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  #26  
Old 06-01-2020, 11:29 PM
45ofcourse 45ofcourse is offline
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Originally Posted by toofew1911s View Post
If your property is your home, you are legally entitled to keep people out. If they threaten your life by invading your home, you entitled to defend yourself. But you better have the firepower to defend against them all, 'cause you might tend to piss them off by killing some of them.



Not a pleasant scenario in reality, but leaving your home without defending it simply invites losing it. If you aren't there to defend it, no else is going to - likely resulting in the loss of your home and valuables. A guess a tough decision every one would have to make for themselves, especially if you had family members also involved.
You need to be careful about the legal advise you give out. For example in MN you do not have that right. You must leave your home if at all possible. You can protect family only. Some states you can protect unknown persons. Some states have varying laws. And to be honest I need to be careful as well as laws can and do change.
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  #27  
Old 06-01-2020, 11:43 PM
longarm longarm is offline
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Originally Posted by 45ofcourse View Post
You need to be careful about the legal advise you give out. For example in MN you do not have that right. You must leave your home if at all possible. You can protect family only. Some states you can protect unknown persons. Some states have varying laws. And to be honest I need to be careful as well as laws can and do change.
Sounds like another state needs an Awakening ;->
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  #28  
Old 06-02-2020, 01:04 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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There are no "peaceful protesters"...they are just camouflage and concealment for the arsonists and looters hiding among them. I watched it tonight as they ran their insurgency around Los Angeles. They are a well trained and mobilized insurgency with excellent tactics and logistics. They use fleets of cars to pick up key people and move them from site to site. And they also use those city supplied bikes and scooters, like sheep dogs, to drive the herd in whichever direction their leadership orders via text and cell phones. They are very much a guerrilla army. Right now they use fists and bricks and fire. But they will move up to firearms at a time of their choice. Look at how they have outflanked the Republicans on voter fraud...they've made it all but legal...with no way to challenge the illegal votes after the election. Laugh at your enemy and soon you will serve them on your knees.
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  #29  
Old 06-02-2020, 01:13 AM
oak1971 oak1971 is offline
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It has hit my town, a city of 100k or so. I have been up 4 nights 5? till God only knows when listening to the police scanner. I used to live in the country side, but circumstances have led to me living on the edge of the city. BLM and Antifa have burned and looted several places in town, but several miles south of here.
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  #30  
Old 06-02-2020, 01:24 AM
toofew1911s toofew1911s is offline
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Originally Posted by 45ofcourse View Post
You need to be careful about the legal advise you give out. For example in MN you do not have that right. You must leave your home if at all possible. You can protect family only. Some states you can protect unknown persons. Some states have varying laws. And to be honest I need to be careful as well as laws can and do change.
There are states like MN that don't have a castle doctrine, but all of them to my knowledge, including MN, are basically honoring a type of castle doctrine that allows you to defend yourself in your own home. The key requirement seems to be that you stop defending yourself when the threat is no longer present - for any reason and that you don't use unreasonable force. MN legislature is currently in the process of hopefully remedying the current situation and making defending yourself in your home more clear cut and less ambiguous.

When I said that you can keep people out of your home, even in MN - you can. You just can't kill them or violently assault them but you can certainly bar access.

That being said, everything I and anyone else posts on this or any forum is simply our view or take on any subject and should be verified from other sources before implementing. Universal disclaimer. I don't know everything.
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  #31  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:00 AM
svh svh is offline
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Originally Posted by TominMO View Post
I live in St. Louis city, a Leftist stronghold. If The Donald loses on November 3, I still have 77 days to find a new place to live, probably two counties away. I will be staying up as long as it takes to get the final results.
Hey Tom, I live 3 counties to the left of you, and God forbid, if it comes to that, look me up on November 4th ! I'll show you around.

We moved out of St. Louis in '82 because of, well, similar, but not as extreme "problems", in our neighborhood.

