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  #1  
Old 05-20-2017, 07:54 PM
RustyOK RustyOK is offline
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Not all case gauges are created equal...!!!

So I was able to head about an hour and a half north of me to visit another member of this forum that not only reloads but he also produces his own bullets. I won't mention his name because I don't have that permission. I spent several hours with this man picking his brain and learning about his operation. I was in awe the hole time. I took a box of 45ACP that I had loaded, so he could look at and give me some opinions and help. I told him to not hold back and tell me everything I was doing wrong. He quickly pointed out a couple of my mistakes and started helping me to understand the process a bit better. (If I tried, I couldn't learn everything he knows in my lifetime). To make a long story short......I was not crimping enough. I was leaving a little (slight) bell to the case. He asked me if I dropped my rounds in a case guage, in which I relied that I did. I even dropped a sample in my gun barrel. He took his case guage and my round got stuck about half way in. My case guage is a "Lyman" and I'll be throwing it in the trash.

At the end of the visit, we were shooting on his range and drinking some great coffee that his wife made. I have been truly blessed with some good people on this board. I can't think him enough for everything he as done for me. A MILLON THANKS MY FRIEND.
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:13 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is offline
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So what kind of gage did he use?
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:17 PM
gtrpickr gtrpickr is offline
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Which case gauge did he have? I just started reloading and bought a Hornady gauge to check my rounds.
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:18 PM
RustyOK RustyOK is offline
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Originally Posted by Timbo3 View Post
So what kind of gage did he use?
The gage he used was from Dillon. Obviously tighter tolerances.
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:24 PM
gtrpickr gtrpickr is offline
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might just have to look into getting a Dillon gauge, I almost bought a Dillon but the Hornady one was on sale.
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:03 PM
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Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
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This is why gauges are almost worthless.

You have a barrel. Use it.
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:42 PM
TucsonDirt TucsonDirt is offline
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Ok, I'm not a reloader but I have to ask- why would case gauges by different manufacturers be so different?
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:44 PM
Alland Alland is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonDirt View Post
Ok, I'm not a reloader but I have to ask- why would case gauges by different manufacturers be so different?
Most chamber diameter dimensions have a +.004" tolerance. Any case gauge
in that window would be considered within SAAMI specs.

I think I solved that problem by making my own case gauges using the same chamber reamer that I used to ream the barrels in my guns.
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  #9  
Old 05-20-2017, 10:56 PM
diadem diadem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
This is why gauges are almost worthless.

You have a barrel. Use it.
A little overstatement right….

They are a tool like anything else. A case gage can only be worthless if you don’t know what size it is and how it compares to your barrel(s)
Having to pull your barrel every time you want to make some rounds is silly. What if you have many barrels? You need to measure your gage and your chambers. It’s no different than calibrating any other piece of measuring equipment you have. You wouldn’t use a scale without calibrating it, would you?

I know my gage is about .001 smaller than my chambers. If it passes the gage, it will shoot in all my chambers. I am using a Lyman that measures .477 If you have doubts about your chamber or barrels measure with a caliper to get the range and then buy a few pin gages a couple thousandths above and below. You can pick them up on eBay for $2 to $7 each.
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2017, 05:05 AM
ClarkEMyers ClarkEMyers is offline
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Notice too that there are case gages intended to check OAL and headspace. Sometimes to check head to shoulder for bottle neck cases.

Then there are cartridge gages intended to check loaded ammunition. Pays to be sure the intended purposes for a gage in hand.
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2017, 05:29 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Case gauges and cartridge gauges....

The term case gauge is often used to mean a "cartridge gauge" which is what most 1911 or handgun shooters use it for.....to make sure the rounds will pass "the plunk test."

I have a 7 hole cartridge gauge from EGW for my 9mm guns. I check every round before I shoot a local match, and I have never had an issue with a "bulged round" since I will find it with the cartridge/case gauge. The range where I practice also hosts USPSA matches, and sometimes a person that shoots 9mm major may have slightly bulged brass, which I may pick up after I practice....thinking it was my brass.....

As long as I check my reloads with my 7-hole case gauge, I never have issues with my ammo failing to function properly.....
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2017, 06:00 AM
Laudanum Laudanum is offline
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Dont throw the gauges out, just learn their limitations.

