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I was told by a gun dealer that Kimber has changed their...

13K views 64 replies 38 participants last post by  jharris308 
#1 ·
...manufacturing methods by switching to a more "assembly line" method. He said these new methods are why lots of Kimbers are being sent back to the factory after they are sold, because quality control has slipped. I have never owned a Kimber, but want to purchase an Ultra 1911 model of a high quality maker. I am a retired LEO and presently have two glock .40s, but want a small .45 for personal defense, so I am really not looking for a range pistol for 1000's of rounds of shooting. This would be a carry gun that I would want to conceal and carry comfortably. I would probably only put about 500 rounds a year through it. I really do love how the Kimber Super Carry Ultra and the Ultra Crimson Carry II look and feel, but have never shot either. I also like the look of the Sig 1911 Ultra two tone, but can't find one, except online. I have, however, found both of these Kimbers and I am getting the itch to get one. Reliability would be my number one priority in this weapon, as I imagine that both would be similar in accuracy, but could be mistaken. To those that have either of these brands, can anyone advise which would suit me best? By reading lots of Kimber posts, there seem to be issues with FTF and FTE on the Kimbers, at lease more so that some of the other brands. I just don't want to make a mistake on such a large purchase. Thanks in advance....
 
#3 ·
So are Kimbers being manufactured the same way they always have? I really haven't bought anything from this particular dealer, so I don't know if anything he has said has any accuracy to it, which is why I am coming here. I do love how the Kimbers look and feel...
 
#4 ·
Sounds like more Gunstore Fokelore to me. When you sell as many guns as Kimber does, I'm sure that they have been running the assembly line for quite some time with very minimal hand fitting. You would have to produce them this way to get the numbers they do.

Since Kimber sells a zillion guns a year, you will get more guns going back to the factory for repair. Since you hear more about people complaing about a product than you do praising it, this is where you get this internet hype about Kimber quality going down hill. Most of the time you don't hear from people who are happy with their products because they are just too busy enjoying using them to complain on the web or aren't active on forums.

I have had 3 Kimber 1911's over the years. All of them were top quality guns. All of my friends Kimbers are top quality guns.

So, put simply, don't believe the hype. Chances are, if you buy a Kimber, you will get a great gun.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Your dealer gave you some erroneous information. Not only Kimbers but most other mainstream 1911s you can think of are built up in an " assembly line " process.

Very, very few brands are actually built up one at a time " custom style "--and those few cost an arm and leg. An example that is not assembly line style would be those custom ordered pieces from say Heirloom Precision or a one of a kind special ordered 1911 from Cylinder & Slide.

As a production gun, Kimbers are some of the best you can buy. This is borne by the fact that for so many years now, Kimber is the BIGGEST seller of 1911s on the planet, bar none. Lots of Kimber owners own more than one, which will not be the case if Kimbers are not quality pieces.

Forget the errornet bashers, buy a Kimber and tell us what you think.

Hope this helps.
 
#6 · (Edited)
If you keep reading you will find folks that say that Kimbers are good while others say they are crap. Others will talk about how quality has slipped while others say it's improving. Some have direct experience while others are parroting what they have heard or read. When I bought my first the sales goon told me it was total crap but was more than happy to sell it to me. 10k rounds later he suggested that I just happen to have one of the "good" ones.

What is probably more accurate to say is that the shorter 1911s like the Ultras, and SA Micros,etc can be a little more picky and temperamental than the longer guns so they sometimes need some "tuning" to get them to run reliably. That said, my wife's 3" EMP eats everything. As long as I clean it every 1k rounds or so it's as reliable as any of my 5" guns. My Kimbers, both of which are less than 5 years old, have been golden although both have less than 11k rounds through them.

Everyone's mileage will vary.
 
#33 ·
What is probably more accurate to say is that the shorter 1911s like the Ultras, and SA Micros,etc can be a little more picky and temperamental than the longer guns so they sometimes need some "tuning" to get them to run reliably. That said, my wife's 3" EMP eats everything. As long as I clean it every 1k rounds or so it's as reliable as any of my 5" guns. My Kimbers, both of which are less than 5 years old, have been golden although both have less than 11k rounds through them.

