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  #51  
Old 03-25-2016, 08:38 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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Not an LEO but:

"On March 13th, 2016, at approximately 9:50 pm., officers of the Richmond Police Department responded to 743 S. 5th Street, Just One More Bar and Grill, on the report of a robbery and shots fired. Once on scene Patrol Officers located the bartender who described the robbery suspect and events.

The suspect described as a white male wearing some type of mask entered the bar displaying a handgun and pointing it at all inside the bar while demanding money. At this time, a patron inside the bar produced his own handgun forcing the robber to flee. Officers learned that during this confrontation the patron had fired at the suspect before he escaped.

Within a short time, Investigators arrived on scene and began processing the crime scene as well as interviewing potential witnesses. Investigators continue to search for clues regarding the robbery suspect identity and whereabouts.

Anyone with information regarding this crime is asked to contact the Richmond Police Departments non- emergency number."

Captain Kevin Wampler
Investigative Services Division
Richmond Police Department

The guy in the story above wasn't arrested. So, one drink while carrying can ruin your life forever? Probably depends on where you live and drink.
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Last edited by BillD; 03-25-2016 at 11:19 AM.
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  #52  
Old 03-25-2016, 11:05 AM
GlenS GlenS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnepr0mike View Post
i don't get this 'dilemma' many firearm owners have and constantly argue about. if you carry - don't drink. doesn't matter impaired or not. it only takes one overzealous LEO and you can be in a world of trouble. for very least attorney fees and headache for worst case - prohibited person for the rest of your life.

also don't hide your carry piece in the bushes when you want to get into a night club and can't bring CCW with you.
AMEN totally.
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  #53  
Old 03-25-2016, 11:20 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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Originally Posted by ozarkmac View Post
Beating a criminal charge is one thing. Your challenge will be in civil court should you shoot someone with ANY level of intoxication. The threshold for guilt is lower and different elements of proof. Why would anyone risk their livelihood in this situation? Because bad things only happen to other people? Because I have personally determined that I can drink a certain amount of alcohol and still make appropriate decisions under high stress situations that I've never experienced?
Depends on the state. You can't make that claim in Indiana, no matter how much you want it to be true.
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  #54  
Old 03-25-2016, 12:09 PM
USCS USCS is offline
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Wonderfully Put

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanEOD View Post
I must be the odd ball in the group because I do not understand why people are trying to do the math that allows them to drink and carry a loaded weapon.

My personal rules are simple:

If I am shooting with others and alcohol is brought out I will ask that it be put away until after the shoot. If I am ignored then I pack up my gear, thank the host for inviting me, and I will leave. As a non-drinker it is not my job to be the babysitter or to make sure that guy does not have "one too many". I will not get into a vehicle with a person who has been drinking so why the crap would I want to stand next to him when he has a loaded 45. I do not know how many drinks it takes to get you drunk so I will leave before the frist one.

I am 56 this year and the few drinks that I had over 30yrs ago did not make me shoot straighter, did not make me drive better, did not make me dance better, did not make my jokes funnier, did not make me a better soldier, did not make me smarter, and did not make that steak taste any better. Everyone I know drinks to some level or the other and I will not try to stop you but I will say that the math is easy. One beer plus one loaded gun equals a world of pain if there is an accident. As a good friend once told me: "What would a jury say?"
As a non drinker it seems simple to me DON'T. I fail to see the importance of drinking while carrying. Authority under LEOSA was a hard fight " As congress giveth, congress can taketh away"
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  #55  
Old 03-25-2016, 12:28 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USCS View Post
As a non drinker it seems simple to me DON'T. I fail to see the importance of drinking while carrying.
Personal bias makes many things "simple"; if you personally dislike something, or don't enjoy it for what ever reason, or don't think its necessary, its easy to support prohibiting it for others....
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  #56  
Old 03-25-2016, 01:56 PM
Nevadajim775 Nevadajim775 is offline
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LEOSA under the influence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrigun View Post
Do not drink or take medication that may impair you to any degree and carry. Not even one drink. Nothing.

