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  #26  
Old 02-07-2016, 11:26 AM
Gene Gillman Gene Gillman is offline
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Really if 45acp is not enough for the home,
12ga pump with 3"mag slugs, Not much more plus you can get.....
Gene
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  #27  
Old 02-07-2016, 11:48 AM
grendelbane grendelbane is offline
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If just talking about 1911 type pistols, +p is not a big deal.

Probably not necessary in .45 ACP, and might recoil a bit sharper in a lightweight gun, but not going to drastically wear the gun.

In .38 Super, there is almost no choice. Modern .38 Super cartridges are marked +p to differentiate them from the old .38 ACP cartridge, which is dimensionally identical. There is no .38 Super standard pressure cartridge produced, (though not all modern cartridges have the +p headstamp). +p in .38 Super really just means it is not a .38 ACP.

In 9mm, there is no problem. The 1911 types will easily handle those cartridges, though there may be a bit more recoil. As with the .45, standard pressure cartridges loaded with quality JHPs will usually work quite well.

So, in a 1911 type, you don't need +p, except for the .38 Super, where +p actually means it is standard pressure.

Confusing? Yes, but that is just the way it is. The place where +p makes the most sense is in the .38 Special. The .38 Special needs all of the help it can get. Even then, there are good standard pressure loads for those with alloy frame or very old guns.
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2016, 12:09 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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hah, i even shoot LR EFMJ ammo to take away the recoil that dblTap or +P yields.

in SD you want to give yourself every advantage you can, its like taking off 4oz of non-essential aluminum off of a indy car, because -4oz means less weight = slightly better. in SD, if you have to be in a gun fight (which is way different than pop pop done), the LR ammo gives you a tad more control given the stress level you'll be at.

w/o being under that stress level its hard to understand that LR ammo is of any benefit. but it will help you keep control when needed, etc.
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  #29  
Old 02-07-2016, 12:17 PM
GlenS GlenS is offline
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When I carrry a 45 ACP ...... +P or not?, I try to get a good hollow point bullet like Gold Dots or Hornady XTP's running at between 800 and 875 fps, prefer 850 fps. If that won't get the job done I don't know what will. To copy what other have said, I will use this pistol only to get me to my rifle or shotgun.
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  #30  
Old 02-07-2016, 02:21 PM
Gunsaleatthechurch Gunsaleatthechurch is offline
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For personal defense, i.e. 0'-21' established average distances, I don't see ANY reason to choose different than what local law enforcement uses. When applied in a defensive role, the LAST thing one needs in the heat of the moment is the thought of recoil mgmt.
I don't think 45+P was/is very popular in LEO depts across the country. One could always make the argument that +P is better suited in the winter time or in cold climates where individuals wear several layers of clothing or perhaps in rural areas where populations are relatively low and unfortunate encounters generally occur at greater distances as compared to city environments.

9mm standard pressure isn't as dramatic of a recoiling round as standard pressure 45-
+P in 9mm gets my vote. (+P+ 9mm, probably not as a regular carry round in most compact/sub compact frames)

For that 'trail' or hog gun we always hear people talking about, who knows what you might encounter out in the boondocks, +P or 10mil all the way!
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Last edited by Gunsaleatthechurch; 02-07-2016 at 02:51 PM.
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  #31  
Old 02-07-2016, 05:03 PM
Doug570 Doug570 is offline
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Nothing against +P in my 45's but think standard is fine. Use Federal Hydroshok as CCW ammo.
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  #32  
Old 02-07-2016, 07:08 PM
nogoodnamesleft nogoodnamesleft is offline
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+P makes more sense in short barrel guns.

In my 3" kimber, standard pressure .45 gets between 750 and 770 fps over the chrono. But HST 230 +P -- which gets 950 fps from a 5" -- gives me an honest 850 fps. I don't feel comfortable with 750 and much more comfortable with the 850.
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  #33  
Old 02-23-2016, 03:42 PM
Flfiremedic Flfiremedic is offline
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Well said Glen...when possible view a handgun as a backup to a long gun.
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  #34  
Old 02-23-2016, 07:49 PM
Rem 3200 Rem 3200 is offline
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In my 5" 1911A1 I use standard pressure 230 gr. Gold Dots.
In the 3" Kimber I do use +P, Barnes 180 gr. all copper.
Both guns seem to like the arrangement.
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  #35  
Old 02-24-2016, 09:02 AM
AZ Desertrat AZ Desertrat is offline
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I would think that most 1911's could handle an occasional does of +P....but I would not
recommend doing it all the time.
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  #36  
Old 02-24-2016, 09:19 AM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Desertrat View Post
I would think that most 1911's could handle an occasional does of +P....but I would not
recommend doing it all the time.
the term "+P" is kinda vague since it is a pressure range. really need to know the actual round. my dbl tap gold dot is just under +P, it hits really hard.

but in general, if you have 8 +P's in mag for SD carry, not likely your 1911 will ever see +P use, etc.
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  #37  
Old 02-24-2016, 11:54 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I just run standard velocity ammo out of my Colt .45 acps.

And that does what I want it to do. I could likely run .45 Super out of my S&W 45s without hurting them, if I wanted to. But if I need more power out of a hand gun. I will run one of my ten mils, or go to one of my magnum Wheel guns.
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  #38  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:08 PM
BillD BillD is offline
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" good enough for my use"

How would you know if you haven't put it to it's purposeful use yet?

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  #39  
Old 02-24-2016, 01:39 PM
Busa Dave Busa Dave is offline
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I do not run +p in any 1911. In my pistols I keep in vehicles and the house I run the +p+ but they are all Sig 226's.
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  #40  
Old 02-24-2016, 06:37 PM
230slugster 230slugster is offline
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I don't shoot +p regularly only because I can't afford it.

But I have shot some Underwood 185 grain +P 1200FPS GDHPs and those are smokin fast. Faster than the Federal HydraShok 185 grain +P 1150FPS by just a hair. The Underwood has a minuscule amount more of recoil...both have a super loud report. Both feel like shooting a 357 magnum out of a snubby.

I have yet to acquire some Federal HST 230 grain +P but I will soon. I carry standard pressure but more of collect JHPs.
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  #41  
Old 02-25-2016, 10:30 AM
GlenS GlenS is offline
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I really think Jeff Cooper was right about the 45 ACP and the 1911 pistol. 230 grain ball ammo has put down alot of bad guys. Getting hit with a single round of 230 grain ball ammo traveling at 850 FPS is going to do the job. Long ago when 45 ACP and 9MM were compared it was FMJ vs FMJ. 45 always won. Now comparing 2 9MM +P JHP to 45 ACP FMJ they are equal. But, just in case, I usually have 2-3 230 grain Gold Dots up front with the rest of thahg mag plus two spare mags with 230 FML ammo. That should get the job done.

And, I do carry a Glock 19 Gen4 with 124 grain +P GoldDots and one spare mag with the same. I feel well armed either way.
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  #42  
Old 02-25-2016, 01:12 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenS View Post
I... But, just in case, I usually have 2-3 230 grain Gold Dots up front with the rest of thahg mag plus two spare mags with 230 FML ammo. That should get the job done.
so you stack your live mag with different ammo? i do the same, but i have dbl tap JHP up front with some federal EFMJ that follows.

Last edited by 1911_Kid; 02-25-2016 at 01:15 PM.
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  #43  
Old 02-25-2016, 01:40 PM
wormraper wormraper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenS View Post
I really think Jeff Cooper was right about the 45 ACP and the 1911 pistol. 230 grain ball ammo has put down alot of bad guys. Getting hit with a single round of 230 grain ball ammo traveling at 850 FPS is going to do the job. Long ago when 45 ACP and 9MM were compared it was FMJ vs FMJ. 45 always won. Now comparing 2 9MM +P JHP to 45 ACP FMJ they are equal. But, just in case, I usually have 2-3 230 grain Gold Dots up front with the rest of thahg mag plus two spare mags with 230 FML ammo. That should get the job done.