I think i know who you visited. Only going by the forum and private messages, as i dont know him personally, but definitely seems like a good man and certainly knowledgeable.
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:01 AM
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I case gauge every round I make, I also know that almost every one that fails my gauge will plunk and twist in my barrels and at what point a failure to gauge needs to be checked in a real barrel for the ultimate test.

A case gauge is a useful tool but they are not go, no go gauges.
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:28 AM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apipeguy View Post
I case gauge every round I make, I also know that almost every one that fails my gauge will plunk and twist in my barrels and at what point a failure to gauge needs to be checked in a real barrel for the ultimate test.

A case gauge is a useful tool but they are not go, no go gauges.
How many rounds a year do you reload? Case gauging thousands of rounds seems kind of OCDish to me!!
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:29 AM
flechero flechero is offline
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you are fortunate!

Great experience- As someone who had to learn it the long way and fight through some early learning curve issues- let me also extend a thank you to the unnamed gent that helped you out. He is surely a class act!
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:45 AM
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apipeguy apipeguy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterGC View Post
How many rounds a year do you reload? Case gauging thousands of rounds seems kind of OCDish to me!!
At least 10,000 on a single stage and yes you are correct. Crimp, drop in gauge, drop in 100 round MTM case.
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  #17  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:15 AM
TucsonDirt TucsonDirt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alland View Post
Most chamber diameter dimensions have a +.004" tolerance. Any case gauge
in that window would be considered within SAAMI specs.

I think I solved that problem by making my own case gauges using the same chamber reamer that I used to ream the barrels in my guns.
Ok thanks, I always learn good stuff here.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:34 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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I am curious to know what the actual caliper reading was on the round that stuck halfway down that gentlemans guage. You mentioned "not enough crimp". When I pause my loading process to verify that all is well, I measure OAL, case diameter at the crimp, drop in a case guage and check powder charge. My caliper gets used more than anything else for "quick check" purposes.
Glad you made a new friend! Friends with wisdom are awesome!
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2017, 01:26 PM
frogfurr frogfurr is offline
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What would cause a reloading press to load a round that fails the case gauge test? When a round fails the gauge test what's out of tolerance?
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:43 PM
Alland Alland is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogfurr View Post
What would cause a reloading press to load a round that fails the case gauge test? When a round fails the gauge test what's out of tolerance?
Many things, loaded too long, too much crimp, too little crimp or bullet too large. Most of the problems are controlled by operator setup.
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  #21  
Old 05-21-2017, 01:44 PM
Laudanum Laudanum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogfurr View Post
What would cause a reloading press to load a round that fails the case gauge test? When a round fails the gauge test what's out of tolerance?
Lots of possibilities. More than I can think of. But, for example, the sizing die doesn't reach all the way down to the extractor groove. It's impossible. So if you have a case fired in a chamber that isn't fully supported, you may have a case bulge down where the die cannot reach ... the infamous "Glocked brass". Or, something as simple as inadequate amount of "crimp" (user error).
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2017, 05:36 PM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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Originally Posted by apipeguy View Post
At least 10,000 on a single stage and yes you are correct. Crimp, drop in gauge, drop in 100 round MTM case.
Holy Moly!! Forget that OCD; get some help with the masochism!!
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  #23  
Old 05-21-2017, 06:32 PM
fencer1960 fencer1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
This is why gauges are almost worthless.

You have a barrel. Use it.
I find a gauge useful because I load 9mm for multiple pistols, some of which belong to my son and aren't available for the plunk test. My gauge, an EGW, has proven reliable in this application.
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  #24  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:28 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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I discovered the same, Rus.
'they're not all created equal"

Been using a Lyman since I started loading in '07
Bought an EGW a couple years ago.
Some rnds that will pass the Lyman won't pass the EGW


..L.T.A.
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  #25  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:47 PM
july19 july19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
This is why gauges are almost worthless.

You have a barrel. Use it.
Do this^
I started loading about four years ago; a case gauge seemed a logical purchase and it probably is logical but is so only if the "hole" in your barrel is the same size as the hole in your new, steel paper weight.
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