Tell me about the "escalator" draw - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-04-2020, 02:26 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,877
Tell me about the "escalator" draw

I've always used a five-step draw, with the last step pushing the gun straight out, from just below the sternum, toward the target as the last step.

I've read about competition shooters using a draw that sounds like "the shortest distance between two points"; with a race holster that requires only a half-inch of movement to clear, the gun is brought up on a line, from the hip, with the gun, support hand, and target all arriving near full extension?
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-04-2020, 04:45 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rocky mountain area
Posts: 686
Like an escalator, draw a mental diagonal line from where you’re clear of the holster to the target.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-04-2020, 07:37 PM
markm markm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,328
I learned the up and out method and over the years in competition have switched to the straight line method, simpler is better. There are advantages to the up and out in defensive situations, like say you are real close to your target.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 06-04-2020, 07:58 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,877
It won't work with a concealment holster that requires lifting the gun five inches to clear leather.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-04-2020, 09:35 PM
longarm longarm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: SE Wa
Posts: 299
OWB? What ever happened to breakfront? (obviously IWB yer scew-ed)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-05-2020, 03:52 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,942
Drawing from a holster.....

There is quite a bit of difference when drawing from a concealed holster for gun games, and a racegun holster for USPSA.....

First off, for most gun games, a concealment holster is placed along the center line of the body, behind the hip bone..... A USPSA racegun holster may be placed along the side or in the appendix position. Many Open shooters like and use the appendix position.

There are different styles when drawing the gun.... Some shooters use the "lift" draw, where the strong hand wraps around the grip but lifts the gun from the holster with a continuous upward movement. This is often used when the hands are in the "relaxed at sides" position for gun games. Another style is the "snatch" draw, where the shooter quickly moves the hand up and over the grip and presses down on the grip and literally and quickly snatches the gun from the holster. Both styles of the draw may be used depending on where the hands are positioned..... With the "hands in surrender position," with wrists above the shoulders, the "snatch draw" is often used.....

A fast draw is good, but some newer shooters get obsessed about drawing fast. A person with very fast reflexes has the advantage, which may be an innate quality as opposed to a learned response. For gun games, I have always strived to start my hands moving from the draw at the beginning sound of the buzzer, whiles some shooters don't start reacting to the draw until the "end" of the buzzer.....and some shot timers have a longer buzzer sound than others.....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-05-2020, 07:55 AM
yeti yeti is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,041
I still kind of push out from where my support hand comes on. Know exactly what the OP describes though. More of an immediate extension out to the target from the draw. Going to say it works well with a race (USPSA) holster.

Prefer to push into my support hand and extend outward to the first target. Easier (for me) to pick up the front fiber/dot.
__________________

NRA Life Member
RSO
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-05-2020, 10:59 AM
Lppd4 Lppd4 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,104
I liken the draw to ringing a door bell. You don't come up to the middle of your chest then push out to push the button. You extend your arm in a diagonal manner until you reach the button. Seems to be a good correlation to the students I teach.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-06-2020, 08:57 PM
waktasz waktasz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,631
Only 5 steps? I prefer 7
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-06-2020, 09:00 PM
waktasz waktasz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,631
Get your grip on the gun while moving your weak hand closer to your centerline to accept it, get your other hand on the gun as early as possible and build your grip as you get the gun to full extension with the sights on target. There's not much else to it. I hate having to help people unlearn the 19 step NRA draw

Last edited by waktasz; 06-06-2020 at 09:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-06-2020, 11:06 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rocky mountain area
Posts: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
It won't work with a concealment holster that requires lifting the gun five inches to clear leather.
Yes it will. Clear the holster, rotate the muzzle forward, ride the diagonal line to where you’re ready to trigger the shot.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-07-2020, 03:15 AM
markm markm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Yes it will. Clear the holster, rotate the muzzle forward, ride the diagonal line to where you’re ready to trigger the shot.
I thought that was obvious, even with my speed rig I still have to "draw" the gun, albeit much less.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-07-2020, 07:36 AM
Shach Shach is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 69
Muscle memory, doing the same thing the same way every time.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-07-2020, 07:55 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
I've always used a five-step draw, with the last step pushing the gun straight out, from just below the sternum, toward the target as the last step.

