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  #1  
Old 05-07-2006, 08:27 PM
crodbum crodbum is offline
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official "PROFESSIONAL" specification thread.

ok guys. along with a lot of other people on this board i am starting to see a pattern. mainly about the infamous "professional" model. questions,answers,myths get tossed around here every week. so i wanted to start a thread with specs, misc. info on the PRO. i wanted to get away from myths, and discusions about which secret special ops are using the gun. just cold hard facts.
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2006, 08:30 PM
crodbum crodbum is offline
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my first addition to the thread happens to deal with making ANY changes to the professional. people have asked(including myself) about what could be changed on the pro and still have professional markings on it. well here is the response i recieved from the woman herself. i hope this should clear up any rumors......

The Professional model cannot be changed in any way. It is only
available in the same configuration as authorized by the FBI. However,
you can have a pistol built to your exact specs through our custom shop.
It would not have the "Professional" markings or "CRG" prefix to the
serial number.

Deb
Custom Shop Coordinator
Springfield Custom
420 West Main St.
Geneseo, IL 61254
800-617-6751
[email protected]
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  #3  
Old 05-07-2006, 08:43 PM
Karsten Karsten is offline
 
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How about the rumor that SA TRP's are Pro's that didn't make the grade and were considered seconds....Thus marketed as TRP's

I have been looking for one every since that was posted without any luck.

Karsten
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  #4  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:18 PM
nframe nframe is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karsten
How about the rumor that SA TRP's are Pro's that didn't make the grade and were considered seconds....Thus marketed as TRP's

I have been looking for one every since that was posted without any luck.

Karsten
I sincerely hope this isn't true, I'd be very upset knowing that the pistol I just dropped $1,000 on was a second!!
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  #5  
Old 05-07-2006, 09:24 PM
Karsten Karsten is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nframe
I sincerely hope this isn't true, I'd be very upset knowing that the pistol I just dropped $1,000 on was a second!!

Not to worry, there are no such things as PRO seconds marketed as TRP. It was just something post here a while back and even Deb at SA had to laugh at that one.

I am sure you TRP is a 1st rate pistol, mine is and have been for a number of years.

Karsten
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  #6  
Old 05-08-2006, 01:24 PM
Kamau Kamau is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crodbum
However,
you can have a pistol built to your exact specs through our custom shop.
It would not have the "Professional" markings or "CRG" prefix to the
serial number.

Deb
Custom Shop Coordinator
Springfield Custom
420 West Main St.
Geneseo, IL 61254
800-617-6751
[email protected]
Caught my interest. Would this pistol be completely hand built like the Pro. or would it be a retrofitted mass produced model?
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  #7  
Old 05-08-2006, 02:43 PM
crodbum crodbum is offline
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kamau. you can have both! they can make you a wild competition one off type gun. or they can accurize your old s.a. g.i. model, colts ect.....
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  #8  
Old 05-08-2006, 05:51 PM
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jedi573 jedi573 is offline
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Yeah, if you order a full-custom gun from their shop, it will be held to the same standards as the Professional. That's the thing to remember - when they submitted their guns for testing, they were just Springfield Custom Shop guns. You can order a full-house custom from them any way you like it; the Professional is just a specific one that has certain options that's a contract run with the FBI. All of their high-end custom guns are held to the same standard.

Andy
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  #9  
Old 05-16-2006, 08:45 AM
m499 m499 is offline
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More info straight from the Custom Shop regarding the Pro and how it differs from the standard TRP:

The TRP is a factory pistol which has been upgraded with a few features to make it look like the full custom Professional model (FBI SWAT pistol).
The Professional is a full custom pistol that begins with a national match frame which has the oversized slide rails cut into the frame in our Geneseo machine shop. It uses all custom parts, including the Springfield Custom tool steel hammer & sear, Nowlin barrel & bushing, S&A mag well, Wilson ambi thumb safety, Novak low mount rear sight, dovetail front sight, match skeletonized trigger, standard guide rod system, and 6 specially tuned Metalform 7 round magazines. These pistols are hand assembled by custom gunsmiths in our Geneseo custom shop, under the supervision of master gunsmith David Williams. The Professional models meet or exceed all specifications of the FBI SWAT contract, including the accuracy requirement of 1.5" or better at 25 yards with Remington Golden Saber ammunition. The civilian pistols and the FBI pistols are built at the same time, with the gunsmiths never knowing whether a civilian or FBI agent will be using the pistol. These pistols are built approx. every 45 days, with the FBI order being filled first and civilian orders getting all of the remaining from the production run. These pistols do not have front cocking serrations or full length guide rods because the FBI chose not to have these features on their pistols. (Front cocking serrations catch on clothing and full length guide rods require additional tools for disassembly.) These pistols are finished with the Black T finish done by Walter Birdsong in MS.

The TRP pistol is a factory pistol which has been upgraded with more hand fitting than a standard factory pistol, as well as a 2 piece mag well, night sights, and better tuning internally. It has a quoted accuracy of 2.5" or better at 25 yards with match ammunition. It has the front cocking serrations and full length guide rod, just like the other factory "loaded" models. These pistols are finished with Springfield's Armory Kote finish, which is a painted on, baked on finish similar to the Black T finish.


Deb, Custom Shop Coordinator
Springfield Inc.
420 West Main St.
Geneseo, IL 61254
(800) 680-6866
[email protected]
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2006, 09:28 AM
m499 m499 is offline
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Here's an article detailing the exhaustive testing the FBI conducted in their search for the best gun possible. I think it's a "must-read" for anyone interested in the Springfield Armory Pro model.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...24/ai_57886947


A quote from the article regarding the FBI's accuracy requirements during their testing of the 1911....

"While all of the FBI's requirements were demanding, the most rigorous was accuracy. Chosen at random, two of the five guns had to shoot no more than 1.5" at 25 yards for three 10-shot groups from a Ransom Rest. Then the guns would be shot for 20,000 rounds in an endurance test, after which a second accuracy test would be conducted with no more than 15 percent degradation in accuracy being acceptable.

Wilson's, Colt's and Kimber's guns all failed the accuracy test. Kimber's guns were the worst, shooting 3.5", according to FBI records. The only two candidates to pass were Springfield Armory and Pro Gun. As noted previously, Colt filed a protest over the ammunition required for the accuracy test, which was rejected."



It's an interesting read.

Last edited by m499; 08-15-2007 at 11:21 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-17-2006, 04:46 PM
Brother Methias Brother Methias is offline
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'infamous' means bad..

Does anybody know why the thumb safety on the professionals is so ridiculously tight? Very difficult to manipulate unlike all my other 1911s, including the TRP stainless (sold). This is one of the problems which Hilton Yam addresses with his 'code 3' package, and i'm in line..
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2006, 09:46 PM
The_Shrike The_Shrike is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m499
Here's an article detailing the exhaustive testing the FBI used in their search for the best gun possible. I think it's a "must-read" for anyone interested in the Springfield Armory Pro model.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...24/ai_57886947


A quote from the article regarding the FBI's accuracy requirements during their testing of the 1911....

While all of the FBI's requirements were demanding, the most rigorous was accuracy. Chosen at random, two of the five guns had to shoot no more than 1.5" at 25 yards for three 10-shot groups from a Ransom Rest. Then the guns would be shot for 20,000 rounds in an endurance test, after which a second accuracy test would be conducted with no more than 15 percent degradation in accuracy being acceptable.

Wilson's, Colt's and Kimber's guns all failed the accuracy test. Kimber's guns were the worst, shooting 3.5", according to FBI records. The only two candidates to pass were Springfield Armory and Pro Gun. As noted previously, Colt filed a protest over the ammunition required for the accuracy test, which was rejected.



It's an interesting read.
Thanks for the article, that was a great read...the Transition Training sounds fun!!
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2006, 06:37 PM
45_4life 45_4life is offline
 
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If the average grup size for the pro is no more than 1.50 does anyone know if the Rob L. must do the same or better?
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  #14  
Old 06-03-2006, 06:42 AM
vic bastige vic bastige is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45_4life
If the average grup size for the pro is no more than 1.50 does anyone know if the Rob L. must do the same or better?

I'm not sure if Rob L. is manufactured to the same tolerances. I think the 1.5" group was a measure of the pistols' accuracy more than any particular marksmans' capability. For consistency during the Bureau contract competition, I would assume tha a rest was used for comparisons amongs the entrants.
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  #15  
Old 06-03-2006, 07:37 AM
LW McVay's Avatar
LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Methias
Does anybody know why the thumb safety on the professionals is so ridiculously tight?
When transitioning from a system that has no manipulable (is that a word?) - SIG/Glunk - to a 1911, its better that the safey be something very definitive/substantial to ingrain both its purpose and requirement to operate it correctly when engaging a target from the holster. It also allows for a slight bit of customizing to fit an individual operators taste once he has successfully completed transitioning. Some like it stiffer than others...Its easier to reduce stiffness than add to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Methias
This is one of the problems which Hilton Yam addresses with his 'code 3' package, and i'm in line..
Its not really a problem unless its a problem...operator dependent. For you, it sounds like it is. Any 1911 doctor worht his salt can easily make corrections to suit the individual.
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  #16  
Old 06-03-2006, 07:40 PM
crodbum crodbum is offline
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hey mcvay, give us a little of your expertise. could you add to the list , some info about the parts used in the gun? (whats m.i.m, whats not, who made the parts, springfield, wilson, nowlin ect.)

thanks.
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  #17  
Old 06-06-2006, 07:48 PM
GUNENTHUSIEST GUNENTHUSIEST is offline
 
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Pro Accuracy

The accuracy quoted from Springfield is less than 1.5 inches at 25 yards with Remington Golden Saber. Golden Saber is one of the least accurate rounds I have ever tested (and there is a bunch of published test data to back this up). I have had my pro for about 2 years and have seen groups of well under an inch with some "match ammo." My buddy bought a Wilson CQB against my advice because it was promised to shoot 1 inch or better at 25 yards with match ammo and he thought that since the pro shoots 1.5 inches with Golden Saber, the wilson must be better, but that was not the case. Neither he nor I have got his Wilson shooting under 1" with any ammo we've tested including "match ammo". When we tried Golden Saber out of his CQB we averaged 3.5" with a best of 2.0" and a worst of 5.0!" Anyway my point is that saying the CQB is more accurate than the pro because it shoots 1" groups and the pro shoots 1.5" groups is not correct.
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  #18  
Old 06-08-2006, 04:17 AM
DHart DHart is offline
 
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I read here that a number of the parts on the Pro are MIM. Surprised the heck out of me. For $2000+ I would expect a factory 1911 to contain the best small parts available... such parts aren't really all THAT costly to put on a gun anyway. Which parts in the PRO are MIM parts?
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  #19  
Old 06-19-2006, 08:03 AM
Lando Lando is offline
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metalform mags

At a recent shooting school, several of us were provided the new metalform mags to see how they worked. The only problem was that several of them developed cracks at the back of the mag where the feed lips meet the magbody. This would allow the top round to ride up between the feed lips and spread the lips enough to jam the mag in the pistol. It was near impossible to get the mag out.

Has anyone else had this problem?
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  #20  
Old 06-20-2006, 08:10 PM
Bluedeacon Bluedeacon is offline
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Professional w/night sites?

In the description the Professional model says it has Noval low mount sites. Are they night sites or do night sites just come on the TRP?
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  #21  
Old 06-20-2006, 08:37 PM
m499 m499 is offline
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They're Novak lo-mount night sights.
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  #22  
Old 06-20-2006, 08:41 PM
Bluedeacon Bluedeacon is offline
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Thanks, that seals the deal.
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  #23  
Old 07-02-2006, 01:17 PM
Nomadz Nomadz is offline
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DHART:
slide stop, firing pin stop, mag catch, and disconnector are High quality MIM I believe.Mine has 7000 rounds through it and MIM if done right (Wilson) worries me not.
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  #24  
Old 07-02-2006, 01:27 PM
dubb-1 dubb-1 is offline
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Again with the assumptions...C'mon. Deb has answered most of these questions more than once. If you'd bother to search her posts, your queries would be no more.
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  #25  
Old 07-02-2006, 05:10 PM
Nomadz Nomadz is offline
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Damian if your refering to my post my PRO is a fairly early production model and it does have MIM parts...its no big deal to me nothing has broken.I know Barbrady who posts here occasionly has an early PRO with the same MIM parts.Springfield have evolved the gun over the years it may well be MIM free at this point.I carry this 45 daily.
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