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  #26  
Old 03-05-2020, 02:37 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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Cowboy Bill, why don't you help us help you?

1) What kind of accuracy are you chasing?
2) What will the pistol be used for?
3) What's your budget?
4) What kind of materials, parts, finishes, etc. do you prefer, if any?
  #27  
Old 03-05-2020, 07:36 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apipeguy View Post
Accuracy X
Rock River Arms
Alchemy
Les Baer
He's looking for "high end". At least one of those is decidedly not.
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  #28  
Old 03-05-2020, 07:55 PM
Autonomous Autonomous is offline
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How high is high?
Semi or full custom?
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There is something to this 1911. I think it'll catch on.
  #29  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:03 PM
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apipeguy apipeguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Rohrer View Post
He's looking for "high end". At least one of those is decidedly not.
If youíre referring to the Baer, Iíll put my PII up against anything Iíve ever owned or shot for accuracy. Granted, Les is not that concerned about aesthetics. Over 20,000 rounds and still tight as a drum and 100% reliable. Opinions do differ.
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  #30  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:19 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by AZ Desertrat View Post
Don't overlook Les Baer with their accuracy guarantee.
I have one.
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  #31  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:24 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Bandit View Post
Why yes, yes I do. They are called Alchemy Custom Weaponry. High end accuracy at a reasonable price. https://alchemy1911.com/
AccuracyX beats theri accuracy guarantee.
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
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  #32  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:27 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
Whatís your budget? Thereís quite a spread
My budget is I want the most accurate 1911 I can buy but I don't want to pay for gingerbread, just accuracy and craftsmanship.
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
Then WHY does he represent ALL gun owners?
  #33  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:28 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight Medic View Post
+1. My Special Forces has been superb!! Definitely my go-to 1911 for making the plate rack my bitch!!
Is it guaranteed tighter than 1" at 25 yards?
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
Then WHY does he represent ALL gun owners?
  #34  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:30 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyP View Post
I will respectfully suggest - with NO personal first-hand experience - that there are NO high end inaccurate 1911s?

Heck my Army Pistol team arms room clunker Remington Rand was still more 'accurate' than I was. Going up the scale they only get better and better than most shooters.
Well I off hand one shot cut cards at 35' with my Kimber, I'm looking for a better garante than 1" at 25 yards.
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
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  #35  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:32 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Brown
Wilson
CZ TSO

In that order mechanically in my hands, I can freehand a brown to a little under an inch at 15 yards standing. Wilson's tends to be just behind that, TSO/CMs are about the same but at 50 yards have more deviation vs the brown in particular.

If you want the ultimate you need a true bullseye gun, we have a extremely skilled shooter here by the name of Jaynavyhawk who is the best source of info on this type of gun.
I do 5 shot 3/4" holes at 50' with my Kimbers, I want better.
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
Then WHY does he represent ALL gun owners?
  #36  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:33 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by Piexcel View Post
Learn from me and stay away from Les Baer.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=997640
My Les Baer is a tack driver.
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
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  #37  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:36 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by GunBugBit View Post
It's a rare person indeed who shoots more accurately than the gun does.

Still, I understand the desire to own a very accurate gun. Nothing wrong with it.
Truth be told, you can't shoot more accurate then the gun you're shooting but I have the skill to keep up with a top quality gun.
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
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  #38  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:37 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by JNW View Post
All good suggestions above. If you are looking for an accurate .45 and are willing to think outside the 1911 box, then a CZ 97 with a bushing and a SAO trigger job by Cajun or CZC will run with the big dogs, all for under $2,000.
Otherwise have a pistol built by a true bullseye gunsmith. Bring money and patience. I love Greg Derrís guns!
Jeff
Naaaa 1911.
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
Then WHY does he represent ALL gun owners?
  #39  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:40 PM
Cowboy Bill Cowboy Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
Cowboy Bill, why don't you help us help you?

1) What kind of accuracy are you chasing?
2) What will the pistol be used for?
3) What's your budget?
4) What kind of materials, parts, finishes, etc. do you prefer, if any?
I'm looking to see if I can beat 1" at 25 yards.
Target shooting, you wouldn't need such a gun for anything else.
Whatever it costs.
Stainless is fine, not looking for gingerbread, I want function.
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If the killer in Orlando doesn't represent ALL Muslims?
Then WHY does he represent ALL gun owners?
  #40  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:51 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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I'd look for one worked over by the late F. Bob Chow
  #41  
Old 03-05-2020, 09:02 PM
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Flight Medic Flight Medic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bill View Post
Is it guaranteed tighter than 1" at 25 yards?
Ed Browns are guaranteed to 1.5" at 50 yards. This is the benchmark for bullseye shooting. Repeated tests have shown this is the best possible accuracy capability of the highest quality 45 ACP bullets (Nosler and Zero) in ANY 5" 1911 pistol...no matter WHO built/tuned it!!

I don't bullseye shoot, but I can tell you the EB will be FAR more accurate than I will ever be. I'm guessing the same could be said for you.
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Last edited by Flight Medic; 03-06-2020 at 06:43 AM.
  #42  
Old 03-05-2020, 09:06 PM
45acpskng 45acpskng is offline
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I can shoot my TRP Operator with ANY other 1911 made, I don't care how much they overpaid for it! If you're looking for accuracy, save some money and get a TRP!
  #43  
Old 03-05-2020, 09:08 PM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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A couple great articles worth reading

https://www.bullseyepistol.com/cstomgun.htm

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/...ster-gunsmith/

http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2015/0...istol.html?m=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bill View Post
I'm looking to see if I can beat 1" at 25 yards.
Target shooting, you wouldn't need such a gun for anything else.
Whatever it costs. Stainless is fine, not looking for gingerbread, I want function.
Other than Accuracy-X you will lose performance by going with stainless. If you are looking for the best accuracy possible, I would recommend traditional carbon steel.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t3166-...ompetition-gun

FWIW, 1” 25 yard 10 shot groups aren't hard to cringe out wth a 1911. A box stock Range Officer with a new slide stop and bushing will probably do 1” at 25 yards with the right ammo from a rest.
A couple 10 shot 50 yard test targets from Ransom Rests below.

Target 1: Range Officer (OEM slide stop which was .197 and the frame holes are .201)



Target 2: Range Officer (New Slide Stope & Bushing)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bill View Post
My Les Baer is a tack driver.
Les Baer. They're a fine pistol but I would look at other brands if you are looking to max out the accuracy potential. Thread below for reference. Several very good Gunsmiths explain why.
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1010004

Accuracy-X Pro Plus Series Multi-Sight option and IMO one of the better semi-custom precision pistol shops. A full custom by a Bullseye Gunsmith is another option and ideal, if you have the funds/time. Either will be spectacular.
https://accuracyx.com/proplus-series/

Kimber Target Match. I think 1,000 were made in 2006. I’m not a Kimber fan, but IMO these were a shockingly good 1911.

Rock River Arms
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index....category_ID=24

Springfield Custom: Most are very good, but some need new barrels, albeit rarely, and the triggers are “okay” IMO. I would go with RRA over SACS IMO.

Lots of good 1911 focused Gunsmiths who support precision pistol aka Bullseye shooters, some may or may not be taking work, and expect a 2-3+ year wait

Jon Shue
https://www.facebook.com/Blackmass-C...=page_internal

KC Crawford
https://kcskustomcreations.com

Ed Masaki
1268 Kaluawaa St
Honolulu, HI. 96816
808-737-1212

Roddy Toyota
[email protected]

Greg Derr
https://www.derrprecision.com

Jon Eulette

David Sams
http://www.samscustomgunworksusa.com

Joe Chambers
https://chamberscustom.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by 45acpskng View Post
I can shoot my TRP Operator with ANY other 1911 made, I don't care how much they overpaid for it! If you're looking for accuracy, save some money and get a TRP!
You might be able to shoot with any other 1911, but it won’t be competitive in Bullseye or approach the accuracy of a properly built target pistol. They’re a great pistol, believe me, I have several Springfield’s too, but the TRP isn’t any more accurate than other stock Springfield 1911s except the bushing is fit a “little” better and they have a “semi-decent” trigger job. The barrels are still basically drop in and will need refit to shoot better. Bushing and slide stops usually need replaced as well. They’re a nice 1911 but not anywhere at the level of full custom or high end semi-custom for target use. The fire control group will get tossed for serious bullseye work to get the right feel and won’t wear as fast.

A couple of test targets from Bullseye Gunsmiths, all at 50 yards.


David “Dave” Sams is Sams Custom Gunworks based on full custom builds.





Roddy Toyota Test Target



Jerry Keefer Test Target



Jerry Keefer Test Target 25 Shots at 50 yards



KC Crawford

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Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 03-06-2020 at 05:04 PM.
  #44  
Old 03-05-2020, 09:14 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bill View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
What’s your budget? There’s quite a spread
My budget is I want the most accurate 1911 I can buy but I don't want to pay for gingerbread, just accuracy and craftsmanship.
That’s kind of a fishy ‘non answer’. You can, as has been pointed out, get a parts bin surplus gun to shoot well

Then there are the semi custom production guns , generally outstanding from the top 3-4.....and go to full custom.

