200gr LSWC, how much .W231 for IDPA? - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-25-2016, 01:11 AM
Blue Duck Blue Duck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 425
200gr LSWC, how much .W231 for IDPA?

I am just looking for a consensus on how much Win. 231 to load behind a 200gr lead semi-wad-cutter to make major in IDPA.

I shot 231 many years ago, then switched to Bullseye, in IPSC back when the powerfactor was still 175,000. I was able to buy 8lbs of .231 recently so I am back to shooting .231, since Bullseye seems hard to find.

What's confusing me, a little is the info I have seems to show as much .231 as I used to shoot to make major, as best I remember. But now I am wanting to load down a little bit closer to the 165,000 powerfactor, but some of the loads seem as high as I used to shoot (I thought) to make major when we shot the 175,000 powerfactor.

Does anyone here still use .231 for IDPA and if so, what's the min. in an average 5 inch 1911 to get there? As an example the Lyman book shows 5.4 grs to make 769 ft per second and I need to make 825 ft per second, but unless my memory is wrong, I don't think I used to shoot over 5.6 grs to make the required 875 ft per second for the 175,000 powerfactor. Way back then 5.6 was the often quoted standard load that I recall to make the higher major factor.

Before looking into it, I just figured that 5 gr to 5.2 would get me there, but it doesn't look like it will.

Bottom like is, how much .231 to make IDPA, now days with the 200gr SWC?
__________________
NRA Life Member, Endowment

Last edited by Blue Duck; 09-25-2016 at 01:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-25-2016, 09:30 AM
apipeguy's Avatar
apipeguy apipeguy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Michigan
Age: 64
Posts: 5,023
Use 231 all the time but don't load for IDPA. However, I read a thread within the last week that had this load info. Do some looking and I think you'll find it.

Look in the Reloading Bench.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=659833
__________________
David

NRA Patron Life Member

Last edited by apipeguy; 09-25-2016 at 09:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-25-2016, 02:00 PM
Blue Duck Blue Duck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 425
Well, I realized I still had a can of older Bullseye that needs shot up, so I for now I loaded some test rounds with 4.9 grs behind the 200gr cast semi-wadcutter. Since my old standard load was 5g of bullseye behind the same bullet, I figured 4.9 would be a good starting point.

I changed out my 18.5 pound spring for a 16lb colt spring, and all seems well, with very nice recoil impulse, and slide locks back, on empty, no issues.

So, I guess I will just stay with this until I run out of Bullseye.
__________________
NRA Life Member, Endowment
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 09-25-2016, 08:44 PM
Ken6PPC Ken6PPC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 365
I have notes from shooting some 205 gr. LSWC bullets with 5.5 grains of HP-38 (EXACT same powder as WW 231) over my Oehler 35P chronograph.

I used my 5" Kimber Classic Custom Royal, and got an average of 881 fps, with a SD of 17.



If I am calculating this correctly, that speed and weight bullet yields a PF of 181,000

Last edited by Ken6PPC; 09-25-2016 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Added PF info
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-26-2016, 08:49 AM
BillD BillD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Age: 65
Posts: 27,705
Match Load
Bayou Bullets/SNS Coated 200gr LSWC
5.7 gr WW231, 1.250 OAL, 860fps
172PF

Out of MY guns
__________________
You can make excuses or you can make ready.
USPSA TY41889
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-27-2016, 12:43 AM
cindynles cindynles is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 121
Xtreme (plated) 200gr SWC
5.5gr W231
1.250" OAL
831 FPS (10 shot AVG)
11.2 SD
166 PF
Shot out of a 5" 1911
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-27-2016, 06:40 AM
liggett liggett is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,836
I use 5.6gr of 231 behind a plated 200gr SWC and CCI SPP's to make 170PF for USPSA single stack and IDPA cdp. (SA RO 5") A lead or coated lead bullet would probably make it with less. Disclaimer: your barrel may be faster OR slower. A chronograph is your friend.
JD
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-27-2016, 12:48 PM
ftw46 ftw46 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Georgia
Age: 73
Posts: 463
Bayou 200 SWC 1.250 5.7 HP38/W231 Average 902 for a 180 PF out of a 5" Kimber 1911 77 degrees outside!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-27-2016, 12:59 PM
mike merkler mike merkler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: South Texas
Posts: 356
I run 5.2 gr of hp38(same as 231) with a 200 lswc bullet and the same with a bayou bullet 200 gr swc. Oal is 1.245-1.250. Very accurate and makes major.
Try about 10-20 of them and see for yourself. I run in a mac 3011 45 acp double stack with a bull barrel.
Imvho
thanks,
mike
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-28-2016, 07:59 PM
Blue Duck Blue Duck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 425
Thank you, fellows
for sharing your load data with me.
__________________
NRA Life Member, Endowment
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-28-2016, 08:47 PM
dobek dobek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 73
I am pushing 230 FMJ with 231 -

