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  #1  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:03 PM
bgw45 bgw45 is offline
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Normal variation in OAL, Dillon 650

Friend of mine got a 650 about 2 months ago. He called me and requested assistance with his 45 ACP loads. When he sets up his seating die for an OAL of 1.255 he consistantly gets rounds of from 1.255 to 1.264. The first few are at 1.255 then as he loads more rounds they grow to above 1.260.

I went over to help and re set the seating die ( with a case in each station ). Loads started out then grew in OAL to past 1.260. I checked the screws holding platform to the ram and they checked good. Everything else seemed normal.

What should be the normal expected variation in OAL on a Dillon 650.

I have about .010" swing on my 650 loaded 185gr SWCs. Never worried about em, but never checked till after his issue.

Your thoughts.......
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:32 PM
frogfurr frogfurr is offline
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On my 550 there is some play in the slot in the frame and the tongue of the tool head that fits in this slot. A shim or two of Scotch tape can help.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:19 PM
bgw45 bgw45 is offline
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Thanks, will try it.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:36 PM
Rosco Shooter Rosco Shooter is offline
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frogfurr - I have had similar experiences loading cast swcs in 45 ACP on my Dillon 550. I'll have to try your suggestion the next time I load 45s. Thank you for the information.
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:17 PM
stevemaury stevemaury is offline
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If cast bullets, lube buildup in the seating die top punch.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:23 PM
july19 july19 is offline
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Use case lube and don’t use the first four or five you make - there has to be a piece of brass for each corresponding die. They get longer due to friction between the brass and the dies.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:39 PM
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RetiredRod RetiredRod is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemaury View Post
If cast bullets, lube buildup in the seating die top punch.
I've had this happen, but IIRC, it made the OAL shorter, not longer.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:36 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgw45 View Post
Friend of mine got a 650 about 2 months ago. He called me and requested assistance with his 45 ACP loads. When he sets up his seating die for an OAL of 1.255 he consistantly gets rounds of from 1.255 to 1.264. The first few are at 1.255 then as he loads more rounds they grow to above 1.260.

I went over to help and re set the seating die ( with a case in each station ). Loads started out then grew in OAL to past 1.260. I checked the screws holding platform to the ram and they checked good. Everything else seemed normal.

What should be the normal expected variation in OAL on a Dillon 650.

I have about .010" swing on my 650 loaded 185gr SWCs. Never worried about em, but never checked till after his issue.

Your thoughts.......
My thoughts are that 0.010 variation in OAL shouldn't mean squat WRT function in a properly built 1911.
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2019, 07:27 AM
jmorris jmorris is online now
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What bullet, with what seat die, you are starting with a fully loaded shell plate correct?

A wadcutter, for example is flat as is the seating stem, the boy variation in depth will be from stroke/mechanical tolerance and force required for seating. A case with less neck tension will require less force to seat a bullet than one with more neck tension, so will likely be seated deeper because there is less force opposing the linkage in the press.

If the case has zero neck tension the bullet will fall to the bottom due to gravity.

Let’s say you are using cast RN bullets, the seat stem doesn’t contact the bullet at the point you are measuring from (the very tip). You might try removing the seating stem and measuring that way (see attachments).

Are your results different?
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4C9F2DF3-E857-416C-99E8-413C6AD1DF0E.jpeg   4C115A23-AF8E-4670-A4F6-85038C24C535.jpeg  
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:21 AM
GySgt 7291 GySgt 7291 is offline
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I installed the UniqueTek CNC clamped tool head a few K rounds ago and variation has dropped to 0.003 or less.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:40 AM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is online now
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An excellent shooting high master gave me the advice to leave a .030" shoulder and avoid measuring OAL. That was appreciated and I wish I would have done it sooner. It allows for greater precision in your measuring process for LSWCs. I also started using the RRPMI Dillon insert and found for LSWC they were much more consistent. Measuring OAL can be tricky and using a tool or method like JMorris mentioned is key, otherwise I'll take several measurements in different areas and then average. The other factor is bullet quality. If they're not formed correctly you may get more deviation than desired.

For reloading semi-wadcutters I've been very happy with the RRPMI seating insert from Steve Bathje. He machines them out of 303 Stainless and uses a deep counterbore to minimize the amount of adjustment required with different weight LSWC/WC bullets; because, the insert seats off the shoulder vice nose. You can email Steve Bathje via email or on the Unique Tek's website or Ebay. Better results over the stock (less run out, reduced damage to the bullet and straighter seating) for less than $20.

I've attached photos of the RRPMI insert on the left and the Dillon on the right. They make inserts for various brands, if its not on his store or UniqueTek just email him and he can send it direct.

RRPMI
Owned by Steve Bathje
[email protected]
http://www.ebay.tv/usr/rrpmi







Quote:
Originally Posted by GySgt 7291 View Post
I installed the UniqueTek CNC clamped tool head a few K rounds ago and variation has dropped to 0.003 or less.
https://www.whiddengunworks.com/prod...n-toolheads-2/

I use the Whidden Gunworks setup. Combined with quality dies and a solid bench and good components you can make ammunition that will easily win National Championships in rifle which well exceeds pistol requirements, which are pretty low. David Tubb is probably the best American rifleman in history. He has 11 NRA National High Power Rifle Championships, 30 Silhouette Rifle Championships, 7 Sportsmen's Team Challenge Championships and 6 NRA Long Range Rifle (600-1000 yd.) National Championships, and 2 Wimbledon Cups. All of his ammunition was loaded on a Dillon 550 or 650. John Whidden, three time National High Power Rifle Long Range Champion also used a Dillon progressive. Both are using the floating toolhead from John Whidden that they designed. What many reloaders miss is that the "play" doesn't matter as long as it is not at completion of the ram movement. When inserted the tool head will lock up. Taking the play out early prevents alignment and reduces performance. What does help immensely (for a precision shooter, who live on diminishing returns) is a floating or non-floating tool head, properly machined for your application and appropriate for the type of die your using.

"The Whidden floating die toolheads allow your sizer and seater to float independently and self align on the cartridge as it enters the die, similar to the way a Forster Coax press operates. For all intents and purposes, it is now like running 3 separate single stage presses simultaneously. Doing this has brought my concentricity measurements from .003”-.008” before modification, to .000”-.003” after, with most rounds falling below .002”

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Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 08-11-2019 at 10:23 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:50 AM
flechero flechero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayhawkNavy02 View Post
An excellent shooting high master gave me the advice to leave a .030" shoulder and avoid measuring OAL. That was appreciated and I wish I would have done it sooner. It allows for greater precision in your measuring process for LSWCs.

You can email Steve Bathje via email or on the Unique Tek's website or Ebay. Better results over the stock (less run out, reduced damage to the bullet and straighter seating) for less than $20.
This^^^
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2019, 01:14 PM
bgw45 bgw45 is offline
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When setting up my dies I do have brass in each station. Bullets I'm using are 185 gr. Missouri coated SWC Bulleye #2s. The dies are Dillon with the flat SWC facing the bullet. I really don't have any in either leading or accuracy ( old bad eyes coupled with a float that gets increasingly bigger ) issues. Just suprised me when I checked my loads.
I do appreciate the input from each of you that responded and will share your helpful suggestions with the gent I was attempting to assist.
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