Everyone's mileage will vary.
I feel they are just unforgiving. They lack the weight of the longer bbl guns and need proper technique when being used.

If shot right - high hold , firm grip, they work as well as any other model.
I get a little sick of people parroting stuff they read on the internet again and again .

YMMV
 
#7 ·
I just bought an Ultra TLE II and it is great. It shoots well and my main reason for it is Concealed carry in the warmer months. I see no defects in workmanship.

I shot it yesterday and some FTE's that are definitely shooter related :) , I have never owned a 3" so I am still breaking it in and getting used to it. I have 400 rounds through it. First time out 175 rounds and no failures. I think the dealer is misinformed.
 
#12 ·
My recently purchased CDP Ultra II shot through 350 rounds of various types with not the first hiccup.

It is a Custom Shop gun, which I've heard are hand fitted, but like others above have said, the smaller Ultra sized 1911's are more finicky and can have more problems out the gate.

A perfect example of this is my co-workers newly purchased Sig 3" 1911 which had feeding/slide stop problems and had to go back to Sig to be repaired.

The icing on the cake is that he was/is a Kimber basher, claiming Sigs to be the best 1911 for the money. Now he wants to shoot my CDP since he's had problems, but mine has been flawless.
 
#13 ·
Kimber makes a fine 1911 and has an excellent customer service dept that will correct problems that may exist. While "Custom Shop" appears on most of their guns, they are still production pistols. Since Kimber sells far more than other manufactures, it only stands to reason that they will a larger number of guns that will need adjustment. However, on a percentage basis, I'm confident they have no more or even fewer service issues than any other production made 1911. People are also more prone to post problems far more often than those who post how great their Kimber is.
 
#14 ·
Both Kimber and Sig have had noted reliabilty probems that have been widely reported.Both involve external extractors and FPSafety issues.Sig did away with the manhole cover and went with a sawed off internal extractor to retain the FPS.I believe Kimber has gone back to internal extractors,and S&W has gone to a wider external one.As to the choices mentioned and the two brands mentioned,I would go with a CCO 4.25" barrel lenght,which rules out Kimber.That leaves Sig,which had two Variations in that model.The new ones are made with Sig parts that are not outsourced and the problems have suposedly gone down.They are all made on an assembly line.Only full out custom type one off pistols are not,sometimes.
 
#23 ·
Both Kimber and Sig have had noted reliabilty probems that have been widely reported.



By internet experts.:rofl:
They did get away from the manhole covers,and they did change the slide on the CCO.I know because I was going to buy one and noticed the differences.I did not claim to be an expert,I was relaying this information,and it is correct.I will not bash any brand of firearm.I will mention if they have had alot of reported problems and a design change came in the same time frame.So what is your point again?
 
#18 ·
I would like to know how many of the Kimber bashers have had first hand experience. A lot of the bashing is a friend of a friend said. That is the way it was for me. I asked everyone I knew if they had one or knew anything about them. None of my friends had one but was willing to tell me how they are over priced and problematic, or how they were the best thing since sliced bread. It was a about a 50/50 split with no first hand experiences. I think that most of the bashing is done by people, that believe that there should be no break in period on a $1000 handgun. Or it is there first handgun and they do not know how to properly hold the firearm(limp wristing). I am not saying all of the bashing is by inexperienced people just some of it. When you make as many handguns a Kimber does you are bound to get some genuine problems from a few. I am happy I went with a Kimber.
 
#19 ·
I agree with what you are saying. I am not a "basher" per say buy I do have a bad taste in my mouth with my Kimber. After purchasing my springfield I expected a bit more from them. I had to send it back after e first range trip. I'll give them recognition, they did fix it, but they patched the problem instead of repairing the problem. Once I got all of the kinks worked out I started to like the gun more every range trip!
 
#22 ·
Yeah i cannot believe how much people believe what is on the internet on Kimbers.When i bought mine a few months back i was like you hear these people bashing Kimber and i looked at videos on youtube and they all loved there Kimbers.So with my nib Kimber TLE II i went to the range and wow it shot 100 rounds fmj 230 and no ftf,fte . worked great.In fact i love the weapon it is just awsome as far as i am concerned.The fit the finish everything about it.Yeah you are gonna get some that don't work the way mine does but that is like the big 3 sometimes they have to have recalls but hey chances are you are going to get a good one.I love Kimbers but i wanted to change it up and just bought a Colt Combat Commmander in stainless but i wanted it and bought it but i am not going to bash Kimber because i love my TLEII.And my Kimber will always be with me.lol
 
#27 · (Edited)
I wish Kimber would make a 4.25" CCO in Alloy with a traditional barrel bushing and no FPS for a reasonable price.I would highly consider buying one.S&W makes one in scandium with an external extractor that I have seen new for $904.00 local last month that looks nice.Smith is going to titanium firing pins and doing away with the FPS I am told.The new 5" guns have a wider External extractor,but it has not been carried over to the ES CCO that I am aware of yet.Even the FPS on a Kimber would not bother me.It looks like Dan Wesson Colt Talo and Colt Thunder Ranch are taking the lead in TraditionalCCO's at this time.The Thunder Ranch's were in stock last month for 1,100 with no FPS if they have not sold out?Oh almost forgot the Sig,reasonable price,I believe comes with sig night site's,if you can get past the looks of the slide,and external extractor.If you like the Kimber get it,they are nice guns.I just want a 4.25" non bull barrel.
 
#28 ·
I bought my first Kimber this year. A Eclipse in 10mm. I have had and currently still have, several Colt's and Springfields, as well as some high end 1911's. I have read more pos. and neg. about Kimber than all the others put together. Unbelievable. I also can not believe how so many LGS people have no clue about them, even though they sell them. This I think is partly Kimber's fault for keeping secrets about some of their materials and processes used (they now will not tell you if their frames are forged). I had one person even tell me Kimber frames and slides were MIM :hrm:. I finally decided to try one for myself. What a nice 1911. Very accurate. Reliable thus far. Fit and finish are right up there with some of my high dollar guns. Trigger is very good for a production gun as well. I have nothing but good things to say so far. I would and probably will, buy another.
 
#31 ·
I'm new to guns and inherited a never fired Ultra CDP II a few months ago. I won't bore you with me learning how it work it....but I have over 600 rounds through it now and I have not had a single malfunction. I havn't been threw the hundreds of diff types of ammo yet, just 230 grain FMJ - but mine has been flawless. Now if I can learn to not jerk the trigger I might get decent groups ;)
 
#36 ·
For years I have watched in wonderment the threads on the Kimber forum that extol the virtues and vilify the shortcomings of this particular brand. Only the Colt forum has more passionate patrons but many fewer negative posts in my observation. Not because they produce a far superior product but I suspect that the negative poster over there might actually be hunter down in person and harmed for their blasphemous comments against the Holy brand...but I digress....so I am finally going to chime in.

I own multiple guns from each company mentioned above and a few from other 1911 manufacturers. I own three Kimbers, including one of their Limited Edition Centennials, so I am heavily invested (financially) in their brand. I mention this because it plays a part in peoples opinion of their brand loyalty. I have never had any problems with any of my Kimbers that required returning it to the factory. Because I am a manufacturing engineer, I understand the tolerances associated with high volume manufacturing and factor that into product I purchase. This also helps me understand why so many people are unsatisfied with the performance of their gun out of the box. They want the performance of a custom gun at the price of a production gun.

Over the years, I have also observed the bias of the local gun stores around the Kimber brand and offer this as a possible explanation. At some point in the past, as Kimber's popularity was sharply rising and dealers requirements were going mostly unmet and Kimber had no answer to smooth the ruffled feathers of the dealers unable to cash in on this gold rush, they began to trash the brand to their customers in a effort to sell what they had in stock. Couple this with the attitude commonly associated with employees of a company offering a product where supply is woefully short of demand and you have the makings of a marketing nightmare....which apparently still exists today and if Kimber wasn't still able to sell every pistol they can manufacture at a price point they want....I suspect they would spend more time addressing this marketing problem...but why would they do that now?

Sorry for the long post but I did say I waited years to do this :p
 
#40 ·
Just to chime in, I have two Kimbers, one is an Eclipse Ultra II, and the other (full size) I shoot in IDPA. They're both GREAT pistols - I have no reservation recommending one of the Ultra's to you for carry.
 
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