Making accurate lead bullet 9mm reloads..... - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-03-2020, 05:25 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,942
Making accurate lead bullet 9mm reloads.....

Many people that reload the 9mm cartridge like and use JHP .355" bullets, which usually offers very good accuracy in an accurate gun with a good barrel fit.

However, I had purchased .356" Missouri 125 gr. conical bullets, that would not group well and would keyhole. I knew it was not the gun, so I began the journey to understand why the bullets were "keyholing?"

From my experience, bullets that keyhole on a cardboard target are usually caused by an undersized bullet that does not expand at the base of the bullet to make a good and tight gas seal..... I made random checks of the diameter of the 125 gr. moly coated Missouri bullets, and they were very consistent at .356" diameter...….the bullet diameter was proper and not an issue......

I carefully examined my reloading process with my Dillon 1050, and realized I was shaving lead with the .356" Missouri bullets. Any time you shave lead off the bearing surface of a lead bullet, it may adversely affect the accuracy.

Since I use a Dillon powder measure, I measured the bottom of the powder measure that opens and flairs the case mouth when reloading. The powder funnel I was using for .355" JHP bullets, which shot very good, was .351" in diameter. When seating the .355" 124 gr. JHP bullet, it would swage the 9mm case mouth larger, and make a very tight fit that would not allow bullet set back when bouncing off the feed ramp of my STI 2011 guns. It would shoot very good groups with the .355" 124 gr. JHP bullets with velocities over 1,000 fps out the muzzle of the barrel.

Apparently, when using the same .351" diameter powder funnel in my Dillon powder measure, it was not allowing the case to open with enough diameter to seat a lead .356" bullet, and would either shave lead or swage the bearing surface smaller on the lead bullet...… I found and installed a Dillon powder measure funnel with a diameter of .354" that also allowed a slight flair of the 9mm case mouth, and began using this powder funnel exclusively for the .356" moly coated Missouri 125 gr. conical bullets.

The accuracy of my shot groups are now excellent with the .356" Missouri bullets, and no more "keyholing." My 9mm load for IDPA using the Missouri bullet is 3.8 grains of Tite Group, with the 125 gr. conical bullet. I will be using the Missouri bullets for practice and may even use them in competition. I normally use a 124 gr Precision Delta JHP for competition, and will continue to use these in USPSA for 9mm Major loads.

The moly coated lead .356" Missouri bullets are less expensive than any .355" JHP bullet I have tried, so they are a good value....about 7 cents per bullet....and since they are moly coated, they do not give off "smoke" when shooting! Since I have multiple Dillon 1050 tool heads, I have one tool head and powder measure set up exclusively for reloading 9mm using the .356" moly coated 125 gr. Missouri bullets, and another tool head with powder measure for reloading the 124 gr. Precision Delta JHP bullets.....it only takes about 5-7 minutes to change a tool head, and I can make 100 rounds in about 7-8 minutes using either tool head.....

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 06-03-2020 at 05:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-03-2020, 07:55 AM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The South
Posts: 8,926
I haven't reloaded for 9mm but shaving lead can also be caused when the relative motion between the case and the bullet seating die reaches the crimp portion of the die. The bullet is being held stationary while a shrinking case mouth is being pushed farther onto the bullet.

That was the issue I experienced with .45ACP and lead bullets and it was solved by applying the crimp in a separate step.
__________________
The Second Amendment-America's Homeland Security!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-03-2020, 10:46 AM
RetiredRod's Avatar
RetiredRod RetiredRod is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Springfield, Missouri
Posts: 14,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Methane View Post
I haven't reloaded for 9mm but shaving lead can also be caused when the relative motion between the case and the bullet seating die reaches the crimp portion of the die. The bullet is being held stationary while a shrinking case mouth is being pushed farther onto the bullet.

That was the issue I experienced with .45ACP and lead bullets and it was solved by applying the crimp in a separate step.
Yes, but not applicable here. I'm pretty sure Rwe is seating and crimping in separate steps with separate dies per the 1050 die station set up.

What you described is the major reason most of us recommend seating and crimping in separate steps.
__________________


NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 06-03-2020, 11:25 AM
mikld mikld is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: So. Oregon
Posts: 1,135
I've been casting and shooting bullets for all my handguns for quite a few years and determined, very early on, that bullets, especially a cast bullet, needs an "entry way" into the case. For my 9mm loads, PCed, nekkid cast or jacketed, I use a Lyman M die and make sure there is flare along with the expanding. In all my reloading if a crimp is being applied during seating enough to shave or swage a bullet, it needs proper adjustment, and for me, I separate the steps. My cast 9mm bullets don't lead the barrels (to any extent as there will always be some fouling) because I have worked the loads up with bullet diameter and a good lube being the primary factors...
__________________
My Anchor is holding fast...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-03-2020, 01:16 PM
markm markm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,328
You must be using a 38/357 powder funnel which measures .355. I've taken to the powder funnels Uniquetek has which starts out like a standard (.352) 9mm and then has a small step at the top to .356. I like them because I find it hard to sit the bullets perfectly square with a normal flare or bell shape. With these I don't have to bell, just use the step at the top and the bullets drop in square and straight. I've used them with flat bottomed 357 cast bullets as well.
But if that's not enough there's .357 and .358 powder dies for coated bullets too http://uniquetek.com/product/T1736
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-03-2020, 08:06 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The South
Posts: 8,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredRod View Post
Yes, but not applicable here. I'm pretty sure Rwe is seating and crimping in separate steps with separate dies per the 1050 die station set up.

What you described is the major reason most of us recommend seating and crimping in separate steps.
I don't know, it wasn't specified in the original post in spite of more than sufficient positions in the tool head to accept a crimp only die!

It only takes seconds to change the tool head in my 550 but alas, it only has four positions...