Impaired to ANY degree. That is our legal definition.
I agree with this. If you're going to carry, just don't drink alcoholic beverages. If it's a social event you can always drink any of the non-alcoholic drinks to blend in. Why make a technical issue (degrees of intoxication) out of this. If you're gonna pack, drink the soft stuff and remove all doubt. I'm a long time retired LEO and have carried for over 50 years on and off duty including UC assignments where alcoholic beverages were being sold/served/consumed. When you get off duty and home, toss a few stiff ones and don't worry about it.
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  #57  
Old 03-25-2016, 04:20 PM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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My training in alcohol impaired driver detection many years ago, started with an overview of what affects alcohol has on the human body. The first effect of the first drink is to start to diminish judgment.

Now the stress of a critical incident that requires a firearm is in its self a significant event.

I echo what others have said and do not consume alcohol when carrying. Any diminishing of my judgment is not acceptable to me.
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  #58  
Old 03-26-2016, 11:42 AM
rt11502004 rt11502004 is offline
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Owning a gun is made difficult by those who want to tell others what they can and can't do. Also folks try to restrict other things in our lives. That's just life. We have to cope. Be smart, avoid trouble. One will get enough problems just by existing.
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  #59  
Old 03-26-2016, 01:02 PM
Jhp147 Jhp147 is offline
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I will request-demand- that there be a blood draw after any shooting in which I'm involved off the clock. And I want it to show .000 BAC. Because there is a pretty good chance the other party's won't... and I want that real clear.
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  #60  
Old 03-26-2016, 02:03 PM
Corrigun Corrigun is offline
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And I want it to show .000 BAC.

You may want to re-think that strategy. Some people constantly produce a small amount of alcohol naturally and most people can from time to time. This is why the limit for under 21 is not 0.00
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  #61  
Old 03-26-2016, 02:15 PM
Jhp147 Jhp147 is offline
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Okay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrigun View Post
And I want it to show .000 BAC.

You may want to re-think that strategy. Some people constantly produce a small amount of alcohol naturally and most people can from time to time. This is why the limit for under 21 is not 0.00
How about as low as humanly possible and lower than someone who has been drinking, then, i stand corrected. But haven't ever heard that in my time. But it's been 37 years since I went to DUI training, though.

Last edited by Jhp147; 03-27-2016 at 08:32 AM.
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  #62  
Old 03-27-2016, 01:47 AM
cwo4uscgret cwo4uscgret is offline
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Like a few others...debating consuming alcohol and carrying firearms? Recipe for disaster.

I have nothing against drinking - I don't - but if I did I would not carry a gun...

Whatever your decision - responsible gun ownership should be priority #1.
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  #63  
Old 03-27-2016, 07:37 AM
CRT2 CRT2 is offline
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Interesting and informative responses. Thank you.

However, the subject for discussion/definition was/is "under the influence" not whether imbibing is acceptable when under arms.

In all states, .08 BAC seems to be the measurable legal definition with an ambiguous, subjective further definition of something like "incapable of discretion and sound judgement."

While researching this, it was interesting to find state laws that make it illegal to be under arms and drink, yet you can be in your vehicle, carrying, but under .08 BAC and be legal.
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  #64  
Old 03-27-2016, 08:23 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Personal bias makes many things "simple"; if you personally dislike something, or don't enjoy it for what ever reason, or don't think its necessary, its easy to support prohibiting it for others....
I've noticed this too in this thread and others like it.
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  #65  
Old 03-27-2016, 06:56 PM
21/503 21/503 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhp147 View Post
I will request-demand- that there be a blood draw after any shooting in which I'm involved off the clock. And I want it to show .000 BAC. Because there is a pretty good chance the other party's won't... and I want that real clear.
+1 I would offer a voluntary blood draw to anyone involved in a critical incident. Over the years I've had several truck drivers request a blood draw after a crash (usually at their company's Safety Officer's request). It's just another piece of evidence to protect the innocent from civil liability. If there was probable cause to believe they were affected by alcohol and/or drugs, you would need to get a warrant (in my jurisdiction, anyway).

