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  #26  
Old 01-27-2019, 05:35 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is offline
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Well we all know there are essential and non essential the big question is how to define each one. If I were to give it a shot I think 30% would be non essential in the first go around. I also think it is silly to pay those that did not work. Sure pay all those they were true public servants and showed up even they were not paid at the time but those that sat at home sorry no work no pay.
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2019, 06:43 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Originally Posted by Timbo3 View Post
Well we all know there are essential and non essential the big question is how to define each one. If I were to give it a shot I think 30% would be non essential in the first go around. I also think it is silly to pay those that did not work. Sure pay all those they were true public servants and showed up even they were not paid at the time but those that sat at home sorry no work no pay.
I agree that the challenge becomes in making those determinations. As I understand it, those deemed "essential" who were ordered to report to work will be paid for the time they worked. Those that had "blue flu" will not be paid for time not worked. Those considered "non essential" are furloughed, and don't get paid....

Id take it a step further- if you were instructed to work, and called in, you best have a sworn (subject to Federal perjury charges) affidavit from your physician stating the nature of your illness and the bedrest required. If not, your fired, period, no other questions asked. The institutional lazyness and sense of privilege and security in government employment needs to be crushedz once and for all. Government workers need to figure out who is serving whom....
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2019, 07:23 PM
snipe10 snipe10 is offline
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How soft so many people actually are
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  #29  
Old 01-27-2019, 07:27 PM
frogfurr frogfurr is offline
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Been through a couple of government shut down's. It's about exciting as watching grass grow.
  #30  
Old 01-27-2019, 07:50 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
And related, I'm more disgusted with Ann Coulter at this point than Nancy P...I have no problem w/Ann to continue to ride POTUS on twitter to get the wall done, but to go on Bill Maher (her self proclaimed friend) with a lefty audience and proclaim Trump is a wimp, and let Maher use her as a puppet to say POTUS is a liar, is just too low, and I've lost all respect for her. Cheeze, just to sell a few more books Ann - really! This is an example of a Stupid-Conservative.
Even though she’s not part of the government, the GOP politicians do the same nonsense vs the left, who always seem to tow the line.
More than anecdotally, that in a nutshell ^^ sums up why Trump hasn’t gotten more of what this country needs done.
  #31  
Old 01-27-2019, 08:26 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Even though she’s not part of the government, the GOP politicians do the same nonsense vs the left, who always seem to tow the line.
More than anecdotally, that in a nutshell ^^ sums up why Trump hasn’t gotten more of what this country needs done.
Yes, so true Plantar...That Dirt-bag-Ryan was a good example. Glad he is finally gone.
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2019, 08:37 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Essential employees verses non essential employees.

To tell you the truth. As a taxpayer I just have to question, why I am paying the salaries of any federal employees that are "non essential".
  #33  
Old 01-27-2019, 08:38 PM
Andyk Andyk is offline
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Who made the list of who is essential and who isn't? Seems to me congress should be on the non essential list with no paychecks. Not that it would effect most of them.
  #34  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:24 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
What did you learn from the Government shut down?
if you're a contractor doing work for gov, you might have to wait on the money they own you

waiting on big bukz now ...that's overdue

..L.T.A.
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  #35  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:41 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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While I don't want to see anyone miss a paycheck. And I do sympathize with the federal workers who do (assuming their job's add value to society in some way), they still have it way, way, way, better than people who work in private-industry. Most in private industry face potential periodic-layoffs every few years for a variate of business-reason's. And guess-what? They don't usually get their job back, they are forced to go find another one on the open-market. Two-different world's, and most who work for the federal government have little idea what it is like "in the real world"....Overall, shrinking government is a good thing if done in a thoughtful fashion. The Left believes in big-government for a variety of reason's, one being as a method to garner votes by creating government job's (even when these job's may not add any economic-value).

Contractor's, whether working in private industry or for the fed's are in another category. Again, I hope all good people have all the employment they can handle (assuming they are adding value in some way to society), but contracting has both extra rewards and risk. The former as an example (usually) being higher pay than regular employee's; the latter (usually) being less job security...
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Last edited by combat auto; 01-28-2019 at 05:52 AM.
  #36  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:13 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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This shutdown reinforced how the legislative bodies demonstrated how they should be considered non essential and therefore not get paid.
  #37  
Old 01-28-2019, 09:08 AM
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That people who usually get a paycheck every two weeks whine more than a farmer that gets paid once a year when their paychecks stop.
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  #38  
Old 01-28-2019, 11:10 AM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
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I learned we have too much government.
  #39  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:44 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
And related, I'm more disgusted with Ann Coulter at this point than Nancy P...I have no problem w/Ann to continue to ride POTUS on twitter to get the wall done, but to go on Bill Maher (her self proclaimed friend) with a lefty audience and proclaim Trump is a wimp, and let Maher use her as a puppet to say POTUS is a liar, is just too low, and I've lost all respect for her. Cheeze, just to sell a few more books Ann - really! This is an example of a Stupid-Conservative.
Well, not exactly stupid. She predicted on Maher that Trump would win the election way back in 03/2016.

https://youtu.be/XbygriZT1Xw

She also predicted that Trump would cave on this shutdown and he did. She reads Trump like a book. She knows that Trump put himself in a terrible situation with the wall that he won't be able to weasel out of.

Steve Bannon was also on Maher. Doesn't make them any less conservative because they're reading Trump and saying exactly what they think.

https://youtu.be/egVlN-kBjZg

Like a lot of Trump supporters you're evaluating the person delivering the message and not the message itself. People need to get over that because it severely limits ones critical thinking.

Both Steve Bannon and Ann Coulter are pretty sharp individuals. Trump wouldn't be in the WH right now if it hadn't been for Bannons political savvy. One of the biggest mistakes Trump ever made was letting Bannon get forced out.

It may be distasteful for a Trump supporter to listen to Ann Coulter but from where I sit she's right on the mark. Trump has some pretty big problems right now with his signature campaign promises. Doesn't much matter what Ann Coulter says, she doesn't vote in congress. When Trump does a face plant it won't be because of Ann Coulter.

Trump is a lousy poker player.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-poker-player/
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Last edited by LostintheOzone; 01-28-2019 at 02:17 PM.
  #40  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:49 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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When I’ve lost or waited for income from different circumstances, ie weather, illness etc.
no one ever paid me or made up the lost income. There’s also times when you might do the work and not get paid and end up “ eating it”. Obviously it’s not hopefully a lot or prolonged time period but I’m hard pressed to be overly concerned when some people missed 2 paychecks. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it’s true. Those “ non essentials” are just being used.
  #41  
Old 01-28-2019, 03:06 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
Well, not exactly stupid. She predicted on Maher that Trump would win the election way back in 03/2016.

https://youtu.be/XbygriZT1Xw

She also predicted that Trump would cave on this shutdown and he did. She reads Trump like a book. She knows that Trump put himself in a terrible situation with the wall that he won't be able to weasel out of.

Steve Bannon was also on Maher. Doesn't make them any less conservative because they're reading Trump and saying exactly what they think.

https://youtu.be/egVlN-kBjZg

Like a lot of Trump supporters you're evaluating the person delivering the message and not the message itself. People need to get over that because it severely limits ones critical thinking.

Both Steve Bannon and Ann Coulter are pretty sharp individuals. Trump wouldn't be in the WH right now if it hadn't been for Bannons political savvy. One of the biggest mistakes Trump ever made was letting Bannon get forced out.

It may be distasteful for a Trump supporter to listen to Ann Coulter but from where I sit she's right on the mark. Trump has some pretty big problems right now with his signature campaign promises. Doesn't much matter what Ann Coulter says, she doesn't vote in congress. When Trump does a face plant it won't be because of Ann Coulter.

Trump is a lousy poker player.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-poker-player/
She is a self-serving idiot because she sell's her conservative "soul" to make a few bucks from going on Mahr. I don't care what she has predicted in the past, Heck, myself and a very-few other's predicted a Trump victory for 2016 well before he was even slightly popular on this forum. Anyone in touch with what is going on in America could have made that prediction.

I'm not surprised you think she is on the mark, because you have never really liked Trump (and often predicted his demise), and that is your business, but you are far from an "objective-observer" applying critical-thinking (which you accuse Trump supporter's of not using), lets just acknowledge that. In fact it is for this reason, giving people who don't like Trump BS propaganda talking points (in exchange for a few additional book sales) which shapes my opinion of her at this point.

And beyond that, she has got to be pretty foolish to think Trump has lost, this is just half-time. He is building his case to succeed with his Executive Order. When it gets litigated, the fact that he tried everything to make a deal with the legislator's to address the emergency at the border will make it an easy case for the Supreme Court to support it.

Poker?-LOL! Think Chess.

Trump is playing chess, the pile of fools, on both sides of the political spectrum, who have discounted him for the last 3 years are playing checkers. Ann Coulter has moved over to that pile and is now one of those fool's.
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Last edited by combat auto; 01-28-2019 at 03:37 PM.
  #42  
Old 01-28-2019, 03:09 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
When I’ve lost or waited for income from different circumstances, ie weather, illness etc.
no one ever paid me or made up the lost income. There’s also times when you might do the work and not get paid and end up “ eating it”. Obviously it’s not hopefully a lot or prolonged time period but I’m hard pressed to be overly concerned when some people missed 2 paychecks. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it’s true. Those “ non essentials” are just being used.
The essentials didn't get paid either. My neighbor works for the FAA.

I use to work in the private sector for a consultant. We used to get paid every month. I was pretty young, about 30 IIRC, and didn't have a lot. I probably could have made it 2 months but missing one check was enough for me. I started looking for another job right away. Month 2 rolled around and we got paid for 30 days, not the 60 that was owed us. I was gone a week later.

The lesson here is if your employer can't make the payroll something is seriously wrong. I've always had a contingency plan. All those federal employees better take a hard look at what's going down because it won't get any better, only worse.
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  #43  
Old 01-28-2019, 03:46 PM
Vos Parate Vos Parate is online now
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Originally Posted by CyberDyneSystems View Post
So you don't consider the TSA to be essential?
I thought we wanted to keep our most permeable borders safe? (ie: airports)

The FBI?
I though we wanted to protect the USA from terrorism. The FBI agents are our first line of defense.

Air traffic controllers?
We should just let the traffic sort itself out?

Speaking of disaster preparedness,. NOAH, we don't want to know when a hurricane is coming? No chance to evacuate, just let it hit and then sort it out?

I think some more research into exactly who was furloughed and who was being forced to work without pay, which is simply unsustainable, and just how dangerous this is to the U.S. is in order.

We were put in harms way the last 30 days. Much more potential harm than anything a border wall could have protected us from.
Nice to hear the lefty side.
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  #44  
Old 01-28-2019, 04:17 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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Botox brain Pelosi has invited Trump to give the SOTU 2/5. More damage control on her part. Trump should tell her, to hold off until this 3 week CR is up.
She must sense defeat in wall funding one way or the other. She knows congressional research has funded many other more expensive projects and Trump will go that route via Emergency funding leaving DACA out.
  #45  
Old 01-28-2019, 04:23 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by Vos Parate View Post
Nice to hear the lefty side.
You must not fly very much.
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  #46  
Old 01-28-2019, 04:28 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
Botox brain Pelosi has invited Trump to give the SOTU 2/5. More damage control on her part. Trump should tell her, to hold off until this 3 week CR is up.
She must sense defeat in wall funding one way or the other. She knows congressional research has funded many other more expensive projects and Trump will go that route via Emergency funding leaving DACA out.
Yep, anyone willing to go past the popular talking points from the left, and even some from the right, and think this through can see that Trump has enhanced his political position dramatically with his speech/deal last Friday...

Here is some more good new from the acting AG regarding the Witch-Hunt:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d64167ff9da4
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  #47  
Old 01-28-2019, 04:57 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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She is a self-serving idiot because she sell's her conservative "soul" to make a few bucks from going on Mahr. I don't care what she has predicted in the past, Heck, myself and a very-few other's predicted a Trump victory for 2016 well before he was even slightly popular on this forum. Anyone in touch with what is going on in America could have made that prediction.

I'm not surprised you think she is on the mark, because you have never really liked Trump (and often predicted his demise), and that is your business, but you are far from an "objective-observer" applying critical-thinking (which you accuse Trump supporter's of not using), lets just acknowledge that. In fact it is for this reason, giving people who don't like Trump BS propaganda talking points (in exchange for a few additional book sales) which shapes my opinion of her at this point.

And beyond that, she has got to be pretty foolish to think Trump has lost, this is just half-time. He is building his case to succeed with his Executive Order. When it gets litigated, the fact that he tried everything to make a deal with the legislator's to address the emergency at the border will make it an easy case for the Supreme Court to support it.

Poker?-LOL! Think Chess.

Trump is playing chess, the pile of fools, on both sides of the political spectrum, who have discounted him for the last 3 years are playing checkers. Ann Coulter has moved over to that pile and is now one of those fool's.
Well I don't think the socialists are playing checkers. Looks like they're all in lock step while the GOP is screwing the pooch. All you have to do is look at how they vote in the senate.

There are a lot of people still betting on Trump. Lots of them are still betting that he will build that wall. Heck, some are probably still betting Mexico will pay for it like he promised. How gullible does someone have to be to believe that crap? Do you honestly think congress is going to fund that wall with dems running the house now? If you're a strategic chess thinker tell me what his next move is. If he had one he would have already made it. Nope, he has no next move. He just called a time out.

I knew Trump could never deliver on that promise and so far I've been right. It doesn't matter what you or I think, it's what he said he would do, what people thought he would do and what he actually delivered.

Trumps now half way thru his contract and no wall. I guess we'll just have to see if he's a BS artist like Coulter claims or the great wall builder like he claims.

And why would he be betting on the supreme court? That's not a strategy, that's a 50/50 shot at best. They just let him hang on his DACA EO and that's been going on for over a year.

Whatever Trump does I wish he would get on with it instead of kicking the can down the road.
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Last edited by LostintheOzone; 01-28-2019 at 05:46 PM.
  #48  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:05 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
There are a lot of people still betting on Trump. Lots of them are still betting that he will build that wall. Heck, some are probably still betting Mexico will pay for it like he promised. How gullible does someone have to be to believe that crap? Do you honestly think congress is going to fund that wall with dems running the house now? If you're a strategic chess thinker tell me what his next move is. If he had one he would have already made it. Nope, he has no next move. He just called a time out.

I knew Trump could never deliver on that promise and so far I've been right. It doesn't matter what you or I think, it's what he said he would do, what people thought he would do and what he actually delivered.

Trumps now half way thru his contract and no wall. I guess we'll just have to see if he's a BS artist like Coulter claims or the great wall builder like he claims.
His Administration has already found the money in various departments to use if he issues the E.O. This is a no-brainier, only the Trump Hater's can't see through the talking points, but what else is new, same mentality they always had since he decided to run for POTUS...
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Last edited by combat auto; 01-28-2019 at 08:42 PM.
  #49  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:21 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
Well I don't think the socialists are playing checkers. Looks like they're all in lock step while the GOP is screwing the pooch. All you have to do is look at how they vote in the senate.

There are a lot of people still betting on Trump. Lots of them are still betting that he will build that wall. Heck, some are probably still betting Mexico will pay for it like he promised. How gullible does someone have to be to believe that crap? Do you honestly think congress is going to fund that wall with dems running the house now? If you're a strategic chess thinker tell me what his next move is. If he had one he would have already made it. Nope, he has no next move. He just called a time out.

I knew Trump could never deliver on that promise and so far I've been right. It doesn't matter what you or I think, it's what he said he would do, what people thought he would do and what he actually delivered.

Trumps now half way thru his contract and no wall. I guess we'll just have to see if he's a BS artist like Coulter claims or the great wall builder like he claims.

And why would he be betting on the supreme court? That's not a strategy, that's a 50/50 shot at best. They just let him hang on his DACA EO and that's been going on for over a year.

Whatever Trump does I wish he would get on with it instead of kicking the can down the road.
How is the GOP “screwing the pooch “ Trumps fault? I said it in post #30, it’s not.
Think again before you start equating a wall/barrier/border enhancement to
Things like “shovel ready”, or “ if you like your Dr you can keep your Dr”, which were the biggest frauds perpetuated on the entire country.

Is having to get to scotus on everything good, No, but at least he’s greatly improved it, or do you disagree with that, too?

You’re Monday morning quarterbacking.
  #50  
Old 01-28-2019, 08:00 PM
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
How is the GOP “screwing the pooch “ Trumps fault? I said it in post #30, it’s not.
Think again before you start equating a wall/barrier/border enhancement to
Things like “shovel ready”, or “ if you like your Dr you can keep your Dr”, which were the biggest frauds perpetuated on the entire country.

Is having to get to scotus on everything good, No, but at least he’s greatly improved it, or do you disagree with that, too?

You’re Monday morning quarterbacking.
Why does everyone keep equating Trump with Obama? I don't get that.

If congress controls the funds then you have to get congress to appropriate the funds. It's no different than going to the bank for a loan. If you try to extort the funds from the bank you either aren't going to get them or at some point someone is going to find out and you get charged for fraud like Cohen did. Never a good idea to lie or maybe that isn't a value anymore, I don't know. Trump made enemies with the bankers from day one. Big mistake cause now he's setting there with his johnson in his hand wondering if he can declare a nat'l emergency and get it past the courts. Who knows, he might be able to but just the fact that he can't pull the trigger tells me he's stalling. Maybe some people told him it wasn't a good idea which it probably isn't. Getting it tied up in court for a year or two doesn't get your project built.

I've dealt with a few projects that had to go through the courts and it adds about 2 years to contract/mobilization. Trump doesn't have two years. He's already squandered two years to get to no from the bank (congress). Now he's looking to the courts. He may not have funding issues with a nat'l emergency but he has environmental groups that are waiting to take him to court. You know they just didn't just disappear when he became president. Ryan Zinke (Interior) resigned when he had to start paying attorneys to defend his unethical real estate deals. If you don't think the courts can delay or kill a project you just haven't been involved with any road construction.

Trump is running out of time to deliver his promised wall. If you can't score in the first half why would anyone think you're going to win the game in the second half?

People are making money betting he won't. Limbaugh, Coulter, and others. They made money betting he would get elected, now they're making money betting he can't deliver. That's the political commentary biz. Coulter isn't the only one writing books. I think Trump wrote one also when he started to get politically motivated.
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