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  #1  
Old 07-01-2020, 09:54 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Have you decided what you are gonna do?

I was wondering if anyone has made any kind of mental adjustments for contingencies in defending yourself, family, friends or innocent after recent events?

In the past I see a lot of people on this forum speak adamantly about State Laws and not getting involved unless it is the last resort and they are backed into a corner.

I wonder if you will now watch your neighbors house go down and wait until they corner you in your bed room before you act? Will you allow the CHOP zone to overcome you or neighbors? Will you stay in your car if blocked in? Will you help the defenseless against dangerous people?

Have you recalibrated your trigger switch?

How does this affect your choice of SD weapons and tactics?
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2020, 11:51 AM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I've always leaned towards Helping Others. And that's ALL others, not just friends & family. Nothing has changed there.

If I think someone is an innocent being victimized I will try to help them, situation allowing, of course.
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  #3  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:26 PM
Levian Levian is offline
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A lot of this is entirely fluid.

For example getting involved with someone else's affairs. I've always maintained - and still do - that you should only get involved if you're willing to shoulder the consequences for your involvement. It's become more painfully apparent than ever that some in government actively act on behalf of criminals and seek to punish those that would dare defend themselves. Keeping that in mind, I still couldn't stand by and watch someone defenseless being assaulted.

Seeing as I live in the suburbs, the neighbor's house is literally a stone's throw from mine. So the answer to that question depends...is the neighbor there, and are they defending their own property? If so, I've little choice but to stand with them. If no, and I'm left to defend both on my own...what am I to do in the face of a mob? 1 on 300 isn't the best of odds, and perhaps it's better to make a retreat and let insurance sort out the rubble. The same applies to a CHAZ situation - if the government and police can't do their job, I'll look into citizen's groups that will and happily join them - but I acknowledge that I couldn't fix such an issue by myself. Houses can be rebuilt, lives cannot be replaced, I see little value throwing away mine for property.

I would never have just stayed in my car if blocked in. At least under the assumption you mean blocked in by people - if it can move it will. If it can't I'm abandoning it, as my vehicle will not become my tomb.

I don't know that I've recalibrated my trigger so to speak, but I have raised my level of vigilance. The 'go' conditions remain the same.

SD weapons? The 1911 and Mossberg Newhaven look a little less viable than they previously did. I'm glad I switched my carry pistol to one with 15 round capacity recently. I now see a more pressing need for a good rifle with more capacity than the average hunting weapon. I'll be rectifying my lack of that when the opportunity presents itself, prior to November at the very latest. My crystal ball says that regardless of who wins the elections, things are going to heat up again.

And of course I've started taking training a lot more seriously as well. Large protest-y looking groups are to be avoided more now than ever.
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  #4  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:30 PM
sagerider sagerider is online now
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HarryO, your questions require much serious consideration. Especially when the current direction of our society and the rule of law seems so distorted/confused/uncertain. At 81, I am far past being able to fully protect myself and family with physical means alone. Home protection and armed carry (when I believe prudent) are mine to use. And, I believe all citizens have a responsibility to assist any individual/s in an emergency or hazardous situation including the possible use of reasonable/deadly force. Here in is the question: what requires reasonable/deadly force? Should deadly force by used to protect an older person in a wheelchair from the theft of their purse? Consider confronting a person splashing paint on a home or bashing the hood of car (possibly yours) with a baseball bat? If deadly force is considered, a real and immediate threat to life should be present. Ask 10 mature adults what constitutes "immediate threat" and you will receive no end of responses and yours will be the only one that matters. I would suggest that the decision to use deadly force include no concern for public reaction or legal consequences. Do only what must be done and trust God for the aftermath.
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  #5  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:39 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Depends on the context...But let me put it this way, assuming the Marxist-Mob was ravaging a neighborhood I lived in, the cops have either fled, or can't come in time, I will do whatever I can to help my neighbors stay safe. As in all important matters, I look to the Lord's Guidance via the Holly Spirit to guide my thoughts and actions.
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  #6  
Old 07-01-2020, 03:31 PM
Get Out Get Out is offline
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IMOA you'd have to put yourself individually in Mark McCloskey scenario. Is his case he and his family are thrust into the middle of a BLM protest that came to his neighborhood unexpectedly. We have minutes to decide what our course of action will be and be able to do everything right?
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  #7  
Old 07-01-2020, 04:00 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Get Out------------ Frankly, Mark was a fool. The wife too.

You don't GO OUTSIDE. Let the rioting idiots know you are armed then stay inside.

If anyone breaches your home, THEN take action. That's sound tactics. How Mark & wife acted was not.
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  #8  
Old 07-01-2020, 04:23 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Someone posted this in another thread but worthy of posting again it is so awesome (and funny too the way they are paired together.)..

https://i.imgur.com/8nBbhGL.jpg

Say's it all: "Y'all ain't from around here are ya?"

I get such a kick out that line (and the pic of family all-armed up including Granny and children - Lol) paired against the pic of the Marxist-Mob.

Kudos to Mark McCloskey and wifey for standing up in MO, but yes the tactics were "Kamikaze". Glad it worked out for them though. Too bad they didn't have a Granny helping out ;-).
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Last edited by combat auto; 07-01-2020 at 04:30 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:55 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is online now
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Harry, I like the question, but I considered similar scenarios about 3 years ago. I was getting ready to retire, knew that I didn't want to stay in Memphis, for a variety of reasons, and so picked a retirement location where I don't have to worry about an insurrection. Unless, of course, the entire country was embroiled in a hot revolutionary war.

Within a radius of 70 miles from my home, there are no potential threats other than very isolated pockets of meth-heads. We live on a lake and near a community of primarily retired people, the majority of whom are veterans. If the revolution comes here, then the country is already lost. So I'm not doing anything different. I shoot a lot because I'm retired, but that's about it.

Last edited by bradsvette; 07-01-2020 at 06:51 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-01-2020, 06:18 PM
Oldguy9 Oldguy9 is offline
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You raise difficult questions for difficult situations.

But it has become increasingly common that totally innocent people make a turn down a street and find themselves under a kind of siege. It continues even after the "big" riots have ended. I saw a video of a motorist in the wrong place-wrong time getting shot in Provo Utah. (Provo! When I was there 40 years ago it would have been unthinkable.)

At the end it appeared to show the shooter taking a final shot at the escaping car. A guy clearly not in the protest was standing 20 feet away watching. Could he have shot the shooter?

Well I wouldn't have shot him but I would have produced my weapon...the guy just demonstrated his capability and intentions.

These are strange, deteriorating times. I have a new level of respect for preppers.
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  #11  
Old 07-01-2020, 06:46 PM
Oneeyeross Oneeyeross is offline
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Living in a rural environment, I don't really have "close" neighbors like those that live in town - 300 yards or so is the closest.

But, we watch out for each other. The type of neighbor I have - we had a dog issue years ago, herself was yelling and I fired off a few rounds to scare the dogs off. Neighbor heard screaming and gun fire and showed up on his quad, armed and ready to go. It's what we do out here, watch out for one another.

Now, if I were silly enough to go north to Seattle (ain't gonna happen) I'm not sure I would get out of my car to do anything for anyone. The risk would be too great, unless it was a loved one.

Maybe I've just become jaded as I've aged, but my altruism is lessening.
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  #12  
Old 07-01-2020, 07:19 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is online now
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All good questions. Know the law in your area, use common sense, don't over react, help those that need it and if the time comes when I think I need to use a firearm I pray God will give me wisdom to do what He wants me to do to protect my family and those in need.
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:25 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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Howdy neighbor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneeyeross View Post
Living in a rural environment, I don't really have "close" neighbors like those that live in town - 300 yards or so is the closest.