The tapered case of the Parabellum cartridge presents multiple possible challenges to the reloader. Having a powder funnel of dimensions appropriate to needs was fortuitous though with the taper I can't help but wonder if there is enough neck tension remaining prevent setback under all situations.

It is after all neck tension that provides the primary resistance to bullet setback in self loader cartridges.

Except that some 9mm cases are reported to have various devices like cannelures or steps in wall thickness to block setback...
__________________
The Second Amendment-America's Homeland Security!

Last edited by Capt. Methane; 06-03-2020 at 08:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-03-2020, 09:04 PM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,942
Reloading 9mm lead bullets....

Yes, whenever I use a taper crimp, it is always with a separate taper crimp die... I do this on .45 acp bullets, .38 super, .40S&W and 9mm.....

The only time I ever use a roll crimp is on revolver cartridges with stout loads, like the .357 magnum.... a lead bullet in the revolver cylinder may move slightly forward out of the case due to stout recoil..... when I first discovered this phenomenon, the nose of the bullet would protrude beyond the edge of the cylinder and actually bind the cylinder at the forcing cone.....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-03-2020, 09:21 PM
Grandpas50AE's Avatar
Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Waxahachie, Tx.
Age: 69
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
Yes, whenever I use a taper crimp, it is always with a separate taper crimp die... I do this on .45 acp bullets, .38 super, .40S&W and 9mm.....

The only time I ever use a roll crimp is on revolver cartridges with stout loads, like the .357 magnum.... a lead bullet in the revolver cylinder may move slightly forward out of the case due to stout recoil..... when I first discovered this phenomenon, the nose of the bullet would protrude beyond the edge of the cylinder and actually bind the cylinder at the forcing cone.....
Yes - the recoil is acting just like a kinetic bullet puller. I discovered this in the early 70's with .357 Mag. and .44 Mag. Definitely a good roll crimp on heavy revolver cartridges!
__________________
Roger - Life GOA, CCRKBA, TSRA, VCDL
NRA Benefactor - Certs -Chief RSO; Instructor - Basic Pistol (D.E.), Rifle, Shotgun, PPIH, PPOH

Army M.P. 1971 - 1972
Wilsons: Several; Kimbers: 10mm (Wilsonized), .38S (Wilson barrel)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-03-2020, 10:25 PM
Chris1971 Chris1971 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Iowa
Posts: 252
OP - Thanks for sharing! I always learn something around here 👍.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-05-2020, 03:35 PM
BrokenGrunt's Avatar
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: East of Dallas
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
You must be using a 38/357 powder funnel which measures .355. I've taken to the powder funnels Uniquetek has which starts out like a standard (.352) 9mm and then has a small step at the top to .356. I like them because I find it hard to sit the bullets perfectly square with a normal flare or bell shape. With these I don't have to bell, just use the step at the top and the bullets drop in square and straight. I've used them with flat bottomed 357 cast bullets as well.
But if that's not enough there's .357 and .358 powder dies for coated bullets too http://uniquetek.com/product/T1736
The Uniquetek funnels are awesome! I have them on all my toolheads.

The new 9mm funnel for heavy bullets is the answer to my dream! Now I can load those NOE 155 gr bullets without shaving the base!
__________________
Semper Fi till the day I die.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-06-2020, 11:17 AM
Big Pete10 Big Pete10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,086
I usually shoot plated bullets in the 9mm guns. A few years ago I bought 1000 124 cast RN bullets, thinking maybe they would be more accurate than the plated bullets. I loaded them on a 550B, Unique powder, Fed primers. I use RCBS dies for sizing and seating the bullet, taper crimp in station 4. I had no problems with key holing, accuracy was same as the plated bullets, no appreciable leading in the FS 92 or a Citadel 1911 gun. My Ruger LC9 was another story, it did lead a bit. I now have a Valkyrie and some 125 Cast SWC to try but Haven't had a chance to shoot them in any of my guns, if they'll feed the SWC. I will add that I was able to seat the cast bullets without shaving led, using the std Dillon powder funnel.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-06-2020, 11:45 AM
mikld mikld is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: So. Oregon
Posts: 1,135
FWIW; more often than not, commercial cast bullets are too hard, and many too small. Keyholing is from an unstable bullet and can be from an under size too hard bullet, too soft a bullet not gripping the rifling (skidding) and even a poor load for the barrel, alloy and speed. While I don't get keyholing in my 9mm pistol handloads, accuracy suffers and sometimes I get barrel leading. If my barrel slugs out to .355" I will start with a .357" bullet of about 12 BHN and work from there. I start with lower powder charges and work up for accuracy. When reloading my cast bullets I will seat a few, just like I do when reloading, then pull and measure to make sure there is no swaging. I use a decent rifle bullet lube, on a bullet .002" over groove diameter with a mid range load of a mid speed handgun powder to work best (W231/HP-38, Ramshot, Unique an Universal work best for me)
__________________
My Anchor is holding fast...

Last edited by mikld; 06-06-2020 at 11:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-07-2020, 06:14 PM
BrokenGrunt's Avatar
BrokenGrunt BrokenGrunt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: East of Dallas
Posts: 239
My 9mm bullets are made with an 11 bhn alloy and coated with Hi-Tek. I size to .357.

These bullets work in all my 9mm pistols and my carbine. There's no leading.

My newest 9mm is a 10" AR pistol from PSA. Yesterday at the range at 22.5 yards it was shooting one hole groups with a red dot sight.

It took me about a year to find the right bullet mold and figure out all the quirks of loading and shooting lead bullets in the 9mm.

The mold is an MP eight cavity 125 gr round nose flat point. I load it over 4 grains of WST. It's been accurate in every firearm my buddy and I have tried it in.
__________________
Semper Fi till the day I die.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:31 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved