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  #26  
Old 05-21-2011, 06:38 AM
MotorSeven MotorSeven is offline
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Ahhh, thanks Tim, I had read that before( a year or two), but was not putting 2 & 2 together.....senility starts early.
  #27  
Old 05-21-2011, 09:45 AM
gkos59 gkos59 is offline
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There are some nice pics including one of the VIZ in this thread.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=317162
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Last edited by gkos59; 05-21-2011 at 12:12 PM.
  #28  
Old 05-21-2011, 01:03 PM
Joe C Joe C is offline
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Tim, Gkos59, thanks for posting the threads on the VIZ. I do appreciate how folks here pitch in when a guy is working or sleeping and help out!

MotorSeven, keeping in mind that my write up says "can cause" not "will cause" is important. What are the possibilities of the legs breaking off on the Ruger? I have no idea. What I do know is I have seen it happen on both stock springers and colts over the years as well as a couple of guns built by "name" guys. Could it be a fluke? Sure. Is it worth taking a chance with? Not in my opinion, especially considering it is a relatively easy fix.

As to your question about what would I fix, I'm glad you asked. After I get to the range, hopefully today since the monsoon has finally stopped here, I will commence to correcting things as I see fit and will post a complete list of said corrections here for all to see. Most of it is minor stuff like correcting the ejector, extractor, trigger job, spring replacements, issues like that. But first, I want to shoot it outta the box as we say and just see what will and won't work.

Respectfully,
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  #29  
Old 05-22-2011, 08:53 AM
armedinAz armedinAz is offline
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Joe, thanks for your efforts. I linked this thread over on rugerforum.com and it got comments from "see, the gun is crap" to "he says it's a good gun for the money".

If you wouldn't mind a couple of questions:

1. What motivated you to do this with the Ruger?

2. Have you done similar measurements to other production 1911s and how did they compare?

3. Is there an ideal production gun spec compared to your custom Camp Perry level spec?

thanks again
Jeff
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  #30  
Old 05-22-2011, 09:09 AM
Amsdorf Amsdorf is offline
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Joe's review was interesting. It proved the SR1911 is not a custom 1911 that costs thousands of dollars.

As for what the SR1911 can do out of the box, here is a thread here's another thread where a guy posted results from 100 yards and from 25 yards.

Click here.

Here's a pic of his results at 24 yards. I don't know about you, but that's plenty accurate enough for me from a $600 1911.



Joe's review, frankly, just kind of proved what anyone would know, hopefully, without breaking out the measuring devices. The SR1911 is not a custom 1911 that costs thousands of dollars.

So, thank you Joe for the great job on the review. B

Last edited by Amsdorf; 05-22-2011 at 09:26 AM.
  #31  
Old 05-22-2011, 09:22 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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While I would not endeavor to speak for a man of his talent at the bench, I can tell you why I read what he had to say with interest. There seems to be a great deal of hoopla and fanfare over every new 1911 that arrives on the scene at a reasonable price point and x vs y comparisons based upon little more than bias and cosmetics.

A soldier or a civilian marksman has less interest in external appearance and repeating myths. He has an interest in accuracy and reliability in the field. Now one can take a ugly duckling base gun and turn it into a work of art to ones personal standards. However, has the mechanics of the gun really changed as a result of a cosmetic makeover?
  #32  
Old 05-22-2011, 11:05 AM
Joe C Joe C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armedinAz View Post
Joe, thanks for your efforts. I linked this thread over on rugerforum.com and it got comments from "see, the gun is crap" to "he says it's a good gun for the money".

If you wouldn't mind a couple of questions:

1. What motivated you to do this with the Ruger?

2. Have you done similar measurements to other production 1911s and how did they compare?

3. Is there an ideal production gun spec compared to your custom Camp Perry level spec?

thanks again
Jeff
Jeff,

To be honest with you, I wish I could do this to more stock guns. Unfortunately, I don't have the cash to purchase every stock gun that comes out to review. Now if someone wanted to send in say a RIA, Springer, Colt and a R1 for me to review and compare (without having previously modified them) I would be glad to do it just so people could see the differences, because there are differences in my opinion and experience. And if there is an "industry standard" for "stock" guns I have not seen it as they all tend to vary a great deal from my experience. Right now I have a new Para GI in the shop that I'm thinking about doing just because...

My motivation to do the Ruger was one of pure curiosity really. As mentioned in the review, I've seen pretty much every maker of stock 1911's across my bench in the past four years and most semi-custom and many custom guns as well. I guess it was just a thing of, "well, let's just see what Ruger brings to the table..."

I do have a lot of specs on other stock guns I have reviewed and worked on over the years but never published them mostly due to time...but also, quiet frankly, it has been my experience that lots of people generally don't really what to know what they have and I TRY not to offend people, although sometimes it happens, especially when you post specs and they are different than what people believe or perceive about their guns... And that is why I did not say the Ruger is better than this or that particular brand in my review although I do have my personal feelings...and will keep those to private verbal conversations. ;-)

Is there a ideal production gun spec? I think there could be, yes. Are most major makers willing to listen and do so? Not likely. And that is o.k. It keeps guys like myself and many of the other fine smiths on here working.

And finally, I did go over to the Rugerforum.com site and read what was written. Thanks for letting me know it was over there...and tell REV that if he is willing to pay for my time, ammo and materials I'd be glad to do what he suggested to a stock gun (evaluating and building it in stages over time) but it might be an expensive education for him.

Thank you for your questions and for reading the review.

Respectfully,
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  #33  
Old 05-22-2011, 11:50 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Joe:

I have a couple of stock guns that I would be willing to lend to the cause of science if you are so inclined. Now they do have added ambis and trigger shoe changes but no changes that would alter the important stuff you address. No barrels, bushings, ignition parts, or alterations to frame and slide interface. Naturally, I would not want this to interfere with your full time work.
  #34  
Old 05-22-2011, 11:58 AM
Joe C Joe C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuntaro View Post
Joe:

I have a couple of stock guns that I would be willing to lend to the cause of science if you are so inclined. Now they do have added ambis and trigger shoe changes but no changes that would alter the important stuff you address. No barrels, bushings, ignition parts, or alterations to frame and slide interface. Naturally, I would not want this to interfere with your full time work.
Hmmm...we might just have ourselves a little bit of an experimental project here! Whatcha got sir? I wouldn't mind doing the write ups so that people can see and compare the numbers...as long as they keep in mind that what we are doing is measuring ONE example of said guns and that while it can give a decent representation of what a person can expect from an off the shelf version of that model, it may or may not be representative of others of the same make and model as some do leave better than others and vice versa.

Now all we have to do is get someone to help pay the shipping for all this experimentation! Surely someone would like to help us out considering you are providing the guns and I am providing the time.

Respectfully,
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  #35  
Old 05-22-2011, 01:29 PM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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In the unaltered, non worked over variety I have a colt, a R1, a kimber ( 38 super) and a Taurus. A little something for all except the Springfield and phillipino varieties of the non " custom " crowd. Folks could vote with their donations in shipping dollars. First gun that reaches shipping and insurance gets to go under the magnifier first.

The one of sample is an important point but at least they will be random instead of submitted by a factory for a gun magazine test.
  #36  
Old 05-22-2011, 07:41 PM
Joe C Joe C is offline
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Shot the Ruger today...report coming tonight...

Respectfully,
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  #37  
Old 05-22-2011, 08:02 PM
New_World New_World is offline
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great review.
thank you for your input!
I would love to own one of these.
still deciding on whats going to be my 1st 1911!
  #38  
Old 05-22-2011, 09:20 PM
hufen hufen is offline
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Joe, I am still waiting for my 2 SR1911s to get here. Got them both at $600 a piece w/ Tax. I was wondering if you do custom work on them? If I were to send it to you, could you do work on it? I'm not as much interested in match grade accuracy as I am in in making it as reliable as can be. I'll be carrying this one, and I want it to go bang no matter what. Shoot me a PM if you can, and maybe what you would suggest having done, as well as a rough estimate of price.

Thanks! And thanks for the review too. I'm hating waiting to get my hands on one. I've ordered so much damn stuff for it, and I don't even have the gun, haha
  #39  
Old 05-22-2011, 11:42 PM
Joe C Joe C is offline
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Range Report Ruger SR1911

Well, it finally dried out enough to go to the range today. Just so happens that a friend of mine wanted to go also. He has never shot a 1911 before in his life. So I thought, well, this will be good. Let someone who is totally a novice at the 1911 have a spin at a gun to see if THEY can get it to malfunction by limp wristing, jerking, or whatever...the results were astonishing...

First off I'm going to list the bullets and or loads that were shot out of this gun. This is not necessarily the order as at times we were shooting whatever our hands could get hold of to put into the mags. I will say that the pricey self defense stuff was shot by me in an order and manner in which I have experienced it would most likely cause malfunctions. I will also mention that the SR1911 I purchased came with one seven and one eight round mag.

- 230g ball Armscorp factory load (1999ish)
- 200g Cast LSWC 5.8g Unique
- 185g Star swagged LHPWC 3.8g CLAYS
- 200 Sierra FP 6.0 W231
- 185g Zero JHP 4.1 Clays
- 185g Nosler JHP Atlanta Arms Load
- 230g Sierra HP CorBon Factory Load
- 185g Starfire HP Factory Load
- 185g (?) Winchester Silvertip HP Factory Load
- 185g Cast LSWC TZZ (old milsurp load with short button nose bullet)
- 200g Speer Gold Dot Factory Load

In all, 225 rounds were fired in about 30 minutes. In total there were 11 different loads with 10 different bullet types tried. There was not one, and I mean not even a single solitary malfunction. Not when I put it in the hands of the newbie, not when I shot the softest wad loads I use (the 185g Star LSHP 3.8 CLAYS), not when I shot it sideways, upside down, soft handed or off the bench...it just ran and ran and ran.

Now, that being said, I will be the first to admit that 225 rounds is not that many. However, putting 11 different types of ammo through it of all different nose types and o.a.l.'s is something that I have seen many other stock production, semi-custom and even custom guns choke on while trying to handle. Honestly, I was shocked...and impressed...and for those of you that really know me, you know that is pretty hard to do.

This is not to say that the potential issues I listed in the initial review are not relevant. The slide stop nose and mag catch nose are still bumping which does affect accuracy. The extractor is still mis-fit, in my opinion, as is the ejector. The slide to frame is still loose side to side and etc. What it is to say is that this gun, out of the box, functioned with 225 rounds of 11 different loads and that is a good thing.

Ejection: It was consistent with ball...6-7 feet at 5:00 from the shooter. With the self defense loads it was rather wild and all over which indicates a need, in my opinion, to tune the ejector and extractor a bit. With the soft loads it just dribbled them out of the gun and onto my feet, which is pretty normal when a gun sprung as this one was actually functions with them.

The trigger: Ah, the trigger, yes, that funny little thing that can change on a whim if you are not careful. It went from being a VERY crisp 4lbs 14oz with a slight tick from time to time at the beginning to being a looong roll of just over 4lbs by the time we were done. This is the way I would expect a trigger with .026" hammer hooks and little to no relief on the sear to feel. It actually doesn't feel bad, but it is long! And this is pretty much what I expected to happen when I shot it as I knew that the fire control parts would mate together over time.

Accuracy, well, ya. I shot it off the bench at 25 yards with both my accuracy hand loads of 185g Zero HP 4.1 CLAYS (a load that has consistently given me 10 shot groups of less than 1.5" at 50 yards out of custom built and re-built guns) and with a test load that I got from Atlanta Arms that has tested sub 1.300" 10 shot groups at 50 yards in many guns. Both targets were ten shots in wind that was about 20-25mph from left to right. The sights on this pistol need to be adjusted a bit but the groups off the rest were around 4-5". Considering the wind, as it was blowing the target and me pretty wildly, I don't think this is terribly bad and is certainly not out of line with what I have seen from other stock production guns. Although, I think that with better conditions it could shoot better. I did have one 5 shot group during a lull that went into 2.5" with the AA ammo.

Overall, I was and am impressed with this gun out of the box. I'm not going to bother shooting it another couple of hundred rounds to see if it will fail. Instead I'm going to modify the things that I feel need to be fixed and sell it as my work with this particular piece is done for now. I hope it was as educational for you as the reader as it was for me as the smith. I personally would have no hesitation in purchasing one of these Ruger SR1911's at this time to shoot, enjoy and maybe even fix up for an everyday carry around gun if I was looking for something on a budget or just wanted something that was less expensive for outdoor use. It is, in my opinion at this time, an excellent value for the money.

Thank you for reading, leaving your comments and feedback and supporting all of us smiths in what we do for a living.

Respectfully,
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  #40  
Old 05-23-2011, 12:44 AM
hufen hufen is offline
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Oh boy! I am quite pleased that I purchased two of these babies now. Thank you for getting back to me and becoming my FB friend (lol!). Thanks again for the wonderful review and I am anxiously looking forward to hearing from you regarding some work on my sr1911's. I really like what I've read of yours and seen on your website, and I think I'd be quite pleased with getting you to work on mine.
  #41  
Old 05-23-2011, 01:04 AM
TheNewbie TheNewbie is offline
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Are you still planning on making a list of changes that need to be made? How do you think this weapon would hold up to duty use?

Thanks so much for you awesome report and spending your time doing it!
  #42  
Old 05-23-2011, 07:09 AM
cdmillion cdmillion is offline
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Sr1911

Thank you Mr. Chambers. Funny how the Universe works, was wondering what a gunsmith would do to a box stock production gun, like the SR1911 and wham, you and this forum hit it out of the park. Thank you
  #43  
Old 05-23-2011, 11:46 AM
gkos59 gkos59 is offline
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Thanks for all the good reporting, Joe. I can't believe that I don't have to pay for this stuff.
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  #44  
Old 05-23-2011, 12:11 PM
Spammy_H Spammy_H is offline
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Joe C,

How would you say that this gun's manufacture, fit and finish compare to a Springfield Loaded?

Just curious, because the specs seem pretty similar.
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  #45  
Old 05-23-2011, 04:21 PM
Joe C Joe C is offline
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First of all, thank you guys for your responses. I am glad that you have enjoyed what was written and I am glad it may help some of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
Are you still planning on making a list of changes that need to be made? How do you think this weapon would hold up to duty use?...
I will post the list of changes made after I make them and shoot the gun again. I think it would probably be just as serviceable as other guns in it's class if the proper adjustments were made, but that's just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spammy_H View Post
Joe C,

How would you say that this gun's manufacture, fit and finish compare to a Springfield Loaded?

Just curious, because the specs seem pretty similar.
Spammy_H, I may at some point do this kind of evaluation to other makers stock guns. Until then I will leave the compare and contrast to specific brands can of worms alone. What I will say is that I personally would not feel short changed by owning this Ruger.

Respectfully,
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  #46  
Old 05-24-2011, 07:04 AM
gunman42782 gunman42782 is offline
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Can't wait to own one! It should go nicely with my Colt and Kimber!
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  #47  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:47 AM
pj1843 pj1843 is offline
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Thank you sir for your review, it pushed me over the edge to make this purchase. It has been one of the most well written and well thought out reviews i have ever read.

Also just a question, 1 out 10 what would you rate this gun for its price category?

And one last thing im looking froward to seeing what you are going to do to this firearm to make it better.
  #48  
Old 05-26-2011, 07:52 AM
SemperFi1977m SemperFi1977m is offline
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Joe, thank you for all the time and effort you put into this review! I caught the first half on 1911Pro, and was pleased to see more added when I stumbled upon it here today.

I own and have owned 1911's, but the Ruger will be my first brand new 1911! I placed an order on the 15th even before seeing your reviews. After reading the reviews, I feel even happier about the SR1911 being my first brand new one. Cant wait to get it!

Thanks again Joe
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  #49  
Old 05-26-2011, 09:40 AM
hankfan79 hankfan79 is offline
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Nice review.

I do have one question.
After reading your measurements about the sights, do this mean that sights with a "standard" Novak cut WILL NOT fit?
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  #50  
Old 05-26-2011, 05:42 PM
Jim in Bedford IN Jim in Bedford IN is offline
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Question on VIS

Joe,
When I saw your comments on the VIS and then read the thread "Neat things about the Ruger SR1911" by KenMays, I saw a good picture of the VIS in his post. It looks to have a good amount of relief cut on the face with a bow tie. Did your gun also look like this but still measure out as inadequate based on your measurements? What is the required depth? Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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