But, we watch out for each other. The type of neighbor I have - we had a dog issue years ago, herself was yelling and I fired off a few rounds to scare the dogs off. Neighbor heard screaming and gun fire and showed up on his quad, armed and ready to go. It's what we do out here, watch out for one another.

Now, if I were silly enough to go north to Seattle (ain't gonna happen) I'm not sure I would get out of my car to do anything for anyone. The risk would be too great, unless it was a loved one.

Maybe I've just become jaded as I've aged, but my altruism is lessening.
Mason county: "Ya'll ain't from around here are ya?'"

About the same here. I've been taking my wife to the range weekly for handgun and carbine training. She's having a ball and says she feels "empowered" like never before! Drilling steel at 100 yards with "her" 9mm carbine and making double taps at 10 yards with "her" revolver!

Don't piss off this "grand ma"!

Smiles,
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Last edited by jjfitch; 07-01-2020 at 08:28 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:09 AM
Glasshalfempty Glasshalfempty is offline
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The wife now insists that my teenage children do a range day every month w me. Before we left it up to them.

I have changed my carry routine- adding an additional gun so that I can arm one of them if things go south while we are out and about.

Took my 18 year old son out and demonstrated some new driving techniques and have him practicing them w me on his days off. He works in an area where rioting has impacted operations and caused highway and street closures. He has a go bag in his car in case he has to abandon his vehicle or can't get home due to rioting or protests.


I added significant less lethal and crowd dispersal products to the go bag I carry in the car when I'm out. Even my 75 year old mom is taking in extra range days. Don't mess with little old ladies with their K-frames!
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:23 AM
Levian Levian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasshalfempty View Post
I added significant less lethal and crowd dispersal products to the go bag I carry in the car when I'm out.
Good thing to bring up. I've been considering adding some less lethal things to the kit as well. It would be nice to have a deterrent that lies somewhere between punching someone in the mouth and punching a hole in them.
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  #16  
Old 07-03-2020, 02:55 AM
L84CABO L84CABO is offline
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I am well prepared if my neighborhood becomes overrun by the angry mob and the police have abandoned us. Shenanigans will not be tolerated. That said, I live in a pretty quiet neighborhood, tucked out of the way, and in the front door shadow of a good sized military base. Never say never. But due to the geography and base proximity there are a lot closer and probably more attractive targets before a mob would get out my way.

I like to think that I can avoid walking into an angry mob as I stay well away from the protests and the areas they are in. What concerns me more is driving into one of them like on a freeway where there's no way to retreat. I saw the footage of the recent situation up in Utah where one of the rioters just open fired on an SUV. A situation like that is very dynamic with lots of variables. Accordingly I'm going to play that one by ear. But I can assure you that NOBODY is getting dragged out of my vehicle and I damn sure won't be sticking around if someone starts shooting.

As for my choice in self defense weapons I changed my gun out long ago after they started flying jet liners into buildings and blowing up marathons, and driving vans through crowds of people and shooting up night clubs, and theaters and Christmas parties, etc. A small single stack, short sight radius'd, sub compact is NOT a gun I want to have to fight with or bet my life on. Glock 19 size and 15 round mag w/a spare is as small as I go these days. I've also always carried pepper spray and I don't leave the house these days without both. Hopefully I'll NEVER have to use either.

Be safe folks and make sure you're talking to your spouses and children about these things. Arm the ones that can be and give pepper spray to the kids who are old enough...make sure to teach them how to use it.
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  #17  
Old 07-03-2020, 07:03 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian View Post
Good thing to bring up. I've been considering adding some less lethal things to the kit as well. It would be nice to have a deterrent that lies somewhere between punching someone in the mouth and punching a hole in them.
Bear spray.
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2020, 07:03 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I've always leaned towards Helping Others. And that's ALL others, not just friends & family. Nothing has changed there.

If I think someone is an innocent being victimized I will try to help them, situation allowing, of course.
I’m in agreement on this one MM. There has been many times for me through out my life. One or 2 put me in hot water taking several years to be exonerated. Its a reflex i think that has to be tamed and contained.
Some years of wisdom (and a bad back... ) slows down the reflex and extends the assessment part, before hand. Although, i can be pretty aggressive if something or someone breeches my space.
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Old 07-03-2020, 07:10 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Get Out------------ Frankly, Mark was a fool. The wife too.

You don't GO OUTSIDE. Let the rioting idiots know you are armed then stay inside.

If anyone breaches your home, THEN take action. That's sound tactics. How Mark & wife acted was not.
Disagree MM.

So, they were to wait inside, and wait for the first brick, Molotov cocktail to come thru a window? If the protesters didnt see anyone outside, how do you know the mob would not have started doing damage? You dont.

They’re not SWAT, theyre homeowners defending their property on their property. Maybe theres room for technique improvement (especially for the wife not to muzzle her husband..), but overall, the end result was as good as anyone could expect i think.
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2020, 07:18 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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I'm not sure exactly how one "defends" something that is not being attacked or targeted for.attack....

These people were NOT the object of the mobs attention- until they made themselves so.... their confrontation was wholly of their own making.
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Old 07-03-2020, 07:31 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
I'm not sure exactly how one "defends" something that is not being attacked or targeted for.attack....

These people were NOT the object of the mobs attention- until they made themselves so.... their confrontation was wholly of their own making.
Disagree.

They made themselves a visible presence but didn’t threaten or brandish their weapons at anyone specific from what is viewed on the video.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2020, 07:57 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Disagree.

They made themselves a visible presence but didn’t threaten or brandish their weapons at anyone specific from what is viewed on the video.
I agree that they didn't "brandish" anything at anyone in particular, but that's not necessary to create a confrontation or event. They DID point weapons at the mob as a whole....

However, had they NOT gone out armed, the mob would have simply walked by. They had no interest in these people, they .. and we'd know nothing about them. It would have been a non- event.

To suggest that the homeowners "defended" anything is disingenuous at best, and deliberately misleading at worst. Absent the (very real) threat of, or actual offensive action, there is nothing to "defend" against...

While they're completely within their rights to stand on their porch armed, it doesn't mean that its a wise or prudent thing to do....
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I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
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  #23  
Old 07-03-2020, 08:13 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post

However, had they NOT gone out armed, the mob would have simply walked by. They had no interest in these people, they .. and we'd know nothing about them. It would have been a non- event.

To suggest that the homeowners "defended" anything is disingenuous at best, and deliberately misleading at worst. Absent the (very real) threat of, or actual offensive action, there is nothing to "defend" against...
Not sure how you can be so positive, the mob would simply walk by. Especially considering the same or similar mob burnt something ( cvs or some retail store) to the ground days before and a mile from the guys house.

They did defend their property. The fact that “it worked” is allowing you to arm chair 20/20 hindsight it, imho.
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  #24  
Old 07-03-2020, 08:27 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Not sure how you can be so positive, the mob would simply walk by. Especially considering the same or similar mob burnt something ( cvs or some retail store) to the ground days before and a mile from the guys house.

They did defend their property. The fact that “it worked” is allowing you to arm chair 20/20 hindsight it, imho.
How can I be so certain? Its quiet simple. They had already walked by several homes- without doing anything. They has a specific objective- to go to the mayors residence.
The couple involved was NOT on this mobs agenda.

At what point, exactly, precisely, BEFORE these guys pointed guns at a crowd, was their home directly attacked or specifically threatened with attack? Without that, the did not "defended" anything....
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  #25  
Old 07-03-2020, 08:39 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Not sure how you can be so positive, the mob would simply walk by. Especially considering the same or similar mob burnt something ( cvs or some retail store) to the ground days before...They did defend their property.
I don’t know that much about “really happened”. I don’t think any of us do, because the news media has tainted the message. But results do speak for themselves. I think that they were brave and maybe stupid, but their house didn’t burn. I probably won’t leave my house under difficult circumstances either. I hope they never see reprisals.

Is this the case where initial news reports talked about how opulent their home was?
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