Right now, this is not effecting me physically, as the "ruralness" of my location is of little use to these particular thugs, BUT, I have still upgraded (downgraded?) my alert level to yellow, and have taken appropriate measures for the safety of my family and I.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2020, 01:22 PM
DArBad DArBad is offline
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Originally Posted by Rick in Oregon View Post
As we look at the carnage on TV and see what these "people" are doing, it just reminds me further of just why I left the sewer known as the Bay Area and Kommiefornia many years ago and moved away from all big cities and the "people" in them.

By the look of the national news, I know I made the right decision. And virtually just about everyone here is armed and carries!

If you come, bring your own bag, 'cause you ain't goin' home in your hoodie!
But Rick, its not only Commiefornia and the Bay Area. Its all over the country,...…. Washington, Oregon,Texas, Colorado, New York, Minneapolis, Philadelphia etc. etc.

Where I live, its pretty quiet and dare I say, serene. There are none of those " people " around. I live in Napa. Its like a whole continent away from all the mayhem. Oakland, SF, LA area, that's where the wild animals are.

But to answer the OP, if trouble comes our way, we will have to board up my house and we will defend it...….to the best of our abilities, the animals will find out its in their best interest to leave us alone or go elsewhere. Learned that mindset from my veteran father who fought in WWII. Its not in our interest to just tuck tail and run.

Last edited by DArBad; 06-02-2020 at 01:33 PM.
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  #33  
Old 06-02-2020, 02:03 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Pretty quiet here in the Blue Ridge mountains.

Got up and went trout fishing this morning. my only company was a couple of Herons wading around fishing also. Could smell the tear gas wafting up from Atlanta though.
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  #34  
Old 06-02-2020, 03:13 PM
PBag PBag is offline
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How was the fishing?
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  #35  
Old 06-02-2020, 03:36 PM
Calif. Hunter Calif. Hunter is offline
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Not too likely here in the high desert of CA, or at least in Apple Valley. Victorville(next door city) may be different as it is more suburban. Apple Valley is mainly one acre lots and most residents have firearms. There is talk of a demonstration in the local shopping area today, but most are not too worried. There may be as many residents watching to keep a lid on things as there are protesters.

That said, I have a couple hundred rounds loaded in my AR magazines, the tactical 12 GA is loaded and extra ammo handy, as is the household handgun and mags. A s a former Boy Scout, I still believe in "Be Prepared."
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  #36  
Old 06-02-2020, 04:14 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Fannin County Is always a good time. Great place to fish. I doubt any protests up there.

Try the Black Sheep Restaurant.
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  #37  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:33 PM
Autonomous Autonomous is online now
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Originally Posted by DrkBlue View Post
Questions to ask yourself:
- Does your Property insurance cover riots?
- How many fire extinguishers do you have?
- What fire retardant clothing will you wear?
- Do you have back up Comms in addition to a cell phone?
- What is your state’s deadly force statute?
- What party does the senior district attorney/prosecutor belong to?
- What is your lawyer’s cell number?
Excellent post. Thank you.
Oddly enough I just bought handheld 2 way radios for all four members of my daughters family as a birthday gift for the two kids. I will be ordering some for my wife and myself.
Plenty of fire extinguishers though most are in the shop as the house has fire sprinklers. If things get ugly will wear wool.
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  #38  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:38 PM
Autonomous Autonomous is online now
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To repeat above posts:
Go to your state's website to learn and understand your state weapon and self defense laws.
Rioters kill rightful property owners. Know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.
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  #39  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:41 PM
Caminoist Caminoist is offline
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I felt something like this was coming when they first closed the country down for Covid. What concerns me is that this is just the beginning. Wait till the weather gets hot and the stimulus money runs out. Save your ammunition.

Is this what the first salvo of civil war looks like? I so hope not...
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  #40  
Old 06-02-2020, 08:08 PM
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TominMO TominMO is online now
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Originally Posted by Caminoist View Post
I felt something like this was coming when they first closed the country down for Covid. What concerns me is that this is just the beginning. Wait till the weather gets hot and the stimulus money runs out. Save your ammunition.

Is this what the first salvo of civil war looks like? I so hope not...
Due to 20/20 hindsight, we know that the spark that set off WW1 was the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand. I'm hoping that George Floyd's death does not become a similar spark. But if it does, here are a couple of items to consider:

1. Article on Floyd autopsy report here. As I expected, he was far from healthy. Kneeling on his neck alone didn't kill him. The ME lists a number of underlying health conditions Floyd had, many of them just bad lifestyle choices.

Given that the procedure Chauvin used on Floyd was department-approved, and Floyd's bad health contributing, I predict the cop will get off if he has any kind of decent lawyer at all.

2. The deliverer of the bricks to riot venues is Acme Brick, owned by Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffett). Blll Gates recently resigned from BH, no doubt to distance himself from what he knew would be happening. Also ties to the governor of Illinois Pritzker.....nothing to see here.
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  #41  
Old 06-02-2020, 08:50 PM
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TominMO TominMO is online now
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Originally Posted by svh View Post
Hey Tom, I live 3 counties to the left of you, and God forbid, if it comes to that, look me up on November 4th ! I'll show you around.

We moved out of St. Louis in '82 because of, well, similar, but not as extreme "problems", in our neighborhood.

Right now, this is not effecting me physically, as the "ruralness" of my location is of little use to these particular thugs, BUT, I have still upgraded (downgraded?) my alert level to yellow, and have taken appropriate measures for the safety of my family and I.
Thanks for the offer! I was just out that way just yesterday (west of Union on hwy 50), shooting on some remote property of a friend of a friend. Three of us; mostly 25-yard and less targets but a little 50-yard too. Informal stuff like cans, water bottles, milk jugs, etc. I'm getting away from my bench shooting goal of making tiny 5-shot groups, and pivoting to more practical activities, such as standing unsupported pistol and rifle, stock open sights mostly. I'm not fall-down-laughing horrible*, maybe just major chuckling; but yeah it's a new discipline for sure.

If Trump wins, as I still expect he will, no major worries, back to life as normal. Or the new normal. But I am working up a plan to evacuate should Biden or some other idiot du jour get elected. Somewhere beyond St. Louis county, either Jeffco (good friends there) or west.


* IMVHO; you might not agree
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  #42  
Old 06-02-2020, 08:54 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Putting your knee in someone's neck, who is not resisting or fighting you, for 9 minutes is "department approved "? Id like to see the policy or approval memo for that.... as well as the training POI for it. What specific circumstances warrant this "technique", and did those specific circumstances exist?
While Im far from a grappling expert, a basic fundamental is that full or heavy weight applicatio is only applied to an opponent when there is active, forceful resistance. Once domination is achieved, weight is lifted and balanced. This allows the adaptability to adjust to a changing situation. With full weight on one point of contact, you're off balance.

As for cause of death- would that death have occurred without outside influence? Or was the cardiac arrested triggered by the LE action, and only exasperated by the underlying conditions?
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  #43  
Old 06-02-2020, 09:00 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Fishing was pretty good.

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Originally Posted by PBag View Post
How was the fishing?
Caught my five fish limit before nine O'clock.
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  #44  
Old 06-02-2020, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Putting your knee in someone's neck, who is not resisting or fighting you, for 9 minutes is "department approved "? Id like to see the policy or approval memo for that.... as well as the training POI for it. What specific circumstances warrant this "technique", and did those specific circumstances exist?
While Im far from a grappling expert, a basic fundamental is that full or heavy weight applicatio is only applied to an opponent when there is active, forceful resistance. Once domination is achieved, weight is lifted and balanced. This allows the adaptability to adjust to a changing situation. With full weight on one point of contact, you're off balance.

As for cause of death- would that death have occurred without outside influence? Or was the cardiac arrested triggered by the LE action, and only exasperated by the underlying conditions?
wc, I can't answer your questions, I'm only passing on what I have seen reported. I'm not implying the cop was necessarily in the right just because it was a department-approved technique. It might have been excessive in force, length of time, or even being applied at all, given the situation; but it's not for me to make that call. Lots of facts will still come out, I am sure, and I will not be on the jury.
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All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.
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  #45  
Old 06-03-2020, 12:08 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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Just watch the arrests being made tonight. Three officers on one person and they have trouble controlling them. This one cop had to do it on his own while the other three dealt with the surrounding crowd of people. The knee on the neck was a logical way to control a man who was being combative and uncooperative. The fact that Floyd stopped struggling was not unusual...often a person will stop struggling to get the police to loosen their hold, and then they will start struggling again. What the officer could not immediately tell was that Floyd had stopped breathing. Tonight I saw police standing on people while others tried to control them. This is all politically correct BS.
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  #46  
Old 06-03-2020, 06:10 PM
warp2diesel warp2diesel is online now
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I live in the second largest Illinois city with a Republican Mayor who happens to be Black who I voted for. We have gotten robo curfew notification calls from the County after the protests and looting. I sleep with one of my 1911s on the nightstand and another one under my desk.
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  #47  
Old 06-03-2020, 06:12 PM
toofew1911s toofew1911s is offline
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What was Floyd going to do anyway? His hands were handcuffed behind his back. That left only his legs to control if he was being combative. Surely 4 officers can control 1 persons legs without killing him. If not, obviously in the wrong profession.

I watched a pair of police subdue a demonstrator the other night and I'll be darned if an officer didn't put his knee on the person's neck exactly like the Floyd video. The other officer grabbed the other officer's knee and violently pulled and threw it off of the demonstrator's neck. The remaining officer had no problem handcuffing and dealing with the problem all by himself without the other officers knee assisting.

Is the knee to the neck taught in training? As many times as I have seen it in use, it seems likely. Either that or officers are learning it by watching other officers use it.
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  #48  
Old 06-03-2020, 06:28 PM
Fatboy46 Fatboy46 is offline
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Yep. My old neighborhood has drastically changed. Not for the better. Sadly, it never improves.
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  #49  
Old 06-03-2020, 07:28 PM
wilie wilie is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Putting your knee in someone's neck, who is not resisting or fighting you, for 9 minutes is "department approved "? Id like to see the policy or approval memo for that.... as well as the training POI for it. What specific circumstances warrant this "technique", and did those specific circumstances exist?
While Im far from a grappling expert, a basic fundamental is that full or heavy weight applicatio is only applied to an opponent when there is active, forceful resistance. Once domination is achieved, weight is lifted and balanced. This allows the adaptability to adjust to a changing situation. With full weight on one point of contact, you're off balance.

As for cause of death- would that death have occurred without outside influence? Or was the cardiac arrested triggered by the LE action, and only exasperated by the underlying conditions?
I’m with you, but I‘ve refused to watch the viral video on account of not wanting the emotional baggage of viewing a dying man’s last words getting choked from his lips. Especially for a measly $20 that may have been counterfeit. This man lost his life to what I would consider, a corrupt cop, who tarnished the integrity of the office and profession he represents. IMO he deserves to be treated just like any other private citizen and should be sentenced with manslaughter at a minimum.
As for things being different here, I’m far enough away from the Seattle/Coastie Crazy on my side of the mountains... at least for now. PTL 🙏
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Last edited by wilie; 06-03-2020 at 07:35 PM.
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  #50  
Old 06-03-2020, 09:26 PM
charlie505 charlie505 is offline
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I live in NYC, Manhattan on the north side of Houston street overlooking SoHo, that area that was destroyed Sunday night. The devastation is terrible. Millions of dollars of damage and our mayor supports the protesters and until recently refused to condemn the looters. We don't go out after 3PM which is when the"protesters" start gathering. We are 2 blocks from Washington Square Park, a major gathering area for the protesters.
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