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  #1  
Old 02-07-2007, 12:20 PM
Ron H. Ron H. is offline
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Hitting to the left?

Greetings, all:

Need a little help. My groups are always off to the left of point of aim. The groups aren't large, just off to the left. This happens with my own 1911s (Colt, Kimber, Les Baer) and other people's, and when other people shoot my 1911s, the shots go to center. I do it when shooting one-handed and two-handed, and it seems most pronounced when I'm shooting a gun with an extended thumb safety. I keep my thumb on top of the safety.

Clearly I'm doing something wrong here. Any ideas?

Thanks, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2007, 12:46 PM
eljay45 eljay45 is offline
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Try this
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Last edited by eljay45; 04-26-2007 at 05:54 PM.
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  #3  
Old 02-07-2007, 12:48 PM
eljay45 eljay45 is offline
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Or this if you are left handed
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Last edited by eljay45; 04-26-2007 at 05:54 PM.
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2007, 12:51 PM
Bison Bison is offline
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This almost certainly has to do with trigger control. Make sure you are squeezing the trigger in a fashion that causes it to come straight back as opposed to pulling your shot to the left. Dry firing will help this because you can watch what the front sight does without the disturbance of recoil. If, when you pull the trigger, your front sight moves to the left - even just a bit - you've found your problem.

Someone once posted a diagram that depicted point of impact and the error that may cause the impact to be other than where the shooter was aiming. It was a very helpful document, though I can't seem to put my hands on it right now. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? If so, please provide a link.
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2007, 12:52 PM
Bison Bison is offline
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Wow, in the time it took me to write that last post, folks already put their hands on the diagram I mentioned that I couldn't find. Well done, folks.
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2007, 03:12 PM
PursuitFRC PursuitFRC is offline
 
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I would also add to that diagram for correcting left hits for a right handed shooter the mistake of gripping too hard with the right hand. Overgripping with the right hand, or gripping AS you press the trigger can cause the gun to hit left. If changing where your trigger finger sits on the trigger doesn't work, try loosening your right hand, and tightening your left.


Edit for additional: I would also say that left hits don't always indicate too little trigger finger, but too much trigger finger.
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2007, 07:06 PM
Ron H. Ron H. is offline
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Gentlemen, thanks for the input. I think "gripping too hard" may be the problem--I do tend to really clamp down on the gun. I'll experiment with that next range trip. Dry-firing at home, a more relaxed grip seems to keep the front sight centered, whereas my usual "gorilla grip" seems to make the front sight just barely twitch to the left. I may also try shooting "thumb low" (off the safety) to see if that makes any difference.

Re the chart, I should have mentioned that I have a copy of it here at home, and it doesn't seem to help with this problem. I've tried different finger placement on the trigger, from just the fingertip, to the center of the pad, to the first knuckle--all with no apparent difference in point of impact.

Thanks again, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2007, 11:29 PM
FLL1911 FLL1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PursuitFRC
I would also add to that diagram for correcting left hits for a right handed shooter the mistake of gripping too hard with the right hand. Overgripping with the right hand, or gripping AS you press the trigger can cause the gun to hit left. If changing where your trigger finger sits on the trigger doesn't work, try loosening your right hand, and tightening your left.

Edit for additional: I would also say that left hits don't always indicate too little trigger finger, but too much trigger finger.
Usually this is the most common cause for hitting left (and usually low). Equal pressure on both sides of the grip from the left and right hand while loosen a little bit the right hand fingers helps correcting it. Todd Jarrett can describe the proper grip better than I can.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2007, 06:28 PM
SDlocal SDlocal is offline
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tight grip

I had this exact issue and I death grip it with my right hand. I have relaxed it and it helped tremendously. To improve overall trigger skills I shoot groups at blank pieces of paper I am not trying to hit anything like a bullseye. Once you shoot clover leaf groups at 7 yards then move out to 10 and so on....good luck.
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2007, 09:37 AM
bdutton bdutton is offline
 
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WAIT!!!

You may not be doing ANYTHING wrong at all.

Everybody is different. Some people are tall and others short. Some people have large hands and others small.

YOU shoot the way you do because that is YOU. I may pick up someone elses gun and shot it differently (stance, grip, angle, etc...) and I will group differently.

If I put my gun in a ransom rest and fire ten rounds in a group at 50 yards, I guarantee you that when I put that gun in my hand it will group DIFFERENTLY. Why? Because I am not a ransom rest. Just as you are not someone else.

You want to 'fix' your problem? Try adjusting a few clicks to the right.

EDIT:

Let me add this...

You need to call your shots. If you sense the sites are aligned properly and you see the target center as the gun goes bang then notice that the shot hit left you know that the problem is a sight adjustment issue.

You may want to have someone setup a video camera on a tripod and film your grip closeup. Then replay the footage in slow motion and see if you notice any anomaly in the grip or trigger pull.

Last edited by bdutton; 02-16-2007 at 09:48 AM.
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  #11  
Old 02-19-2007, 01:54 PM
Ron H. Ron H. is offline
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Gentlemen, thanks for the input. I went to the range yesterday to test some of these ideas.

Relaxing my grip did pretty much eliminate the low shots. They're still out to the left, though. Thumb high or thumb low makes no difference--groups are still out to the left. Using different parts of the trigger finger, from the very tip to the first knuckle and everywhere in between, made no difference--groups are still out to the left. I do call my shots (competitive rifle shooter), and I know when I've made a bad one.

Someone mentioned in another thread that thin grip panels make him hit to the left, and I wonder if that may be what I have going on. My Baer and Kimber both have very thin grip panels, TRS on the Baer and McCormick on the Kimber. My buddy's Baer (which I also hit left with) also has thin McCormick grips. Is it possible that those thin grips just don't agree with my hand? They feel fine, but I don't recall hitting left with standard grip panels. I have about medium sized hands.

Does this seem plausible? Has anyone here run into this before? I do have standard grip panels I can swap on to test the theory.

Thanks again, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2007, 02:27 PM
Taxvictim Taxvictim is offline
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Have you tried aiming more to the right?


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  #13  
Old 02-19-2007, 04:46 PM
FLL1911 FLL1911 is offline
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My 2 cents:
I am not sure. Thin grips should give you more trigger finger, and the end result would be shooting to the right, not to the left, which is usually associated with too little trigger finger, but you have mentioned you have tried it. I am guessing you are still holding the grip too tight and / or the line of sight is not in straight line with the barrel, or another possibility, the pressure on the grip from the left hand is greater than the pressure from the right hand.

To figure it out from a friend of mine with similar problem, I asked him to hold the gun as it should be, but not letting the right little finger touching the front grip and with minimal pressure from the next finger too. The little finger would point forward (this was just a test). This forced him two things: less grip from the right hand, and more grip from the left hand on the side of the grip panel. After a few shots he was hitting the center of the target, knowing how much pressure he should apply from each hand (the little finger got back to the normal grip position).

Hope this helps,
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2007, 05:02 PM
bdutton bdutton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron H.
Gentlemen, thanks for the input. I went to the range yesterday to test some of these ideas.

Relaxing my grip did pretty much eliminate the low shots. They're still out to the left, though. Thumb high or thumb low makes no difference--groups are still out to the left. Using different parts of the trigger finger, from the very tip to the first knuckle and everywhere in between, made no difference--groups are still out to the left. I do call my shots (competitive rifle shooter), and I know when I've made a bad one.

<snip>
Ron H.
So... you are able to call your shots but to the left. Meaning you are pulling the trigger when the sight alignment is to the left of the intended impact area.

This sounds like a lack of trigger control.

'Mashing' the trigger might be the problem. You are applying pressure on all the fingers of the hand as you increase pressure on the trigger.

Try this: Hold your relaxed fist out in front of you and squeeze all the fingers at once and you will see a distinct movement to the left. Now squeeze and hold all your fist out in front of you and pretend you are pulling the trigger careful to not change the pressure on your other fingers. You should see no movement of the fists direction.

This is what you should try to emulate when shooting your pistol.

Next time at the range... make a concerted effort to shoot one shot at a time focusing on not allowing the sight alignment to be disturbed by the movement of the trigger finger.
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  #15  
Old 02-19-2007, 06:11 PM
Gene 53 Gene 53 is offline
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Try rotating your stance to the right. Try this assume your stance with your eyes closed. Keep your eyes closed and raise your gun to shooting position,open your eyes without moving see where your gun is pointing. correct with your feet.
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  #16  
Old 02-19-2007, 07:28 PM
jhe888 jhe888 is offline
 
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Did you vote for John Kerry? That could explain it.

Shoot the gun from the bench. If it still hits left, then adjust the sights. If it doesn't, then you may want to adjust your technique a bit. Still, if your technique isn't just screwball, you may just tend to shoot a little more to the left. Adjust your sights. Different people do shoot to different points of impact.
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  #17  
Old 02-19-2007, 07:36 PM
Mike'sgooddeal Mike'sgooddeal is offline
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Try having a good range officer or firearms instructor watch you shooting. Once you've elminated grip, trigger and stance there remains other possibilities:

Are you left eye dominant and shooting right handed (or vice-versa)? This is less rare than it may sound. I am aware of four shooters in our fifteen man department that have this problem. Try covering your left eye with a playing card (slip it behind your shooting glasses) and shooting some groups with only one eye. If this seems to help, there are other ways to diagnose this more accurately and you cen research how to "cure" this.

Have you had your eyes checked? Astigmatism shifts reality. If you already wear glasses and have an astigmatism, you have to look through the center of your glasses when looking down the sights. Having your head turned or lowered causes you to look through a different spot on your glasses and can magnify the effect.

Don't give up, try to limit your frustration and enjoy your range time.
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  #18  
Old 02-19-2007, 10:13 PM
Ron H. Ron H. is offline
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Gents, thanks again--good food for thought here. I'll try these ideas dry-firing at home and on the next range trip. I also know a couple bullseye guys who went distinguished with the .45, so I'll see if they're up for some coaching.

Thanks again, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
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  #19  
Old 02-20-2007, 06:27 AM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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Seen that Todd Jarrett video, where he discusses using only the pad of the finger, vice the first joint?

Look for it on youtube....nice video
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