I've read about competition shooters using a draw that sounds like "the shortest distance between two points"; with a race holster that requires only a half-inch of movement to clear, the gun is brought up on a line, from the hip, with the gun, support hand, and target all arriving near full extension?
This probably falls into the categories of use whatever works for you. I have experimented with both methods, and using a timer and IPSC target. I could not beat my times and get an A-zone first shot repeatedly with the "Escalator" draw. On the occasion I could beat the times, it was not by anything significant. What was significant were controlled pairs and double taps were not as consistently in the A zone with the "Escalator" draw. I was consistently more accurate when shooting pairs with the tried and true push out method. I have been shooting the push out draw for over twenty years....so I thought it was perhaps muscle memory.

Over the last year I have been working with a new shooter. He loves the shooting sports and is young and eager to learn. At the beginning he was instinctually and with out realizing it using the "Escalator draw". His accuracy is fantastic when he is just standing and slow firing, with no draw from the holster. When drawing from the holster his targets looked more like a shotgun pattern. Once he mastered pushing out the gun, his accuracy from the draw has improved.
__________________
Ex-Military, 20+ years 3-Gun competitor, Colt certified Armorer, NRA Instructor, NSRT Officer-Retired, LGS Guru.

Last edited by M-Peltier; 06-07-2020 at 04:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-07-2020, 02:05 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by waktasz View Post
Only 5 steps? I prefer 7
I used to raise the muzzle straight up in the air as I cocked the hammer, to allow pieces of the fired percussion cap to fall clear, but even that is only six steps?
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-08-2020, 04:26 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,942
Drawing from the holster....?

How did the discussion of drawing a gun from the holster move to "drawing and cocking a percussion cap pistol/revolver.....?"
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-08-2020, 10:27 AM
markm markm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
I used to raise the muzzle straight up in the air as I cocked the hammer, to allow pieces of the fired percussion cap to fall clear, but even that is only six steps?
Well that's the way I learned but these days my club has a berm rule and that will get you a DQ. Which also makes it challenging to get the powder and ball in.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-08-2020, 10:36 AM
Rumblur Rumblur is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 681
you should draw however is most natural to you. All that silly "push out" stuff is for youtubers. If the SHTF you're not going to be an operator, so let it come naturally and repeat it.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-08-2020, 10:57 AM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Clear the holster, rotate the muzzle forward, ride the diagonal line to where you’re ready to trigger the shot.
The gun is already at sternum level, so the diagonal would be almost flat; a "standard" draw.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-08-2020, 11:09 AM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Not Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 21,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
How did the discussion of drawing a gun from the holster move to "drawing and cocking a percussion cap pistol/revolver.....?"
I think waktasz was making fun of my "five step draw" by suggesting there
could be even more steps, but I couldn't think of a way to add more than that one, and I stopped doing that 125 years ago?

The elevator replaces elements of the draw that are traditionally done in succession, with a technique that combines them, but if the gun isn't near the belt after clearing the holster, there's no slope to that elevator.
The traditional draw (five-inch gun drawn from a non-race belt holster) brings the gun up to sternum height, so the press is necessarily almost straight out.

I can see the advantage when drawing from a very low-riding holster that requires lifting the gun less than an inch to clear the holster, when you know you won't be shooting until the gun, both hands, the eye and the target are not in alignment until almost full extension.
I haven't drawn from that style of holster in years, after having done it every weekend for years,
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-08-2020, 11:48 AM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rocky mountain area
Posts: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Clear the holster, rotate the muzzle forward, ride the diagonal line to where you’re ready to trigger the shot.
The gun is already at sternum level, so the diagonal would be almost flat; a "standard" draw.
Well, humans do come in many sizes.....
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-08-2020, 01:17 PM
waktasz waktasz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,631
This is a few years old and I don't like the amount of "fishing" of the muzzle before full extension, but this is how I do it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY9Ny9VZPEo
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-29-2020, 03:10 PM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,942
Drawing from a holster positioned behind the hip bone

Drawing a pistol from a holster positioned more to the side, allows the weak hand to move close to the holster, while the gun is being drawn by the strong hand. When the muzzle is clear of the holster, the gun is brought up and toward the center of the body and both hands meet to form the two hand modern grip. Pushing the gun out near eye level allows the shooter to pick up the sights as soon as possible while attaining the target. Once the arms are near full extension, the shot is fired. Some shooters extend and lock out their arms while I tend to use bent elbows. However, I have a strong grip and do not allow my wrist to break when the shot is fired, which helps to mitigate recoil and allows fast sight tracking when the gun is set up with the right balance of recoil and hammer spring weight for the power of the load used......

For a 128--130K power factor IDPA load in my 9mm STI 2011 Eagle, I use a 10lb. recoil spring and a 19lb. main spring, which is extremely reliable with my reloads, with good accuracy.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:24 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved