trigger pull weight varying pull to pull??? - 1911Forum
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  #1  
Old 03-18-2020, 08:41 AM
aprilian aprilian is offline
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trigger pull weight varying pull to pull???

I have 2 1911s that I have swapped the fire control parts in (hammer, sear, pins, disconnector, sear spring). Both are using exactly the same parts, the parts were fitted & tested individually, and both pistols have very similar trigger release feel now.

Testing both with a Lyman pull gauge the one is spot on at 3 3/4# and the other one is wandering between just under 3 1/2# and 4 1/2#. I can feel the difference in response with the gauge when it is heavier (I feel like I have to double check whether I forgot to hold down the GS).

I've disassembled the wayward one multiple times and triple checked everything. I can't find any reason that this is happening.

What suggestions do you have for me?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2020, 08:56 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Very often this is due to the tip of the disconnector bumping its slide cutout.
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2020, 09:11 AM
aprilian aprilian is offline
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Steve,

As in the disconnector is too long?

I did shorten the disconnector head in the other frame (Springfield Range Officer) as the disconnector paddle was dropping below the sear legs and the head was touching in the slide. That slide's disconnector cut out is shallower than the one (Les Baer Wadgun) I now have problems with.

Both disconnectors are the EGW ball disconnector and are turned down to fit the disconnector tunnel.

What is the test to confirm the tip is not hitting the slide cut out when in battery?

Last edited by aprilian; 03-18-2020 at 09:18 AM. Reason: clarification
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2020, 09:28 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilian View Post
As in the disconnector is too long?
Or the slide cut out needs to be deeper or extended slightly forward.

Quote:
What is the test to confirm the tip is not hitting the slide cut out when in battery?
There must be a better way but I suggest removing all the fire control guts from the frame, remove the slide assembly, dykem the slide cut out, install slide assembly on the frame with the slide stop holding it in place as per normal. Put the guts back in the frame and thumb cock the hammer and pull the trigger a few times. Pull the guts back out of the frame, remove the slide, and observe the dykem for evidence of contact with the disconnector.
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2020, 11:28 AM
log man log man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
Or the slide cut out needs to be deeper or extended slightly forward.

There must be a better way but I suggest removing all the fire control guts from the frame, remove the slide assembly, dykem the slide cut out, install slide assembly on the frame with the slide stop holding it in place as per normal. Put the guts back in the frame and thumb cock the hammer and pull the trigger a few times. Pull the guts back out of the frame, remove the slide, and observe the dykem for evidence of contact with the disconnector.
Okay, one must realize that there is something holding the disconnector down, if not the head touching the slide cut, then the sear pin in the square hole, is what keeps it from going higher. So eliminating contact at the top guarantees contact with the sear pin, there is going to be either the friction of the head arcing in the slide cut, which could be a cause of a feeling, or the surface of the disconnector square hole surface. I suggest the the bottom of the holes surface should be polished so as it slides against the sear pin it is smooth. By the way the vertical back side of this square hole is what limits the disconnectors forward motion of the lower end and sometimes needs cleaning up to allow the paddle to stay in contact with the back of the bow. A loose feeling trigger is suffering from this.

LOG
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2020, 12:22 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Contact with the square hole . . . Duh. Wait while I get done smacking my forehead. I've only polished that area a million times. No wonder I didn't remember it.
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2020, 04:26 PM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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With that big a disparity in pull force I would ensure the sear leaf is not rubbing against the frame cut out. I’ve had to file then polish a few on the left side of the sear leaf. Not saying it is but could be. Been there, done that.
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  #8  
Old 03-18-2020, 04:30 PM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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I’m not a fan of digital or spring gauges. NRA weights are the way to go and the only weight system authorized at big matches for precision pistol. There is a technique as well and you’ll need a stable surface. You’ll also want to measure in the exact place each time, which isn’t hard on a 1911, but can be a PITA for wheel guns, a little tape works wonders. IMO the NRA weights are much easier to do this as you lift the pistol with your elbows on the table/surface and wait for the break which is much more consistent.

Some platforms have some decent variance (1911 isn’t one of them) due to the design, as much as .25 - .50 lbs, so far the S&W Victory is the worst I’ve had to weigh.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...-prod9710.aspx

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Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 03-19-2020 at 02:02 AM.
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2020, 05:02 PM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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^ I hear ya. I don’t own a set of those yet. Spring gauge measurements can be affected by the angle and even the rate of pull.
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Last edited by Magnumite; 03-18-2020 at 05:07 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2020, 11:07 PM
Autonomous Autonomous is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnumite View Post
With that big a disparity in pull force I would ensure the sear leaf is not rubbing against the frame cut out. I’ve had to file then polish a few on the left side of the sear leaf. Not saying it is but could be. Been there, done that.
This issue vexed me till someone brought it up.
It is very easy to check and fix.

So, aprilian, any progress?
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  #11  
Old 03-22-2020, 12:13 AM
aprilian aprilian is offline
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Finally got back to it today and could get the left leaf to rub - even though I had already reduced it. The colt sear springs rock quite a bit and I could see how they might continue to wobble into rubbing position.

I had some of the new EGW sear springs which have a notch on that left side and don’t wobble as much. So I prepped 2 and adjusted the pull weight. No more rubbing and both pistols pull close to the same weight each time.

I noticed the EGW disconnector was leaving a mark in the slide cut out, so I shortened it and polished the cut out while I was there.

Thanks for the suggestions and the explanations!
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2020, 06:33 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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iIf the disconnector measured in spec per blueprints, I would have deepened the disco cut in the slide.
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  #13  
Old 03-22-2020, 07:34 AM
aprilian aprilian is offline
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It was the EGW long ball head disconnector and I only have access to hand tools.
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  #14  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:34 AM
Metal Smith Metal Smith is offline
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I double what Jayhawk said, I do not trust the digital scales for final pull weight, they are accurate but hard to get a good read. I like the old RCBS trigger pull scale too, the black tubular one. It's good to work with if you can calibrate it.
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  #15  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:43 AM
aprilian aprilian is offline
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For those of you who use the NRA weights, what is the smallest weight increment? How do you get the weight you want when, if it fails one weight and passes the next, you don't know how far off your target pull you are?
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  #16  
Old 03-22-2020, 11:21 AM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is offline
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Thanks, I learned some from this one.

David
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  #17  
Old 03-22-2020, 01:11 PM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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I use an old point ignition contact tension gauge and an RCBS gauge. Pulling one against the other I get the same measurements. But they are still spring gauges.
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