Shoot CDP Sharpshooter (my last classifier I was 6 seconds off expert)

At 4.3g I get 720FPS on a hot day --- If the weather cools, I don't make power factor (717FPS)

At 4.6 I get 740FPS on a hot day (93 degrees)

Shooting Colt Combat Elite

Steve

And as usual, Your mileage may vary....
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-28-2016, 09:11 PM
Kosh75287 Kosh75287 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Plano, TX USA
Posts: 1,065
Err on the side of caution, when loading, and get a chronograph when you're able. It's probably better to recover from recoil a fraction of a second more slowly than to be disqualified for under-powered ammo. The other thing to remember is that, for a given bullet weight launched at a given muzzle velocity from the same pistol, the load with the least recoil will be the one with the lightest powder charge. Is there enough difference for it to matter? I'M not capable of telling a difference, but my skill level is also on the low side.

Last edited by Kosh75287; 09-28-2016 at 09:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-28-2016, 09:40 PM
Blue Duck Blue Duck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosh75287 View Post
Err on the side of caution, when loading, and get a chronograph when you're able. It's probably better to recover from recoil a fraction of a second more slowly than to be disqualified for under-powered ammo. The other thing to remember is that, for a given bullet weight launched at a given muzzle velocity from the same pistol, the load with the least recoil will be the one with the lightest powder charge. Is there enough difference for it to matter? I'M not capable of telling a difference, but my skill level is also on the low side.
I can tell a difference between 165,000 powerfactor ammo and the old 175,000 PF that we had to make back in the 80's when shooting IPSC at time. But I don't know if I can tell the difference between 200gr and 230gr loaded to the same powerfactor.

I am just shooting at a local shoot, and not worried about being disqualified, but I do want to shoot legal loads, but I don't want to shoot heavier loads that cost me time, because as an example, I shot last night and won or placed pretty well, but as an example one shooter I was using as a litmus test to measure my own performance, I beat by 2 or 3 seconds raw time with two down and he had 0 down. At a half a point per point down I lost 1 second, but still won by 1 second. I believe if I had been shooting factory hardball, I would have lost.
__________________
NRA Life Member, Endowment
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-28-2016, 11:06 PM
Gman57 Gman57 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 458
5.6
__________________
Old enough to know better... young enough to do it anyway
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-29-2016, 07:34 PM
Blue Duck Blue Duck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman57 View Post
5.6
I hear what you are saying, and you may indeed be correct, but I am a little confused, because I remember back in the early 80's it was the general consensus that 5.6 grs would make major behind a 200gr LSWC and that was when the power factor was 175,000.

And they checked our loads fairly often and I never got called out for light loads.
So two or three things are going on here:
1. Either my memory is wrong, but I loaded 1000's or rounds and I don't think I am remembering wrong, but I might be.

2. Winchester 231 is not as hot as it used to be, and that could be right.

3. You have a slow barrel, or you are allowing for a lot of cushion.

But it just seems like 5.2 or maybe 5.3 or .4 would be a lot closer to the 165,000 power factor.

What velocity are you actually getting? But then again, Since you are a lot farther north then I am, possibly the cooler weather requires a couple more tenths of a grain to be sure you are there?
__________________
NRA Life Member, Endowment

Last edited by Blue Duck; 09-29-2016 at 07:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved