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  #1  
Old 04-03-2020, 11:52 AM
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TominMO TominMO is offline
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+P ammo for 1911s?

Did a search on this and didn't come up with anything. Stopped looking after three pages of posts though.

So in general, can we say that any 1911 can handle +P SD ammo well? I have a couple of Rocks (9mm and .45ACP) and want to make sure before buying any. For sure the 9mm should be fine I would think, after all it's just 9mm, but was wondering about the .45.

Maybe a dumb kweschun but inquiring minds gotta know.....
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:57 AM
1911_Bandit 1911_Bandit is offline
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My Springfield owners manuals specifically said that +P was ok. My ACW owners manual says +P and +P+ are NOT recommended. It varies by builders and it will also vary by owners. Some owners will disregard ANY advice in their manual.
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:58 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Usually the manufacturer will include that information.

In the literature that comes with the gun. If you got your guns second hand, or otherwise do not have the literature. You can try contacting the company.
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  #4  
Old 04-03-2020, 12:10 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Since you're asking: "in general" I would say yes, any modern 1911 in good working order from a repuatable manufacturer should be able to handle +p pressures...
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:11 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Originally Posted by 1911_Bandit View Post
My Springfield owners manuals specifically said that +P was ok. My ACW owners manual says +P and +P+ are NOT recommended. It varies by builders and it will also vary by owners. Some owners will disregard ANY advice in their manual.
Manuals need to be taken with a grain or salt- they're written to be lawyer proof....
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:28 PM
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Both manuals give the very helpful advice that the guns are chambered for ammunition in "the round nose configuration". That's pretty much all they say.

I'm thinking that the fact that Armscor makes 10mm Rocks kinda implies that anything 9mm is GTG and probably also true with the .45s. I doubt that the 10mm guns have different, more robust parts in them than the other calibers, except for springs and barrels of course.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:36 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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Whenever upping the ante (so to speak), I think it can be wise to consider the planned volume usage and desired longevity of the gun.

It is one thing to look at these matters from a less than 5,000 round lifetime standpoint, but at least somewhat different when viewing from a 50,000+ round lifetime standpoint.

Frame material can also be a factor to consider.
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  #8  
Old 04-03-2020, 01:02 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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I have 5500 rounds of +P through my carry gun and most of my guns all have good shares of it and a decent amount of .450 SMC and .45 super as well for some of them with no issues.

If it's a quality gun it won't care, I would not do it too much with Alum frame guns and avoid .45 super in non-steel non-fullsize/comped guns.
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  #9  
Old 04-03-2020, 01:22 PM
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I'm from St. Louis too and yeah, that IS a dumb kweschun. If a .45 ACP isn't powerful enough for you then just buy a .44 Magnum and stop fooling around with this piddly military junk......... The irony here is that the guys who designed the .45 ACP were working on one goal - to design a cartridge that would drop an enemy cavalryman's HORSE because soldiers were for the most part still riding horses at that time. The rounds were tested on steers and horses (and a few human cadavers hanging from a rope). If it will drop a horse it will almost certainly work pretty well on a human. +P is mostly just marketing and it WILL shorten the service life of your gun if you shoot enough of it. You don't need it - standard pressure loads will do a fine job if you can place them where they need to go. If you cannot then caliber does not matter at all.

Last edited by drail; 04-03-2020 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:30 PM
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In general, modern 1911s with steel frames are perfectly okay to use +P. I would not use it in any vintage 1911 (made before the 1950s). While you can use it in alloy frames as well it will increase wear and tear by an objectionable amount.

As the others have said, there really is no advantage to using +P .45 as standard-pressure has proven just as effective, and there isn't the harsh recoil and stress on the gun to worry about.
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2020, 01:43 PM
1911_Bandit 1911_Bandit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Manuals need to be taken with a grain or salt- they're written to be lawyer proof....
Agreed. Just trying to point out that builders opinions vary from one end to the other.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2020, 01:55 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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The high power ammo does work better and allows capability decisively greater than normal, it's not just gimmicks or unneeded wear.

[email protected] will take down animals more easily and ultra velocity loads bypass soft armor
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2020, 01:56 PM
Sierra 49er Sierra 49er is offline
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Seems like the match load of 45 ACP using 8 gr of Titegroup with a 230 grain RN works just fine. In fact, the only pistol I would choose for stopping power over the 1911 using my match load would be a Ruger Single Six 30 Cal Carbine using 11.3 gr of H4227 and Sierra 30 Caliber 110gr hollow points.
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:05 PM
Pat-inCO Pat-inCO is offline
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IMO, take it as such, if you "need" +P, you need a more powerful caliber.