Personal bias is something that has no business in LE. To me, intoxication means being affected by alcohol and/or drugs. Very few adults are legally affected by one drink of alcohol.
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  #66  
Old 03-28-2016, 07:18 PM
nowicanhitabarn nowicanhitabarn is offline
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I was totally wasted, for hours, by my first drink, a little Miller.
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  #67  
Old 03-28-2016, 11:05 PM
Pako Pako is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
Who does that?
There must be a surprisingly large group of LEO that do hide their pieces before entering bars. My partner would just hand his off duty gun over to the bartender when we went into a favorite watering hole in NYC, and then retrieve it when we left the bar - The Old Days...
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  #68  
Old 03-29-2016, 05:32 AM
exfed2002 exfed2002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pako View Post
There must be a surprisingly large group of LEO that do hide their pieces before entering bars. My partner would just hand his off duty gun over to the bartender when we went into a favorite watering hole in NYC, and then retrieve it when we left the bar - The Old Days...
Right, let the weapon out of your control, accessible to unauthorized persons, in custody of an unauthorized person. Idiot.

Wonder if he's the same idiot who dropped his gunbelt on the sidewalk when some perp challenged him to come at him without the weapon.................
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  #69  
Old 03-29-2016, 07:44 PM
21/503 21/503 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pako View Post
There must be a surprisingly large group of LEO that do hide their pieces before entering bars. My partner would just hand his off duty gun over to the bartender when we went into a favorite watering hole in NYC, and then retrieve it when we left the bar - The Old Days...
NYPD used to require their officers to be armed off-duty (Not sure if that's still the case).
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  #70  
Old 03-30-2016, 12:23 AM
cwo4uscgret cwo4uscgret is offline
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and once, in the land of Southern California....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pako View Post
There must be a surprisingly large group of LEO that do hide their pieces before entering bars. My partner would just hand his off duty gun over to the bartender when we went into a favorite watering hole in NYC, and then retrieve it when we left the bar - The Old Days...
A not too bright criminal decided to rob an after hours bar - unfortunately, like some movie scenes, the bar was owned by a retired LAPD Officer and his clientele were all off-duty LEOs. Pity - the bad guy didn't survive the double barreled shotgun that the owner used on him...
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  #71  
Old 03-30-2016, 05:51 AM
exfed2002 exfed2002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwo4uscgret View Post
A not too bright criminal decided to rob an after hours bar - unfortunately, like some movie scenes, the bar was owned by a retired LAPD Officer and his clientele were all off-duty LEOs. Pity - the bad guy didn't survive the double barreled shotgun that the owner used on him...
On more than one occasion in NYC some genius decided to try to rob the bank just down the street from Federal Plaza on payday when we were still getting paper checks.
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  #72  
Old 03-30-2016, 05:52 AM
exfed2002 exfed2002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21/503 View Post
NYPD used to require their officers to be armed off-duty (Not sure if that's still the case).
Hasn't been that way for a long time.
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  #73  
Old 03-30-2016, 12:44 PM
Chief1297 Chief1297 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanEOD View Post
I am 56 this year and the few drinks that I had over 30yrs ago did not make me shoot straighter, did not make me drive better, did not make me dance better, did not make my jokes funnier, did not make me a better soldier, did not make me smarter, and did not make that steak taste any better.
Come on now...You know it made you dance better...
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  #74  
Old 04-25-2016, 05:36 PM
Blackpowderman Blackpowderman is offline
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I won't even go to the range or strap on a gun if I have had even one drink. Its a personal rule with me that I enforce on myself in order to NOT cause myself any problems period.
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