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Curious-why so few Sigs used by LE?

41K views 184 replies 119 participants last post by  MEH92 
#1 ·
reading through many of the LE threads here, I seldom read of LE use of Sigs. They seem to be popular guns in general so I'm curious about why that doesn't seem to hold true for LE?
 
#111 · (Edited)
+1

I would add to this that a lot of new guys are going to gravitate towards the least expensive pistol they can find.

It obviously varies from agency to agency, but a lot of agencies also require you to buy your own uniforms, leather, etc. Combine that with the fact that a lot of new guys don't come into law enforcement from high paying jobs; and that a lot of entry level LEO jobs don't pay that much; I would suspect that if the High Point was on the approved list a surprising number of new kids would be buying them based on price alone.

I have a friend who has the Sig P320. He likes it a lot. I have shot it and it is a very nice pistol from what I can tell so far. I suspect that it will be a big seller for Sig, especially if one of the federal agencies adopts it.

Personally speaking though, I will always stick with metal.
 
#113 ·
We were issued P250s chambered in .40 at an agency I left. The gun was the worst I've ever shot in my life. Gritty 10 pound trigger pull, and we had to guns fail while qualifying. The trigger snapped on one of them and the sear in the other. I shoot competition, I've used 1911's, glocks, SM MP's, throw a dart at a list of gun manufacturer and odds are I've shot at least one of their guns. At least in passing.

I can say with all honesty that within the parameters of "Affordable LE weapons" sig is nowhere near the best option. Glock or SW are the ways to go. The Sig fits my hand great, I'll give it that. But the actual shooting of it? Garbage. The boreline is so high that it's difficult to control without many many days on the range. They are horrible guns to learn on.

Sorry, lost topic focus for a minute there. Bottem line, Sig's suck at the same price point as the other weapons in my experience.
 
#115 ·
Coming from one of the gun carrying agencies of our government, training and such, I'll say the move from Sig is most likely a money issue. Not so much the initial cost but maintenance and training cost. The idea that less training is needed with the Glock has permeated through the ranks and that is the biggest factor. Agencies that had issued and "trained" it's agents with the Sig (or 1911) kept pace but as that experience retired the newbies got Glocks. I don't know of any issue with Sigs of frames cracking etc.
one of the ongoing issues with the Sig is its two different trigger pulls. Many shooters get in their head they can't manage that trigger and they don't. It can be done. We can stack shots with the gun. It takes a little work. One thing I'll say, those who have mastered the Sig system are all much better shots than the Glocksters. Without question. The worst marksmanship comes from Glock shooters. Not Because of the gun or its trigger but because the shooters training and motivation are lacking. I went from 1911's to the Sig I hung up my 1911's for a year and worked to master the Sig. I made the cut. At the Sig instructor school they have very high marksmanship standards. You must prove yourself a Sig shooter before the instructor phase. As it should be.
A Sig has no safety !!?? Neither does a Glock. What a rediculous thing to say. Yes Sig are expensive but at FLEO prices not so bad. The guns were much loved by those who carried them. Just learn to run the gun. Dance with the one that brung ya
 
#122 ·
SIGS are too expensive when compared to plastic guns. Only the Feds can afford them (and yes, the Feds DO carry them. Secret Service carries .357 Sigs).
 
#124 · (Edited)
For the NYPD the Glock 19, S&W 5946 & Sig 226 are the duty weapons. There has been some talk of the S&W M&P being maybe authorized in the future, but so far nothing official.

Duty Revolvers are grandfathered for those who originally carried them, but they are few and far between nowadays.

Glock 26, S&W 3914, S&W 5953, Beretta Mini Cougar & Sig 239 are the authorized off duty weapons. All the non-Glocks are DAO.
As you noted, the Kahr was authorized for off duty use at one point and then de-authorized because of issues with a lot of the Kahrs at the time. I don't believe they were ever reinstated. A lot of officers carry their Glock 19s off duty, for obvious reasons.

In addition, the S&W 640 revolver is an authorized off duty, also in DAO.
 
#142 ·
Duty Revolvers are grandfathered for those who originally carried them, but they are few and far between nowadays.

In addition, the S&W 640 revolver is an authorized off duty, also in DAO.
I noticed in the past the NYPD used revolvers with bobbed hammers (no single action shots). I don't know if revolver users had to get rid of single action capability if they wanted to stay with the revolvers. It wasn't like that when my dad was in.

Does anyone know if .357 magnum loads are allowed with the S&W 640?
 
#126 ·
SIGs are great guns and really safe to use guns for the occasional shooter. They are excellent firearms for LEOs. My son is a novice to handling firearms. I gave him a P 229 Elite to protect himself and his family along with 800 rounds of 9mm hardball to practice with. I also gave him a couple of boxes of Hornady's Critical Duty 135gr +P for SD. I have three grandchildren and wanted to make sure my Son had the best firearm available. I happen to own 1911's and believe they are the best for the experienced and practiced shooter.
 
#127 · (Edited)
Our agency private purchase price was $738 for the .40S&W Sig 229 DAO including shipping, night sights and 6 magazines - delivered right to the office.

Update on NYPD: The G17 Gen 4s have been an option for the last couple of academy classes.
 
#131 ·
Our department carried P229 .40 for about 15 years. Was given mine when I retired. They just went to Glocks (9mm) allegedly because the "weaker" officers were having trouble handling the 0229s. Bet they also got a great deal on trading in the Sigs. Glad they waited until after I retired lol
 
#133 ·
My agency issued Sig P229 DAK in .40 S&W. I hate the DAK and/or the DAO. I also hate to use issued guns, so, I purchased and carried my own Sig P229 Stainless Elite. I recently retired and now I only carry my Kimber Custom TLE/RL II 10mm. I've always preferred a 1911, but, the (short sighted) agency wouldn't allow them.
 
#135 ·
Sigs in police service

My fulltime agency issued Sigs for a long time. 1988-2004 it was Sig 226s in 9mm. 2004-2013 it was Sig 226-DAKs in .40. Then they switched to Glock 22s.

One other local agency issues Sigs, some variety of DAK in .357 Sig caliber.

Most agencies around here do NOT issue weapons. You buy your own gun off the approved list.
 
#138 ·
I joined my department in 2000. We were authorized to carry semi-autos in 9mm, 40 or 45. Our choice. Sigs, S&W, Glock, Beretta, Ruger H&K, 1911 and Browning Hi-Powers were authorized. Anything else required approval from the lieutenant in charge of firearms training. My parents gave me a Sig 220 as a hire gift. In 2003 I made detective and switched to the Sig 245. They were great pistols. Reliable and accurate. But in 2006 our department went to a general issue pistol which was Glock. I don't like the Glock 21 (I have small hands) so I picked the Glock 19 as my pistol. The G19 is the alternate choice. Now the G19 is a good pistol. I like it. For the past ten years I've been carrying it and I have no complaints, but I do miss my Sig.
 
#139 ·
Carried a sig 229 in 357sig for 8-9 years or so. Not the easiest to fire in that cal, lots of pep in duty ammo. Carrying a Kimber for years now with no regrets. The 229 is a fine weapon though, high quality and lights up every time, like the Kimber HD II. Incidentally, the baddies know weapons well. Comments come often regarding the .45.
 
#140 ·
In the early to mid 80's I was issued a P226. I hated that gun. Big, bulky, heavy, and inconsistent trigger pull between the first and subsequent shots. Then a couple of years later Glock almost gave our whole department G17's. They were loved like a long-lost girlfriend.
 
#143 · (Edited)
Peacebutready,

You are correct, at one time NYPD's revolvers were traditional DA/SA. At some point in the '70s or '80s they mandated DA only and bobbed hammers.

The authorized NYPD loads for the the S&W 640 and other revolvers are .38 Special only.
I carry a 640 in .357 Magnum as a backup. Unless one is really dedicated to applying oneself towards this combination then .38 Spcl. loads are the way to go.
 
#156 ·
You are correct, at one time NYPD's revolvers were traditional DA/SA. At some point in the '70s or '80s they mandated DA only and bobbed hammers.
Early 80's AFAIR.

That was the result of an MOS using TV training to cock his wheelgun when he pointed it at a perp. What was expected happened.

It was about that time I removed the SA notch from the hammers of my carry weapons and went DAO.
 
#144 · (Edited)
I agree 100% with INV136 statements regarding switching the weaker shooters to 9mm Glocks.
We did this with both male and female shooters if their performance was marginal or unsatisfactory with the .40 S&W Sigs. While we tried to standardize on the Sig 229R DAKs, some shooters simply shot better with the 9mm Glocks.

Another factor was that Sig screwed the pooch on their 229DAK quality control, and there were so many non-functioning 229s that replacing all the Glocks became problematic.
Because of this, some of the very good shooters elected to stick with their Glocks rather than go Sig.

My personally owned .40 S&W Sig 229 DAO never once jammed in all the years I carried it, but when Sig tried to push out a huge government contract in a very short time their QC went to hell.

Prior to the 229 my duty weapon was a personally owned Sig 220 in .45 ACP. I wish that I could have just stuck with the 220. My best duty semi-auto ever.
 
#145 ·
Another factor was that Sig screwed the pooch on their 229DAK quality control, and there were so many non-functioning 229s that replacing all the Glocks became problematic.

Because of this, some of the very good shooters elected to stick with their Glocks rather than go Sig.

My personally owned .40 S&W Sig 229 DAO never once jammed in all the years I carried it, but when Sig tried to push out a huge government contract in a very short time their QC went to hell.

Prior to the 229 my duty weapon was a personally owned Sig 220 in .45 ACP. I wish that I could have just stuck with the 220. My best duty semi-auto ever.

LEO and firearms enthusiast Hilton Yam pointed out how Sig quality went downhill when they started making them here instead of Germany.
 
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