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  #1  
Old 01-06-2009, 05:54 AM
DennisH87 DennisH87 is offline
 
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Grip saftey contacting hammer

The beavertail grip safety that is on my RIA 1911 is contacting the hammer when it is at full cock. The spring in the grip safety seems to not be there; it just bounces around with no tension. It looks like the owner before me installed a beavertail grip safety and couldnt get it to work so he just took the spring out and called it good.

Also, another question, when i go to order sights, what size do i need to order?

Are all parts interchangeable between one 1911 to another?

Can anyone help me with these problems please? This is my first 1911 and actually first pistol. So I'm not familiar with how well different parts off different guns interchange.

Attached are two pictures of my RIA 1911 to help with identification.
Attached Thumbnails
RIA 1911 Sideview.jpg   RIA 1911 In Hand.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 01-06-2009, 08:56 AM
labuyo labuyo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisH87 View Post
The beavertail grip safety that is on my RIA 1911 is contacting the hammer when it is at full cock. The spring in the grip safety seems to not be there; it just bounces around with no tension. It looks like the owner before me installed a beavertail grip safety and couldnt get it to work so he just took the spring out and called it good.

Also, another question, when i go to order sights, what size do i need to order?

Are all parts interchangeable between one 1911 to another?

Can anyone help me with these problems please? This is my first 1911 and actually first pistol. So I'm not familiar with how well different parts off different guns interchange.

Attached are two pictures of my RIA 1911 to help with identification.
Bend back the right leaf of the sear spring to put tension on the safety and see if that takes care of it.
For sights go to either Brownells or Midway. You'll need a Gov't , narrow tennon front sight.
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2009, 10:54 AM
supergus supergus is offline
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Is there a clearance cut out on top of the grip safety to let the hammer drop into it? It may be possible that the PO changed grip safeties and put one in for a Gov. hammer instead of a commander hammer.

Never mind, just read the part about no spring tension. try bending the spring as stated above. Sorry
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Last edited by supergus; 01-06-2009 at 10:57 AM.
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  #4  
Old 01-06-2009, 10:54 AM
JurisMyDiction JurisMyDiction is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisH87 View Post
The beavertail grip safety that is on my RIA 1911 is contacting the hammer when it is at full cock. The spring in the grip safety seems to not be there; it just bounces around with no tension. It looks like the owner before me installed a beavertail grip safety and couldnt get it to work so he just took the spring out and called it good.

Also, another question, when i go to order sights, what size do i need to order?

Are all parts interchangeable between one 1911 to another?

Can anyone help me with these problems please? This is my first 1911 and actually first pistol. So I'm not familiar with how well different parts off different guns interchange.

Attached are two pictures of my RIA 1911 to help with identification.
plenty of places sell the "sear spring" which is a 3 prong leaf spring. the prong on the far right is for the grip safety. can you take a picture of the gun fully cocked so we can see where it makes contact??

i myself bought a "Used and screwed with" 1911 and am experiencing a barrage of crapola so i've become quite familiar with solutions to several of these problems
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  #5  
Old 01-07-2009, 05:50 AM
DennisH87 DennisH87 is offline
 
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ya, i get you guys a pic once my camera charges. It is definitely the grip safety. The hammer wont allow it to fully engage. How much travel does the grip safety have before it does disengage?
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2009, 09:42 AM
JurisMyDiction JurisMyDiction is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisH87 View Post
ya, i get you guys a pic once my camera charges. It is definitely the grip safety. The hammer wont allow it to fully engage. How much travel does the grip safety have before it does disengage?
it's time to do what i did! throw a whole bunch of money at the problem! haha i had to buy a new grip safety hammer and sear because mine were malfunctioning.

head to either ed brown's web site or someone who sells wilson combat and get a new hammer and grip safe, ge tthem in stainless, and get a stainless trigger, they will look schweeeeeet

