45acp in 460 is ok, 40sw in 10mm=bad? - 1911Forum
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  #1  
Old 05-31-2020, 02:12 PM
119154 119154 is offline
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I cannot find one person claiming that firing 45acp in a 460 Rowland 1911 is bad for the extractor. Every post regarding shooting 40 S&W in a 10mm 1911 says it will destroy the extractor and is really bad and stupid.

I don't understand the difference. Am I missing something? Seems like the 45acp would be harder on an extractor than 40. Maybe it is a "don't ask, don't tell" thing?
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2020, 02:24 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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It works fine but it's higher pressure and more risky, the rim is smaller as well as the OAL being way different meaning there is a lot more free bore and feeding can be weird

.45 and .460 are nearly the same and are only different to prevent a .45 from closing on a .460 and possibly blowing up. You can load .460 levels of power in cut down .460 brass and use it in a properly setup .45 chamber but it's not safe on a stock gun and may break parts.

The .40 and 10mm are very different from each other in comparison
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2020, 02:39 PM
119154 119154 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
It works fine but it's higher pressure and more risky, the rim is smaller as well as the OAL being way different meaning there is a lot more free bore and feeding can be weird

.45 and .460 are nearly the same and are only different to prevent a .45 from closing on a .460 and possibly blowing up. You can load .460 levels of power in cut down .460 brass and use it in a properly setup .45 chamber but it's not safe on a stock gun and may break parts.

The .40 and 10mm are very different from each other in comparison
What is the risk? The 10 and 460 are both high pressure rounds. If anything, freebore decreases pressure I think. The 40 case can surely handle 40 pressures.

The difference in length seems irrelevant, as either should headspace off the extractor. Yes, the 40 rim is smaller, but the 40 is lighter so I would think it's a wash. Would a brass rim deform the extractor? If so, a 45 would still deform the extractor.
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2020, 06:29 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by 119154 View Post
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
It works fine but it's higher pressure and more risky, the rim is smaller as well as the OAL being way different meaning there is a lot more free bore and feeding can be weird

.45 and .460 are nearly the same and are only different to prevent a .45 from closing on a .460 and possibly blowing up. You can load .460 levels of power in cut down .460 brass and use it in a properly setup .45 chamber but it's not safe on a stock gun and may break parts.

The .40 and 10mm are very different from each other in comparison
What is the risk? The 10 and 460 are both high pressure rounds. If anything, freebore decreases pressure I think. The 40 case can surely handle 40 pressures.

The difference in length seems irrelevant, as either should headspace off the extractor. Yes, the 40 rim is smaller, but the 40 is lighter so I would think it's a wash. Would a brass rim deform the extractor? If so, a 45 would still deform the extractor.
That's the entire issue, smaller rim, more freebore IS the problem. .45 and .460 do not have as much of a difference between them
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2020, 07:30 PM
119154 119154 is offline
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Ok, so smaller rim diameter and free bore are the problems. It is widely accepted that 40 in a 10mm glock is fine. Same freebore, same rim diameter.

Can anyone actually explain why those are dangerous problems in a 1911?
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  #6  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:15 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by 119154 View Post
Ok, so smaller rim diameter and free bore are the problems. It is widely accepted that 40 in a 10mm glock is fine. Same freebore, same rim diameter.

Can anyone actually explain why those are dangerous problems in a 1911?
It has the same issues in glocks, even worse actually since the rifling tends to build up debris more easily and can cause a pressure spike if you shoot a bunch of .40 then go 10mm without cleaning

It's dangerous with any of them to do that direction, again it's not like a .45 in a .460
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  #7  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:51 PM
119154 119154 is offline
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Based on the lack of response, I'm going to have to assume nobody has a legitimate reason not to shoot 40 in a 10mm. Like striker2237 points out, as long as the gun is cleaned and maintained there is no reason to be scared. Clean and maintained is safer for any firearm anyways.

