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  #26  
Old 02-11-2020, 01:39 PM
jglenn jglenn is offline
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David is correct on the 463 crimp with light loads and especially lighter bullets. quite a few folks in Bullseye are now playing with the 160gr H&G 242S bullets.. I've grown to love them at 25yds.
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  #27  
Old 02-11-2020, 02:20 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev_byf View Post

It'll feed in from a Wilson 47D in three different guns I tried them in if I slam the slide closed. It'll feed slowly into two different custom Colts without any issue, but jams in a stock Colt if fed slowly.

Does it look right? Anything I need to adjust before adding powder and going to the range?
Your cartridge is likely hanging up on the case mouth and causing drag in the barrels with less refined feed angles or tighter chambers. Look for nicks on the case mouth. I'd say to try for a crimp of 0.469-0.470 with those SWC bullets.

The shoulder on that bullet looks to be a bit rounded. With my square shouldered 200gr LSWC bullets 1.225 works better and has about a thumbnail thickness of shoulder protruding from the case mouth. Hard to tell from that picture but if you have difficulties perhaps a bit less seating depth is in order.

Good luck!

Edit: I just looked closer at your pics and can see a ding in the case mouth-you need a bit more crimp and as mentioned that diameter is right at the case mouth and is challenging to take...

I also want to point out that if you have any of the shortened (Commander/Officer or maybe even less) 1911 pattern pistols, they typically require stiffer recoil springs and operate at different angles in the feed cycle and what works with a LSWC in a Government Size likely will not work in many of the shorter variants...
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Last edited by Capt. Methane; 02-11-2020 at 02:46 PM.
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  #28  
Old 02-11-2020, 02:22 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Originally Posted by Big Pete10 View Post
Plunk test is better than the gauge.
Preach it Brother!
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  #29  
Old 02-11-2020, 02:36 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_root2000 View Post
25 yards, .463 crimp 5 shots.

Attachment 574470
Getting just under 2" @ 50 yards from sandbags. Gold Cup, Kart Barrel.

Brazos 200 SWC Hi Tek coated,
4.0 Bullseye
1.250"
Depending on the day I might not be able to shoot a handgun from a rest any better than I do standing (it isn't something I ever practiced and sometimes I mess it up from a rested position), I imagine that is a matter of practice. Regardless, that is every bit as good and likely better than my best ever group shot standing, two handed at just about exactly half the distance from a stock Springfield Loaded w/target sights.

That was a best ever...normally if I keep them inside 4" at 13yds I'm pretty dang happy-that's well within "minute of malefactor"!
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Last edited by Capt. Methane; 02-11-2020 at 02:40 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-11-2020, 03:12 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_root2000 View Post
25 yards, .463 crimp 5 shots.

Attachment 574470
Getting just under 2" @ 50 yards from sandbags. Gold Cup, Kart Barrel.

Brazos 200 SWC Hi Tek coated,
4.0 Bullseye
1.250"

I too use the seating stem that pushes the SWC by the driving band.
OAL is set by the barrel and Plunk test. Barrel OUT OF THE GUN. They should go in the barrel and be able to turn,
or fall out when the barrel is turned muzzle up.

Its what works for you. OAL, Crimp and powder charge.
If you go to the bullseye forum listed earlier, you will find pages of loads by masters and Grand masters.
Spending the time trying out different loads helps you get to know your gun.

David


Mighty sweet results !!!!!!!
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  #31  
Old 02-11-2020, 04:27 PM
DWARREN123 DWARREN123 is offline
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Looks like mine. My 1911's have no problem with them but my Ruger SR45 doesn't like them.
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  #32  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:54 PM
Oldbrass33 Oldbrass33 is offline
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Your round looks good, however, itís not always your round. I have a full-size 1911 that runs everything, rn, rnfp, t/c,swc, fp. I have a commander size, very accurate, eats most everything, and I have an Officerís Model that will only shoot plated or plated round nose. I have fed that problem child every combination of bullet, degree of crimp, power level, seating depth, etc. I carry it, Hornady Critical Defense runs very well in it. So I stock 200gr plated rn just for practice in that gun. The others eat rounds like yours pretty much at the practice or steel ranges. They are all loaded with HCD if put into service....car, nightstand, carry, etc.
Any new gun I run a mixed bag for function to see what runs and what doesnít.
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  #33  
Old 02-13-2020, 08:13 PM
Denver_1911 Denver_1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
Uniquetek sells a seating die for Dillon reloading machines that contacts SWC bullets at the shoulder rather than the bullet nose. This is what I use. It is not uncommon to find variances in the length of cast or swaged bullet noses which is why using the shoulder to seat the bullets is advantageous.
I went the cheap route and drilled out the seating insert to accomplish the same thing. It's just a small insert in the die so easy enough to replace it if you change your mind later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev_byf View Post

It'll feed in from a Wilson 47D in three different guns I tried them in if I slam the slide closed. It'll feed slowly into two different custom Colts without any issue, but jams in a stock Colt if fed slowly.
Is it jamming when the round contacts the top of the chamber? That's the problem I've had in the past with SWC bullets. I tried polishing the chamber, different crimp, changing OAL but could never get the bullets to feed 100% during actual firing. I always noticed the SWC had kind of a "ker-chunk" when going into battery, as if the round is slightly binding up during the break over process and slowing the slide. FMJ and even truncated cone bullets have a noticeably smoother feel. I eventually gave up on SWC bullets.
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  #34  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:42 PM
shooter86314 shooter86314 is offline
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taper crimp

Good discussion.
I use a taper crimp die that lightly touches the rim, removing the flare of the expander button, returning the case to a cylindrical shape.
I don't understand the practice of crimping smaller the sum of ( bullet diameter plus double thickness of the brass ), which deforms the bullet. The case should grip the full length of the bullet and prevent movement of the bullet during recoil.
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  #35  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:52 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter86314 View Post
I don't understand the practice of crimping smaller the sum of ( bullet diameter plus double thickness of the brass ), which deforms the bullet.
I've recently run across a discussion of this among bullseye shooters. It's not uncommon for them to taper crimp as low as .463". They say this will not affect the size of the bullet at the base and so will not affect accuracy. Since they shoot powder puff loads this extreme crimp helps the powder to burn more completely.

Like you I shudder at the thought of doing such a thing. Maybe someday I'll work up a batch of reloads using an extreme crimp as a test.
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  #36  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:49 PM
flechero flechero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
I've recently run across a discussion of this among bullseye shooters. It's not uncommon for them to taper crimp as low as .463". They say this will not affect the size of the bullet at the base and so will not affect accuracy. Since they shoot powder puff loads this extreme crimp helps the powder to burn more completely.

Like you I shudder at the thought of doing such a thing. Maybe someday I'll work up a batch of reloads using an extreme crimp as a test.
I don't advocate either way, only to test and see what works for each.

But as for the crimp- think of it like this... adding a tight crimp in the middle of the bearing surface is no worse than a lube groove. As long as the fore and aft are still sized correctly, I think you are good to go.
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  #37  
Old 02-18-2020, 03:07 PM
shooter1911 shooter1911 is offline
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I just went through the same frustrating experience trying to get Bayou High Tech Coated 200gr SWCs to reliably feed. I recently posted on this forum as "need some help", and I got the same advice that you just got. I tried it all from recommended crimp to OAL to anything else that came my way, and I still had reliability issues, because I was missing one component.

In doing my research I kept running into a lot of guys who said they solved their 200gr SWC issues by running their finished loads through a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the final crimp. That means you have to use four dies instead of three, with the Lee die doing all the crimping and the original seating/crimping die only doing the bullet seating. This die also re-sizes your shells again, which was the missing component for my shells to fit in my chambers properly. Many said the die was controversial, and wasn't necessary, and many others said it fixed their problem. I am in the camp that says it absolutely fixed my reliability issues with this particular load. I just loaded and shot several hundred Bayou 200gr SWCs over 5gr and 5.5gr of HP 38 with a crimp of 468-469, and an OAL of 1.230 with a shoulder to bullet base of .920. These were shot in a Colt Series 70, that has been heavily modified, a SA 4' compact 45, and an M&P 45C. I am finishing up the last of my 500 test bullets, and will order 1,000 shortly. I now consider this my everyday go to practice load. If all fails, like it did with me, you might want to consider the Lee Factory Crimp Die for $20. All the info you got on this post has been spot on, and really helped me also. Good luck.
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  #38  
Old 02-18-2020, 04:18 PM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is offline
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I seat and crimp in separate stations. I crimp to .463.

I am a bullseye shooter.
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  #39  
Old 02-18-2020, 04:30 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_root2000 View Post
I seat and crimp in separate stations. I crimp to .463. I am a bullseye shooter.
Do you measure the crimp right at the end of the case? Do you use the Lee factory crimp die?
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  #40  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:50 PM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is offline
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New to reloading SWC...this look right?

I use a taper crimp die, I use calipers to measure. I hold the cartridge in my left hand. I use the caliper on the end of the brass. I turn the cartridge so it moves away from the calipers. I watch the dial to see it jump when it slides off the case at the end of the crimp. It takes a few tries.

I read about 463 on the bullseye forum. It works. Itís needed when I get inconsistent velocities. Most blame the powder measure. Itís really inconsistent combustion.

If you crimp .469 and have a variance of + or - .001Ē, you could be at almost no crimp. At .463 there is no doubt itís crimped well. Getting 2Ē 5 shot groups @ 50 yards using Brazos coated 200 grain SWC.

David

Last edited by david_root2000; 02-18-2020 at 05:53 PM.
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  #41  
Old 02-19-2020, 01:32 PM
AutoTom AutoTom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter1911 View Post
I just went through the same frustrating experience trying to get Bayou High Tech Coated 200gr SWCs to reliably feed. I recently posted on this forum as "need some help", and I got the same advice that you just got. I tried it all from recommended crimp to OAL to anything else that came my way, and I still had reliability issues, because I was missing one component.

In doing my research I kept running into a lot of guys who said they solved their 200gr SWC issues by running their finished loads through a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the final crimp. That means you have to use four dies instead of three, with the Lee die doing all the crimping and the original seating/crimping die only doing the bullet seating. This die also re-sizes your shells again, which was the missing component for my shells to fit in my chambers properly. Many said the die was controversial, and wasn't necessary, and many others said it fixed their problem. I am in the camp that says it absolutely fixed my reliability issues with this particular load. I just loaded and shot several hundred Bayou 200gr SWCs over 5gr and 5.5gr of HP 38 with a crimp of 468-469, and an OAL of 1.230 with a shoulder to bullet base of .920. These were shot in a Colt Series 70, that has been heavily modified, a SA 4' compact 45, and an M&P 45C. I am finishing up the last of my 500 test bullets, and will order 1,000 shortly. I now consider this my everyday go to practice load. If all fails, like it did with me, you might want to consider the Lee Factory Crimp Die for $20. All the info you got on this post has been spot on, and really helped me also. Good luck.
Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.
I do have a question for david_root2000: Not shooting bulleye or any type of competition, would you say a crimp of .469"-.470" is fine? Strictly plinking, occasional range use. Thank you.
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  #42  
Old 02-19-2020, 01:38 PM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is offline
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I would increase the crimp if you are getting "BANG" "bang" If you feel a change in recoil, I would look at the crimp first. .469 works for many.

David
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  #43  
Old 02-19-2020, 04:26 PM
AutoTom AutoTom is offline
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Thank you David. Appreciated.
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  #44  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:56 PM
springerloaded springerloaded is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev_byf View Post
It's been a long time since I've reloaded anything and I never have reloaded SWC rounds in a semi auto.

My friend gave me a Dillon 550B and I am trying to get it setup. I made this dummy round (no primer or powder) using a Bear Creek 185gr HBSWC 45 ACP round.

This is what I have so far:





Cartridge Overall Length is 1.220



Crimp is right around 0.472 to 0.473 depending on how I rotate the round.

They drop freely in and out of a Lyman case gauge.

It'll feed in from a Wilson 47D in three different guns I tried them in if I slam the slide closed. It'll feed slowly into two different custom Colts without any issue, but jams in a stock Colt if fed slowly.

Does it look right? Anything I need to adjust before adding powder and going to the range?
I use the exact same 185gr bullet as well as the bear creek 200gr SWC with great success in my Springfield A1.
The 185gr has an OAL of 1.221 and the 200gr an OAL of 1.225 . I use a Lee taper crimp die at about .471/.472, just enough to remove the flare. I get one FTF every 1000 rounds. Remember that the that the head space is at the case mouth. (Headspace is the distance from the base of the cartridge case to the point on the cartridge case that prevents the cartridge from moving any farther forward in the chamber.)
Some more advanced reloaders may choose a very tight crimp but they have their own reasons and it's probably not for feeding issues (advanced people, correct me if I am wrong) I love bear creek bullets and I get them at my LocalGunStore.
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  #45  
Old 02-20-2020, 10:14 AM
springerloaded springerloaded is offline
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Because bullets have different length and different shoulder height they can not all have the same OAL. So you can't always just follow the published data.
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