Last edited by JurisMyDiction; 01-07-2009 at 09:44 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-07-2009, 11:22 AM
LHB1 LHB1 is offline
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Dennis,
No, most parts of a 1911 require some fitting to function properly and on some the fitting is critical to safe operation. I mean no disrespect but the contents of your questions indicate that you are a newcomer to 1911's with no knowledge of how the internal parts fit and function. Would strongly suggest that you either a) gain considerable knowledge on 1911s before trying to modify your gun or b) let a qualified 1911 gunsmith diagnose and fix your problems. A good source of info on 1911's is Jerry Kuhnhausen's book "The Colt .45 Automatic", available from Brownells. If the previous owner "removed the spring from grip safety" then the trigger would not work either because the same spring puts pressure on the trigger (return) and sear.
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  #8  
Old 01-07-2009, 11:43 AM
JurisMyDiction JurisMyDiction is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHB1 View Post
Dennis,
No, most parts of a 1911 require some fitting to function properly and on some the fitting is critical to safe operation. I mean no disrespect but the contents of your questions indicate that you are a newcomer to 1911's with no knowledge of how the internal parts fit and function. Would strongly suggest that you either a) gain considerable knowledge on 1911s before trying to modify your gun or b) let a qualified 1911 gunsmith diagnose and fix your problems. A good source of info on 1911's is Jerry Kuhnhausen's book "The Colt .45 Automatic", available from Brownells. If the previous owner "removed the spring from grip safety" then the trigger would not work either because the same spring puts pressure on the trigger (return) and sear.
it could have been put back in wrong. or bent incorrectly.

i know yours is not a taurus but try this link
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=2063.0
it should be relatively similar.

detail strip the whole thing and examin all the parts. if something looks off kilter post a pic of it here and i'm sure you will get several replies as to how it should look. once you've ID's the problem then talk to a smith, but this way you will have some knowledge of your firearm and be able to comprehend what the smith is saying.

it's like automotive mechanics. someone cah charge you $100 to rotate your tires or you can take out your jack and do it yourself for free in under 20 min.

i'm not saying you should do any smithing youreself but ALL i see on these 1911 websites is "OMFG DON'T TOUCH IT!!!!! PUT THE GUN DOWN AND IMMEDIATELY TAKE IT TO A SMITH OR ALIENS WILL FLY OUT OF THE MAINSPRING HOUSING!!!!"

i say take it apart and LEARN somethign about it using the internet and even some books as a resource. as long as you don't actually BREAK anything (and even sometimes if you do) you will be able to fix it, or get help fixing it, but then you will know HOW to do it next time it happens to you or someone else.

Last edited by JurisMyDiction; 01-07-2009 at 11:48 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-07-2009, 11:49 AM
labuyo labuyo is offline
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Check this place for 1911 plumbing info..

http://www.blindhogg.com/
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:25 AM
DennisH87 DennisH87 is offline
 
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Pics

Here is a picture of my RIA. In the pictures you can see the back (closest to you when holding it) of the hammer is contacting the grip safety when fully cocked. It does have a notch for the hammer to fall into but the notch is not big enough to allow the safety to come all the way up and engage because the hammer is hitting it. I'm eventually going to get another grip safety but i would like to know whats causing this. I'm thinking i just need a new grip safety and spring to hold it in the correct position.
Attached Thumbnails
Beavertail and hammer.jpg   Beavertail safety.jpg  
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  #11  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:53 AM
DennisH87 DennisH87 is offline
 
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ok, new update, i just took it apart (slide off, grip safety off, and manual safety off of gun (but in "on" postion")) when i pull the hammer back with the grip safety off of the gun and pull the trigger it still releases the hammer. There is still the same problem with the safety contacting the hammer, but shouldnt the hammer not be allowed to drop becuase the grip safety is in the "safe" position?? This makes me think that there is something in the gun allowing the hammer to fall whether or not the grip safety is in the "safe" position. What part am i thinking of? I don't know the parts names and functions because I've never fully disassemble my gun. Although I am new to 1911's I still have a good knowledge of how mechanisms work. I'm going to school for Mechanical Engineering so someday i might be designing parts for these guns.
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2009, 07:03 AM
rduckwor rduckwor is offline
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Hopefully as an ME you'll get to do something as significant as designing parts for this fine gun.

It sounds as though there should be a visit to an experienced 1911 smith in your near future.

Ask questions and learn at the feet of a master. There are some very fine tolerances in a good 1911 and some fitting tricks that one needs to know when building a reliable firing chain in this gun. You will not likely be able to discover these on your own and will screw up your pistol, ME or not.

You are correct, your hammer should not be released without compression of the grip safety. Thus, fitting/adjustment is required. Something isn't right.

Good Luck,

RMD
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:23 AM
JurisMyDiction JurisMyDiction is offline
 
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This should DEFINITELY help to clear things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rduckwor View Post
You are correct, your hammer should not be released without compression of the grip safety.
RMD
this is correct if the grip safety is installed and in place, however, if you look at the illustration below. YES THE GUN SHOULD FIRE WITH THE GRIP SAFETY OUT.


Last edited by JurisMyDiction; 01-08-2009 at 09:27 AM.
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:20 AM
Dangerous Dangerous is offline
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The grip safety does not directly block the hammer. What it does is block the trigger bow from releasing the sear which in turn releases the hammer.

Without the GS in the gun, the trigger will release the sear.

My suggestion is to remove the safety, MSH and GS, look carefully at the sear spring placement to insure it is installed correctly. Reinstall the GS using a punch pin to hold it in place, holding the Sear spring in place with your thumb and check to insure the spring keeps the GS in the engaged postition. That is pushed out. If not bend the sear spring right finger back toward the GS until it does.

Then carefully reinstall the MSH, Safety and GS, making sure that the Sear Spring is installed correctly and not twisted. The tab on the bottom of the Sear Spring goes into the little slot in the back of the frame. That keeps the spring aligned and at the right hieght. The MSH keeps the spring in the slot.

There is a sticky in the forums home page on detail striping.
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:48 AM
labuyo labuyo is offline
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' sounds like to me, that the tab on the grip safety that's suppose to block the trigger bow isn't cut correctly or wasn't cut at all (I'm hoping it isn't).
Study the illustration posted by Jurismydiction ( ) or go to your local library or Barnes and Noble and look at Gunsmithing books to gain more insight on this subject. I like Pat Sweeny's 1911 gunsmithing book.

Just a note: Your grip safety follows the Ed Brown/STI/Armscor cut, keep this in mind if you end up replacing the grip safety on your gun. Go easy on cutting the tab, its so easy to over cut.
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2009, 12:25 AM
DennisH87 DennisH87 is offline
 
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i dont think you guys understand, revert back to the title of this thread. Grip safety contacting hammer. I think this is the main problem. It doesnt allow the GS to fully engage. What answers I'm looking for is how to fix this problem and if i buy another grip safety would it do the same thing as the current one?
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2009, 10:21 AM
JurisMyDiction JurisMyDiction is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisH87 View Post
i dont think you guys understand, revert back to the title of this thread. Grip safety contacting hammer. I think this is the main problem. It doesnt allow the GS to fully engage. What answers I'm looking for is how to fix this problem and if i buy another grip safety would it do the same thing as the current one?
i think what we're all trying to tell you is that the grip safety contracting the mahher could be a problem with the grip safety, hammer, sear, or other things. in order for us to help you we need to knwo which one of these things is malfunctioning ir improperly sized. you say that the grip safety wiggles when the hammer is up (on the firing pin) which means that the prong on the far right of your sear spring needs to be bent back farther. as far as the hammer contact problem, the hammer could be aftermarket and too big, the sear and hammer could be a bad matchup and it's cocking too far, or it could have been bad smithing. it looks to me like the hammer is back a bit far but then again i have a taurus so i don't know. maybe some RIA guys can chime in. if i were you i'd get a valuline hammer and sear from wilson combat (very inexpensive and from what i hear they are great parts) and try to drop those in (with the help of a smith for fitting etc.)


RIA guys, does that hammer look like it's cocking too fac back?

**EDIT**
ok i google image searched a bunch of RIA 1911's and looked at the photos thread on this site. of the ones with the same skeleton style hammer that you have, it seems that yours is aftermarket. i would start with a new hammer and wouldn't be surprised if the guy before you didn't change out the hammer and then when he encountered this problem bent the GS spring so that it would be looser.

all in all, i think the hammer will do it

Last edited by JurisMyDiction; 01-09-2009 at 10:30 AM.
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2009, 05:30 PM
Dangerous Dangerous is offline
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It bet that is it. When cocked, the hammer is pushing down on the GS Bevertail area which lifts the safety tang inside the pistol and thus defeating the purpose of the GS. He either needs to bob the hammer or use a different GS with a deeper notch for the hammer at full cock. You can't put a Commander styled hammer on a gun with a stock government GS. You need to relieve the area where the hammer hits it at full cock, or go to a relieved beavertail.

hope that helps.

His photos show a beavertail with commander style hammer soooooooo, maybe the bt is not relieved enough?
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Last edited by Dangerous; 01-09-2009 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Looked a pics again
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:13 PM
DennisH87 DennisH87 is offline
 
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So do i need to order a commander styled beavertail grip safety? Whats the difference between a commander gun and a gov. model? Isn't the commander shorter and smaller?
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2009, 09:19 PM
old-lefty old-lefty is offline
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Dennis
The hammer you on the pistol is a rounded or tear drop hammer correct? and you have drop in beaver tail grip safety that is not cut with a releaf notch in the beavertail correct?

when you cock the hammer it is touching and puting downward pressure on the grip safety - the grip safety then moves forward - out of the safe position-as the hammer moves into full cock position correct?

Recomendation.
put the combat grip safety back on the pistol and notch it to allow clearence for the hammer. Many Colts and old Springfields where built that way.

Put the orginal hammer back and bob a little metal off the end to eliminate hammer bite.

Or order a drop in 70 series grip safety - wilson - that is cut to allow clearence for your "commander" hammer.

The beavertail drop in grip safety will not have a totally clean tight fit to the tangs of the frame. (there will be a gap) if you can live with that.

Here is a picture of the MIL SPEC - notched commander hammer look. Works well on ALL my mil spec pistols.


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  #21  
Old 01-10-2009, 01:20 AM
labuyo labuyo is offline
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Judging by the second set of pics posted by the OP, it looks like its a fitted grip safety not drop-in. It also has a notch for the hammer. It follows an Ed Brown GS frame cut.
I know its getting frustrating to the OP, but its really hard to diagnose this thing w/o handling the actual gun. Best thing to do is post a pic of the GS, showing the tab. If its not cut, it might be hitting a part of the frame and/or the trigger bow and not allowing it to move freely.

Last edited by labuyo; 01-10-2009 at 01:57 AM.
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2009, 01:42 AM
labuyo labuyo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisH87 View Post
So do i need to order a commander styled beavertail grip safety? Whats the difference between a commander gun and a gov. model? Isn't the commander shorter and smaller?
No, your grip safety should work with that hammer. Its just a matter of finding what's preventing the GS from moving freely.


Commander = compact

Gov't = fullsize

Officer's = sub-compact
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2009, 02:29 PM
DennisH87 DennisH87 is offline
 
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wow, this pistol is incredibly simple. I detail stripped it and the inner workings are easy to understand and put back together. Plus i learned a few neat tricks form this web site.

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/toolbox.htm
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  #24  
Old 01-21-2009, 07:07 AM
DennisH87 DennisH87 is offline
 
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problem solved. I replaced the grip safety and it operates and functions fine. It looks like who ever did the smithing on the GS botched it up and didn't cut the tangs right becuase i tired to use a differnt hammer and it still did the same thing. Many thanks goes to Old-Lefty in helping me out with my problem.
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