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  #26  
Old 03-17-2020, 11:43 AM
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Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
I am in recovery from PCCphobia. It still disturbs my wa but I am looking beyond the overall scores.
I was just a while ago talking to a friend who had received his 13 round extensions and was just sure 46 rounds on tap would be a big advantage in a Long Field Course of 32 scored hits.

I have only definitely seen one bona fide SBR at a USPSA or IDPA match.
Sanctioned matches do not allow "braced pistols" but the outlaw "style" matches are lousy with them.
We have about 4-5 of the "PCC shooters" in the local area that compete with their stamped guns.

I have a couple SBR to chose from. My MPX is my favorite, but sucks for standing reloads. My CMMG Guard with EndoMag inserts is a close second. Too bad they dont make inserts for 40 round mags. I am still waiting on my stamp for my Glock mag lower to come back.
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  #27  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:17 PM
pat_jones pat_jones is offline
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
My nephew has a real SBR and at our last USPSA match he said he hates getting beat by pistols. I had to point out that he also got beat by a revolver, the guy was a GM but I would have liked to been on that squad and seen.
That's the best part about shooting revolvers, it's kinda like turning the knife.

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  #28  
Old 03-18-2020, 06:48 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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PCC shooters.....

I take offense to Tom Freeman's post.....I never said in my post that PCC shooters should not be allowed to shoot in a pistol match.... I said they have a competitive advantage. They do not draw from a holster, they normally use very high capacity mags which negates having to reload, and are more stable and allows faster shooting as a shoulder fired weapon. All I stated was they should be scored as a separate gun division.

It is not about my ego....and USPSA is practical shooting, so why not allow shotguns to participate....they are also "shoulder fired weapons." I don't buy the comparison of a USPSA open div. shooter vs. a Production div. shooter....they were both conceived to be pistol divisions..... A shoulder fired PCC is not a pistol, it is a shoulder fired rifle using a pistol round, so what is so difficult about scoring and separating PCC shooters from pistol shooters in a competitive pistol match.....?
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  #29  
Old 03-18-2020, 07:45 AM
waktasz waktasz is offline
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They are already scored and separated in the results.

Before Practiscore became ubiquitous there were no combined results...
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  #30  
Old 03-18-2020, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
A shoulder fired PCC is not a pistol, it is a shoulder fired rifle using a pistol round, so what is so difficult about scoring and separating PCC shooters from pistol shooters in a competitive pistol match.....?

That is really simple to answer.

USPSA Matches are not competitive pistol matches. They are competitive practical shooting matches. You wont find the word pistol in USPSA.

I have no problem with shotgun shooter showing up at a USPSA match. If USPSA figures out a way to them to come play safely, the more the merrier.

Lastly, stop whining about the unofficial overall score. It isnt a real/official thing. Maybe contact the guys at PractiScore and get them to change to format to make you happy.
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  #31  
Old 03-18-2020, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pat_jones View Post
That's the best part about shooting revolvers, it's kinda like turning the knife.
Yup. Warms my heart.
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  #32  
Old 03-19-2020, 05:41 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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USPSA shooting matches.....

Quote:
USPSA Matches are not competitive pistol matches. They are competitive practical shooting matches. You wont find the word pistol in USPSA.
USPSA has evolved over the years. I started shooting USPSA when the headquarters was in Sedro Wooley, WA, and Dave Stanford was the president. In the beginning, it was a handgun shooting competition. When Rob Leatham won two back to back USPSA national championships using a compensated .38 super barrel, serious shooters began putting comps on their barrels and the equipment race was started...… Shooting 9mm Major loads was not legal at one time, after people using hi-capacity Browning Hi-Powers had numerous issues with excessive case pressures to make Major power factor loads. Only after new and better powders were developed USPSA approved the 9mm for Major power factor loads.....

During the years of the evolution of gun technology to shoot faster in USPSA, using compensators and optic sights became the norm, and the expense of a USPSA race gun was not "practical" for many new shooters. This is one reason why Bill Wilson and others started the sport of IDPA.....they envisioned a sport using non compensated pistols, iron sights, and preferably limited modifications to make them affordable and practical for pistol shooting. They wanted people to be able to use their "concealed carry guns" in competition shooting.

Although Mr. Freeman is a 1911 Moderator, he seems to make personal disparaging remarks and have stated in posts that I have an "ego" when it comes to posting HOA results, and that I am "whining" about PCC shooters. I am a Super Senior, will be 69 years old in a few months this year, and have no visions about winning HOA anymore, and just because I discourage the use of shoulder mounted PCC weapons in a pistol match, you can certainly disagree, but there is no need to make personal disparaging remarks.....
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  #33  
Old 03-19-2020, 06:57 AM
waktasz waktasz is offline
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You definitely do whine about PCC a lot though.
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  #34  
Old 03-19-2020, 01:27 PM
steve25680 steve25680 is offline
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Your wife is pretty smart. Shooting rifles in pistol matches is stupid.
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  #35  
Old 03-19-2020, 01:42 PM
steve25680 steve25680 is offline
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And this remark is also stupid, but I have seen similar ones from this individual in the past. I suppose that under his premise it would be okay for a person to bring his Colt Woodsman .22 to a USPSA match, or maybe his Barrett rifle, or how about a muzzleloader? Or people who don't like guns could throw rocks or use a slingshot. There are so many disciplines out there for people who want to march to the beat of a different drummer, so go find one of those instead of expecting for your particular preference to be accommodated in a PISTOL discipline. I personally am not impressed with the shooting skills that it takes to hit targets placed at pistol distances with an underpowered rifle, but I also expect to be beat in the final scores by these folks who have a significant equipment advantage all the time. I am a limited shooter, always have been, always will be. I expect to be beat by good open and CO shooters too. I look at how I placed in my division and that's all that I care about. In all honesty, I do like it when I still beat a lot of those guys anyway.
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  #36  
Old 03-19-2020, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve25680 View Post
Your wife is pretty smart. Shooting rifles in pistol matches is stupid.
Long time no see Steve. I miss shooting with you and RW. Hope all is well.
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  #37  
Old 03-21-2020, 09:18 AM
jmorris jmorris is offline
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For me it comes down to reaction time, time to get the first shot off, splits, transitions to various targets, reloads if needed and shot placement/score.