And, I do carry a Glock 19 Gen4 with 124 grain +P GoldDots and one spare mag with the same. I feel well armed either way.
in some of my .45's I use an every other method. first one is JHP, second one is FMJ and alternate down the mag.
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  #44  
Old 03-12-2016, 07:09 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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I go along with this line of thinking from Chickenthief below:

"If you feel the need for +P+ then you just might have selected to small a caliber/cartridge for your needs?

If you feel the need for 380 +P+ go for 9mm
If you feel the need for 9mm+P+ then go for 38super
If you feel the need for 38 super +P+ go for 357MAG (loads of 8 shot wheelguns and pistols in 357MAG)
If the 45ACP is to feeble go for a 460Rowland

If you need more than that, then the Desert Eagle in 44MAG and 50AE are your thing.
They even make a revolver in 45-70 if the bastards are way to big in your neighbourhood!"


I also understand that bigger calibers most of the time require bigger and heavier guns. This may be the tipping point for some that carry all the time. A 357 wheelgun loaded with any standard SD ammo in the nightstand hardly needs to have +P stuffed in it. To each his own, no offense to anyone, but I do like the idea of carrying around a 45-70 revolver in my sock!
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  #45  
Old 03-12-2016, 08:35 AM
nogoodnamesleft nogoodnamesleft is offline
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To each his own, no offense to anyone, but I do like the idea of carrying around a 45-70 revolver in my sock!
Your screen name is a perfect compliment to this sentiment
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  #46  
Old 03-13-2016, 11:52 AM
R0CKETMAN R0CKETMAN is offline
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My preferred carry ammo in 45 is Federal LE45T1 which is a bonded bullet.

Unfortunately it's only available in +p
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  #47  
Old 03-13-2016, 12:44 PM
Kosh75287 Kosh75287 is offline
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My carry/practice/competition load is 4.2 - 4.4/Promo/225 TC or 230LRN. It's probably 50 - 75 f/s short of ball ammo ballistics. Every animate thing I've shot with it has gone DRT after the first round.

Even the comparatively anemic 185 gr. FMJSWC match ammo, launched at 765 f/s, has plenty of capacity to stop a determined attack with one or two solid hits to the torso. The need for better ballistics from the .45 ACP is far less pressing to me than the need for better controllability. I don't find factory ball objectionable, but I'm certainly a better shot with my reloads.

For the 9mm, the dynamics are exactly the opposite. Superb controllability, so-so stopping power. I use 5.8/Herco/125 gr. LRNFP for practice, and bump the powder charge to 6.2 for social work. I'm not convinced I could tell the two loads apart, if I shot them blindfolded, but the heavier load tends to penetrate slightly better. I think I could go to 6.4/Herco without stretching anything, but 6.2/Herco is where "it all comes together" for me in 9mm.
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  #48  
Old 03-13-2016, 04:08 PM
MrPeanut MrPeanut is offline
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Anytime you do something that is NOT in your owner's manual, you are a test pilot. What can go wrong?
^^^^This.
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  #49  
Old 03-14-2016, 09:26 PM
onespeedbiker onespeedbiker is offline
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The history of the +p standard started (I believe) with the 38 Super round that has the same demintions as the old 38 ACP, but needs a stronger gun because of the increased pressure, so the rounds were marked with a +p. Further in 1972 there was an across the board reduction of hand gun ammo by around 10% by the manufacturers. These ammo makers still made the 10% higher ammo, labeling it +p (this was likely so the standard ammo could be used in legacy firearms). +p+ is unregulated, so you have to trust the +p+ ammo manufacturer knows enough not to blow up your gun. So +p is safe in most modern guns, but they will wear out your gun faster with a steady diet, but you'll likely still get 10,000s of +p rounds through your modern gun with no obvious increased wear.

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 03-14-2016 at 09:37 PM.
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  #50  
Old 03-15-2016, 09:46 AM
me1911 me1911 is offline
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"[+P makes more sense in short barrel guns....]"


My thoughts too. The only other instance I would use +P is if it demonstrated much better expansion yet equal or better penetration vs standard loads. I want the biggest wound channel and wound volume I can get. I would primarily use it for EDC and sparingly at the range. Currently I use no +P loads. Although I'm tempted to try it in my wife's new Sig P-938.


Tom

Last edited by me1911; 03-15-2016 at 09:49 AM.
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