let your imagination run wild. It's been done since our Founders did it. It is being done today as we speak.

I would also caution you in your belief that the US military is some monolithic omnipresent unthinking robot. It doesn't work that way. And I guarantee it won't work that way if it came down to nut cutting.
I would not be too sure. One President has already used the regular military against U.S. citizens in Little Rock to back up a Supreme Court action. There may be patriots in the military still but they would be taken out too.
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