I enjoy them all from time to time, revolver, pistol, shotgun, rifle and even played with PCC in the past.

I have ran SBR’s in 3 gun matches and used a suppressed 9mm AR in a few other matches as well, SBS’s seem to be the most difficult NFA item to be competitive with but I also haven’t gone and played any sub gun games either.
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  #38  
Old 04-13-2020, 07:58 AM
WaterDR WaterDR is offline
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Being somewhat “new” to sanctioned competitions, I generally show up with what I want to shoot that day. They ask me what classification I am in....I ask them to tell me based on what I brought and I just shoot it 🙂

I never bring the same thing.

But I ask a lot of questions and try to absorb it all in.

I “get” that shooting certain platforms is an advantage. I am just there tk have safe fun.
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  #39  
Old 04-13-2020, 10:14 PM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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No more whining about PCC shooters......

If you can't fight them, join them! I now have a 9mm PCC with a 10 inch barrel and flash hider. I have been surprised how accurate the gun groups at 35 yards with my own reloads. I added an optic sight on the full length Picatinny rail. It has a brace, but the gun is considered a "pistol" even though it can be fired from the shoulder...… I like the fact that the bolt will lock back after the last round in the mag is fired, and it came with a 33 round 9mm mag, but it also accepts 9mm Glock magazines.

The gun is basically a blow back type of weapon, and I have fired 124 gr. JHP bullet 9mm Major loads, and much lighter 115 gr. JHP loads using 4.1 gr. of Tite Group powder. So far, the gun is accurate and extremely reliable with the above loads!
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  #40  
Old 04-13-2020, 11:33 PM
Litespeedaudio Litespeedaudio is offline
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I’m on the same page

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterDR View Post
Being somewhat “new” to sanctioned competitions, I generally show up with what I want to shoot that day. They ask me what classification I am in....I ask them to tell me based on what I brought and I just shoot it 🙂

I never bring the same thing.

But I ask a lot of questions and try to absorb it all in.

I “get” that shooting certain platforms is an advantage. I am just there tk have safe fun.
I go to learn and have fun. I rotate a verity of guns based on what I want to shoot that day (production, limited minor, carry optic or PCC). I shoot with a great group of guys and gals who are always willing to answer questions and give helpful advice.
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  #41  
Old 04-14-2020, 07:46 AM
waktasz waktasz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
If you can't fight them, join them! I now have a 9mm PCC with a 10 inch barrel and flash hider. I have been surprised how accurate the gun groups at 35 yards with my own reloads. I added an optic sight on the full length Picatinny rail. It has a brace, but the gun is considered a "pistol" even though it can be fired from the shoulder...… I like the fact that the bolt will lock back after the last round in the mag is fired, and it came with a 33 round 9mm mag, but it also accepts 9mm Glock magazines.

The gun is basically a blow back type of weapon, and I have fired 124 gr. JHP bullet 9mm Major loads, and much lighter 115 gr. JHP loads using 4.1 gr. of Tite Group powder. So far, the gun is accurate and extremely reliable with the above loads!
You can't shoot that in a USPSA match.
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2020, 03:53 PM
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Welcome to the dark side.

Unfortunately waktasz is correct. PCCs with braces are not legal. The rule is as stupid as they come. The Appendix D8 (page 112) lists braces as not allowed.

Most likely at a club level match nobody will care. However if you decide you like shooting PCC, I strongly recommend registering it as a SBR so there is not doubt as to its legality. And now with the online form 1 submissions taking a few weeks rather that 9 months, there isnt a lot of reasons not to SBR it.
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  #43  
Old 04-14-2020, 08:19 PM
waktasz waktasz is offline
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I can tell you exactly why the rule exists. USPSA does not want to be encouraging the use of pistols with braces as shoulder fired weapons in their matches, regardless of what the current ATF ruling on the subject is. ATF has reversed their opinion on such things what, three times already?
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  #44  
Old 04-14-2020, 08:26 PM
Zerodefect Zerodefect is offline
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Can you shoot a FN P90 in PCC?

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  #45  
Old 04-14-2020, 08:34 PM
Litespeedaudio Litespeedaudio is offline
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Nope

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Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
Can you shoot a FN P90 in PCC?

Calibers allowed: 9mm, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP
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  #46  
Old 04-15-2020, 05:15 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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9mm pistol with a brace....

I knew my new 9mm PCC was not legal in USPSA and I am pretty sure it is not legal in 3-gun matches. However, for USPSA, I am still a fan of shooting my 9mm STI 2011 race gun using 9mm Major loads. Last year I purchased and fitted an STI Tru Bor barrel w/compensator, and the gun shoots great! I plan to shoot my PCC for action steel matches and possibly IDPA.....

From a seated bench rested position, using light 9mm loads that I use for IDPA, I was getting roughly 1.5" 5 shot groups at 35 yards, and I still haven't worked up a load for this gun...… I mainly tried the light loads too see if the gun was reliable and if it would work the bolt carrier properly, and it did..... My next step will be to work up a load to find "the sweet spot" for this 9mm carbine style pistol...… I may be able to develop even more accurate loads!

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 04-15-2020 at 05:23 AM.
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