With that said, if anyone does come up with a good theory, I'd love to hear it.
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  #8  
Old 05-31-2020, 10:09 PM
markm markm is offline
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I didn't even know 40 in a 10 was a thing except accidentally. A while back I guy I see at the range often was having problems with his 220 in 10 and he came and got me to see what was wrong knowing I shoot a lot of Sigs.
He was having problems getting the gun to go into battery. I told him it looks like your chamber is either fouled, messed up or your ammo is bad. Then he said that's funny, I just fired two boxes of 40 out of it and it worked fine. I just walked away shaking my head.
I don't even shoot 38 in a 357mag which is perfectly ok because it fouls the cylinder.
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  #9  
Old 05-31-2020, 10:11 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
I didn't even know 40 in a 10 was a thing except accidentally. A while back I guy I see at the range often was having problems with his 220 in 10 and he came and got me to see what was wrong knowing I shoot a lot of Sigs.
He was having problems getting the gun to go into battery. I told him it looks like your chamber is either fouled, messed up or your ammo is bad. Then he said that's funny, I just fired two boxes of 40 out of it and it worked fine. I just walked away shaking my head.
I don't even shoot 38 in a 357mag which is perfectly ok because it fouls the cylinder.
My point exactly with the free bore causing issues
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  #10  
Old 05-31-2020, 10:20 PM
119154 119154 is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post

My point exactly with the free bore causing issues
I gotcha now, I thought you meant the actual freebore before the bullet hits the rifling, not just a dirty chamber. I still dont know that I would want to shoot a 460 after 1k rounds of 45 either, even though the chambers are much closer. A clean gun just seems a given to me.
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2020, 08:17 AM
TRX302 TRX302 is offline
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I cannot find one person claiming that firing 45acp in a 460 Rowland 1911 is bad for the extractor.
After years of saying it was safe to shoot .45 ACP in a .460 chamber, Jimmy Rowland now says not to do it. No explanation why.
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2020, 01:16 PM
119154 119154 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRX302 View Post
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Originally Posted by 119154 View Post
I cannot find one person claiming that firing 45acp in a 460 Rowland 1911 is bad for the extractor.
After years of saying it was safe to shoot .45 ACP in a .460 chamber, Jimmy Rowland now says not to do it. No explanation why.
I assume you mean Johnny, or is Jimmy a brother or something? Where does he say this?

Kind of odd to not give an explanation, unless it is solely due to litigious reasons.
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2020, 03:18 PM
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I think it's a "why the hell would you shoot cartridges other than the one the gun's chambered for" thing?
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2020, 03:29 PM
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Next up: firing 380acp/9mmK from 9mm.
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2020, 04:13 PM
119154 119154 is offline
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I think it's a "why the hell would you shoot cartridges other than the one the gun's chambered for" thing?
There are a lot of reasons, the biggest 2 are it can be convenient and fun. 22 shorts in a lever or pump is a hoot. I have a 357 that is very unpleasant to run 357, so it only sees 38. Every so often I shoot 3" shells, but 2-3/4 is perfect for many things.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:27 PM
RodII RodII is offline
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Originally Posted by TRX302 View Post
After years of saying it was safe to shoot .45 ACP in a .460 chamber, Jimmy Rowland now says not to do it. No explanation why.
I just went to Rowland's site to the FAQ and it said it was safe, here is a quote from the creator.

FROM JOHNNY ROWLAND (the creator of the .460 Rowland Cartridge and Conversion): “I would think that after 18 or so years of experience in using the .45 ACP in my .460 Rowland® barrel and even mixing .45 ACP shells with my .460 Rowland® shells in the same magazine for practical and demo purposes, I should know by now whether or not it would be functional or rational to do so. It is. And this is certainly a useful feature of the .460 Rowland® barrel-shell-gun concept: for Converted guns to also be able to shoot the common .45 ACP ammo in addition to our Magnum Power .460 Rowland® ammunition.”

Like most things on the internet someone's opinion becomes facts.
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2020, 05:27 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by 119154 View Post
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post

My point exactly with the free bore causing issues
I gotcha now, I thought you meant the actual freebore before the bullet hits the rifling, not just a dirty chamber. I still dont know that I would want to shoot a 460 after 1k rounds of 45 either, even though the chambers are much closer. A clean gun just seems a given to me.
It mainly won't chamber in the case of a .460 but not likely since the bullets are seated at nearly identical lengths but the brass of a .460 just extends further than on a .45
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