Will a good 1911 handle it? Sure will, but if you think you "need" more power, why not
look at a more powerful cartridge?

A lot of LEOs use +P, but . . . once again IMO . . . that is from a lack of knowledge rather
than a true need. It keeps the not completely knowledgable, mollified.


Let's think back to 1986 (IIRC) and the FBI shooting in FL where several agents were
killed after a mope received a fatal wound (just not immediately incapacitating). The FBI
put out a set of criteria for penetration, and a bunch of other things and requested input
from the gun manufacturers. End result was the selection of the 10mm, until the agents
started shooting them . . . . long story short, that's where the .40S&W came from. - - - One
other item in the FBI evaluation was a summary from one individual that said he did not
understand why the .45ACP was not chosen. The difference between the 10mm and the
.45ACP was a few, single digit percentage points between them.

Back to your question: YES the majority of 1911s will handle +P.
BUT it costs you a lot more for an infinitesimal increase usable in power.
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra 49er View Post
Seems like the match load of 45 ACP using 8 gr of Titegroup with a 230 grain RN works just fine. In fact, the only pistol I would choose for stopping power over the 1911 using my match load would be a Ruger Single Six 30 Cal Carbine using 11.3 gr of H4227 and Sierra 30 Caliber 110gr hollow points.
Um...8 grains of titegroup? Makes my loads of 5 seems kinda weak. Does 8 leave any room for seating lead? Or maybe you're using 2 casings with 4 gr each.
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:24 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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In my life I've heard more dumb answers than dumb questions.

Because asking a question means you admit to be coming from a position of less knowledge.

And to answer a question is suggesting that you have superior knowledge. So you better have a solid grasp of the subject, or admit you are no authority in your answer.

This is my lowly, uneducated opinion.
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:58 PM
DR505 DR505 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
In my life I've heard more dumb answers than dumb questions.

Because asking a question means you admit to be coming from a position of less knowledge.

And to answer a question is suggesting that you have superior knowledge. So you better have a solid grasp of the subject, or admit you are no authority in your answer.

This is my lowly, uneducated opinion.
This is a very educated reply.
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2020, 03:24 PM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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I use an 18.5lb spring for +P. Never had a problem with std level loads with that spring either.
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2020, 03:56 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Note that Federal catalogs .45 230 HST at 890 fps and Personal Defense Hydra Shok at 900 fps. That is already 40-50 fps over hardball.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:42 PM
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Mainly I was asking as an academic question; for example if I accidentally bought a box of +P, not noticing that it wasn't the standard-pressure stuff, would it be safe to shoot it in a 1911. Never said I felt the need for more a more powerful round, or handgun. A couple of people jumped to that conclusion on their own; but re-reading my first post, I can see why.

I think any .45ACP HP would do fine for SD; and ball too, for that matter. I'm inclined to HP due to over-penetration concerns with ball; but maybe that is not so much of a concern with a relatively slow, wider 230gr bullet, compared to a faster 9mm round.

Fortunately, in my own mind I am the greatest shot ever, so missing is not possible..... My Rock (5" Pro Match Ultra) will do 2" groups or less (3 of 4 shots) at 25 yards with Rem HTP 185gr JHP, if I have my act together. Most of the time that would be my SD round, with Hornady Critical Defense used for winter (heavy coats, open HP clogging up). Never shot anyone and hope to keep it that way of course.
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TominMO View Post
Mainly I was asking as an academic question; for example if I accidentally bought a box of +P, not noticing that it wasn't the standard-pressure stuff, would it be safe to shoot it in a 1911. Never said I felt the need for more a more powerful round, or handgun. A couple of people jumped to that conclusion on their own; but re-reading my first post, I can see why
Yes, a Quality made 1911 of any frame material will handle any +P or +P+ will be safe to shoot occasionally.
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2020, 05:52 PM
Plaidad Plaidad is offline
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From the Armscor website FAQ's:

Can Armscor guns handle +p ammo?

Yes all of our guns are +p ammo ready, but please use only when necessary.
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  #23  
Old 04-03-2020, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaidad View Post
From the Armscor website FAQ's:

Can Armscor guns handle +p ammo?

Yes all of our guns are +p ammo ready, but please use only when necessary.
Well that was easy. Thanks!
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:04 PM
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"please use only when necessary"

What is that? The same pseudo-talk as an "essential business"?
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  #25  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:18 PM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is offline
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Just a note. Hornady shows 4.8 as MAX titegroup for a 230 grain bullet.

David

Sure you can use +P.
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