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  #1  
Old 09-17-2017, 05:50 PM
decan8 decan8 is offline
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Trigger job novice

Took my gun apart today to reduce the trigger pull. I cut one coil from the main spring and bent the center tab of the leaf spring to reduce trigger pull. I polished sear hammer surfaces. Went up to the range and the gun is now hanging on the half cock at times. So I messed something up and could use some help.
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2017, 08:43 PM
PD5523 PD5523 is offline
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Cutting springs is not preferred. Springs are readily available in various weights and relatively inexpensive - get the weight you want but avoid cutting coils.

Often interference with half cock suggests an over travel stop on the trigger is set too close and requires it to be backed off a bit.


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  #3  
Old 09-17-2017, 09:17 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is online now
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That's not a trigger job.

Google: "Weigand 2.5 trigger job"

This is a fairly good tutorial.

But it is more for a Bulle-eye gun.

It isn't necessary to cut coils to get a crisp 3.5# trigger pull.

All the best,
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2017, 09:19 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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You need to provide more information. Brand, model, and any special features or modifications for a start. PD5523 has listed the simplest and most common problem. That happens with Series 80 type systems a lot when the owners don't know how to tune around its peculiarities.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:28 PM
Alland Alland is offline
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If the sear was polished without using a good sear fixture it may be causing the problem.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2017, 09:47 PM
blastjv blastjv is offline
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Why would you do a "trigger job" without understanding what you were doing?
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  #7  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:32 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastjv View Post
Why would you do a "trigger job" without understanding what you were doing?
Rather blunt in presentation but ^ this ^

You will need to replace the spring you cut and add some tension to the sear spring you bent. Then you can see if the sear/ hammer have been polished beyound use.
Please repost your resullts and we will try to help you out to correct the issue.
May need pics of the sear and hammer also at that point.
Joe
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  #8  
Old 09-18-2017, 08:58 AM
gunnut606 gunnut606 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post

You will need to replace the spring you cut
Joe

Just because he cut 1 coil off of it ? Baloney !

The primary purpose of the main spring is to ignite the primer, if it's not misfiring (not the problem the OP is having) then it's working fine.

.
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  #9  
Old 09-18-2017, 11:54 AM
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Snorkel Snorkel is offline
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Main springs are cheap. I'd replace it just so I'd know how many lbs it is.
If they were expensive, then I'd probably keep the cut one. But that's me....
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  #10  
Old 09-18-2017, 11:59 AM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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I've often thought of this, the things that really make a difference in trigger pulls and the springs were not one of them.

You sit down with your gun just to admire it or something, not loaded, hammer up and you play with the trigger... you can feel the full tension of both springs.

It's not much at all and to be bending them to reduce trigger pull is just not a wise thing to do in my opinion. How much can you really save anyway? a few ounces at best? The tension of those two springs serve important functions.

For BBBBill to answer:

What's the percentage ratio in trigger pull weight reduction can you attribute to the following:

Sear/Disc Spring?
Mainspring?
Sear/Hammer interface?

Total being 100% of what, a 1 or 2 pounds reduction maybe?

Which of the 3 will make the greatest difference?
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:21 PM
decan8 decan8 is offline
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Thanks

Thanks for the input. I'm not sure when I'll get back into working on my gun it's too nice out to be hanging in the shop. I know I could just put in a drop in kit. But don't have a lot of money right now. I did not take any metal off the sear or hammer just used 800 grit sand paper to smooth the surfaces. Oh and the gun is a AMT hard baller.
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:13 PM
log man log man is offline
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Originally Posted by RUSS123 View Post
I've often thought of this, the things that really make a difference in trigger pulls and the springs were not one of them.

You sit down with your gun just to admire it or something, not loaded, hammer up and you play with the trigger... you can feel the full tension of both springs.

It's not much at all and to be bending them to reduce trigger pull is just not a wise thing to do in my opinion. How much can you really save anyway? a few ounces at best? The tension of those two springs serve important functions.

For BBBBill to answer:

What's the percentage ratio in trigger pull weight reduction can you attribute to the following:

Sear/Disc Spring?
Mainspring?
Sear/Hammer interface?

Total being 100% of what, a 1 or 2 pounds reduction maybe?

Which of the 3 will make the greatest difference?
All things contribute, so all things can be adjusted to lower the pull weight.
The Sear/Hammer interface can reduce little or a lot depending how they are to begin with. If the sear primary is off just a little from spec. it can cause the hammer to slightly cock more when pulled. This interface can be measured alone to determine just how much of the trigger pull is the sear pulling out from the hammer hooks. Once you have checked this you can try a lighter main spring and weigh the difference.

The center leaf must maintain enough tension to resist trigger bounce, and the left sear leaf can be as light as will maintain some tension throughout the sears range of motion, so check with the sear in half cock to be sure there is some tension at this point.

So, yes they all make a difference.

LOG
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  #13  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:00 PM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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Originally Posted by log man View Post
All things contribute, so all things can be adjusted to lower the pull weight.
The Sear/Hammer interface can reduce little or a lot depending how they are to begin with. If the sear primary is off just a little from spec. it can cause the hammer to slightly cock more when pulled. This interface can be measured alone to determine just how much of the trigger pull is the sear pulling out from the hammer hooks. Once you have checked this you can try a lighter main spring and weigh the difference.

The center leaf must maintain enough tension to resist trigger bounce, and the left sear leaf can be as light as will maintain some tension throughout the sears range of motion, so check with the sear in half cock to be sure there is some tension at this point.

So, yes they all make a difference.

LOG
OK, thanks for the response.

What I was looking for was, in general, which of the three poses the greatest resistance. I would think the sear/hammer interface and again, I realize, that resistance is very much due to the pressure exerted by the hammer at the interface. You don't want to compromise FP strike too much.

I can feel the spring pressure alone and compare it to the overall feel of the break when cocked... it's minimal by comparison even though contributing overall. Just saying!
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:06 PM
log man log man is offline
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Originally Posted by RUSS123 View Post
OK, thanks for the response.

What I was looking for was, in general, which of the three poses the greatest resistance. I would think the sear/hammer interface and again, I realize, that resistance is very much due to the pressure exerted by the hammer at the interface. You don't want to compromise FP strike too much.

I can feel the spring pressure alone and compare it to the overall feel of the break when cocked... it's minimal by comparison even though contributing overall. Just saying!
Too many variables to say which one, I have given you the route to take to better understand which and what contributes how much to the trigger pull of a particular 1911. Try it.

LOG
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:07 PM
Alland Alland is offline
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On a good trigger job the hammer/sear interface contributes about 13 to 16 ounces to the trigger pull. That will only vary a few ounces with a change to the mainspring.

The remainder of the trigger pull, whether you go for a 2 pound pull or a 5 pound pull, is provided by the sear spring.
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  #16  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:08 PM
Alland Alland is offline
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Duplicate post
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Last edited by Alland; 09-18-2017 at 04:09 PM. Reason: duplicate post
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  #17  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:22 PM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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Originally Posted by log man View Post
Too many variables to say which one, I have given you the route to take to better understand which and what contributes how much to the trigger pull of a particular 1911. Try it.

LOG
We'll do...
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alland View Post
On a good trigger job the hammer/sear interface contributes about 13 to 16 ounces to the trigger pull. That will only vary a few ounces with a change to the mainspring.

The remainder of the trigger pull, whether you go for a 2 pound pull or a 5 pound pull, is provided by the sear spring.
Don't neglect what surface drag of the various components contribute. The trigger bow in its track, the trigger bow to the disconnector face, etc. You can do quite a bit of good to a trigger just by smoothing out those surfaces. Polishing them really.

I got my SA loaded to a reliable 4 lbs 3 ounces doing just that. I have not touched the angles or adjusted the sear spring, yet
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:31 PM
Autonomous Autonomous is offline
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Originally Posted by decan8 View Post
I did not take any metal off the sear or hammer just used 800 grit sand paper to smooth the surfaces. .
You mention smoothing surfaces. Did that include the disconnector, trigger bow and track, sear spring, etc. that Geologist mentions above?
My experience mirrors his.
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:35 PM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Alland View Post
On a good trigger job the hammer/sear interface contributes about 13 to 16 ounces to the trigger pull. That will only vary a few ounces with a change to the mainspring.

The remainder of the trigger pull, whether you go for a 2 pound pull or a 5 pound pull, is provided by the sear spring.
Like LOG points out, too many variables and gun specific to make a general statement and what I'm stating is base on my gun alone.
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:06 PM
Alland Alland is offline
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Originally Posted by RUSS123 View Post
Like LOG points out, too many variables and gun specific to make a general statement and what I'm stating is base on my gun alone.
The numbers that I quoted are based on my experience of doing a few dozen trigger jobs.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:15 PM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Alland View Post
The numbers that I quoted are based on my experience of doing a few dozen trigger jobs.
I appreciate that.

Going back to what you said then. It would seem to imply that the sear spring alone contributes to a great deal more than what I would have ever thought unless I'm reading it wrong??? Am I wrong?
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:24 PM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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Originally Posted by decan8 View Post
I did not take any metal off the sear or hammer just used 800 grit sand paper to smooth the surfaces.
Not possible. If you polish something with any abrasive you remove metal. That is how it gets smoother. It may not be measurable with your equipment but some ammount of metal is gone. Fact.
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:31 PM
Alland Alland is offline
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Originally Posted by RUSS123 View Post
I appreciate that.

Going back to what you said then. It would seem to imply that the sear spring alone contributes to a great deal more than what I would have ever thought unless I'm reading it wrong??? Am I wrong?
The sear spring according to my experience has the biggest effect. That is assuming that the hammer and sear are correctly prepped with adequate pre-travel over travel.

I changed a mainspring housing once and the trigger pull changed by almost 3 pounds. The mainspring housing applies the force to the sear spring and no two are exactly the same size.

I had a friend who competed with an STI 2011 in 40 S&W. He had two sear springs, one adjusted to a 2 pound trigger pull for USPSA and one adjusted to about 4.5 pounds to use it as his duty weapon.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:00 PM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Alland View Post
The sear spring according to my experience has the biggest effect. That is assuming that the hammer and sear are correctly prepped with adequate pre-travel over travel.

I changed a mainspring housing once and the trigger pull changed by almost 3 pounds. The mainspring housing applies the force to the sear spring and no two are exactly the same size.

I had a friend who competed with an STI 2011 in 40 S&W. He had two sear springs, one adjusted to a 2 pound trigger pull for USPSA and one adjusted to about 4.5 pounds to use it as his duty weapon.
1. Assuming yes. Still blows my mind. So opposite of what I thought.

2. The mainspring housing? Holds down the spring at a certain point. I can see if one housing were holding a spring down higher than another housing, it would increase the tension because it's effectively shorter. I wouldn't think housings could be all so much different but I guess it wouldn't require much of a difference. I think the change would even be exponential.

3. That much difference from just changing out the spring bent accordingly. Amazed!
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