A lot depends on your budget in dollars, budgeted ‘wait time’, and shooting ability, or not.

Do you want to put it in a Ransom rest, sort through ammo for the tiniest 50 yd group possible? Want a bullseye gun, PPC gun, IDPA? They’re all a little different, and you’re not saying much of what you want.

Last edited by shooter59; 03-05-2020 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Spelling
  #45  
Old 03-05-2020, 10:06 PM
OZ 1911 OZ 1911 is offline
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High end - Accurate = any Cabot
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  #46  
Old 03-05-2020, 10:15 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy Bill View Post
I'm looking to see if I can beat 1" at 25 yards.
Target shooting, you wouldn't need such a gun for anything else.
Whatever it costs.
Stainless is fine, not looking for gingerbread, I want function.
Call Rob at Alchemy. Tell him what you want. He can build it for you.
  #47  
Old 03-05-2020, 10:23 PM
Broom Rider Broom Rider is offline
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There is a limit somewhere as to just how accurate gun can be.
My choice for most accurate/reliable would be anything that comes out of Chambers Custom. My next choice would be Alchemy Custom. My Alchemy shoots just a little better than my LB guns do and I have used them as the yardstick to measure accuracy. My Chambers outshoots all of my guns. Best wishes.
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  #48  
Old 03-05-2020, 10:28 PM
f1racefan f1racefan is offline
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I don't own one of these high-end, super custom 1911's. I've only got a couple of Dan Wessons that I love and are plenty accurate for me.

I've seen the Accuracy X Youtube videos. Does any other 1911 builder out there put their money where their mouth is and do the same type of accuracy videos that Accuracy X does? If not, why not just contact them, tell them what you want, and let them build it, test it, and if it passes, ship it to you?

And if you really want that level of accuracy, why not just get a revolver? The sights are part of the barrel. No need to worry about part coming back together perfectly at battery so the sights are aiming at the same place relative to the barrel. It ALWAYS happens with a revolver.
  #49  
Old 03-06-2020, 05:38 AM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Originally Posted by f1racefan View Post
I've seen the Accuracy X Youtube videos. Does any other 1911 builder out there put their money where their mouth is and do the same type of accuracy videos that Accuracy X does? If not, why not just contact them, tell them what you want, and let them build it, test it, and if it passes, ship it to you?
Just because a builder doesn't do videos doesn't mean their product isn’t viable. The best shooting team for precision pistol sports the USAMU, doesn't use factory/semi-custom 1911s nor do they do videos, they do however use a 10 shot group fired 5 times with all rounds falling inside the X-Ring. Those Gunsmiths who move on to the civilian world like Dave Sams others don't need videos. Bullseye shooters know their background and what they can do and these guys already have 2+ year wait lists. For the masses advertisement is important, it's how Les Baer, Wilson, Ed Brown, etc. move along. Nothing against Accuracy-X. I know Steve, he makes a great product and is an amazing competitor and I recommend his pistols highly. His is advancing his business and that’s great and I’m happy for him because he’s a great American.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1racefan View Post
And if you really want that level of accuracy, why not just get a revolver? The sights are part of the barrel. No need to worry about part coming back together perfectly at battery so the sights are aiming at the same place relative to the barrel. It ALWAYS happens with a revolver.
Revolvers typically do not produce the same accuracy as the match semi-automatic match pistols. Each cylinder usually has enough variance that affects the group, unless it was line-bored. I believe Freedom Arms does that, but not sure who else. That said, I have a test target from Jerry that is unreal from a S&W I'll post up later.



Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ 1911 View Post
High end - Accurate = any Cabot
I've seen some early Cabot 1911s in a Ransom and HEG rest that wouldn’t hold the x-ring and barely the 10 ring. For the price you can get a full custom build with cash leftover to buy a Dillon 1050 and the components to reload the ammo for your new 1911 and probably still have enough for a Ransom Rest. The current Cabot stuff is great, but not blown away with the triggers. IMO if you are in Cabot territory go full custom with a Master Pistolsmith and save 2-3k in the process.

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Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 03-06-2020 at 05:01 PM.
  #50  
Old 03-06-2020, 05:47 AM
Kevin Rohrer's Avatar
Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apipeguy View Post
If you’re referring to the Baer, I’ll put my PII up against anything I’ve ever owned or shot for accuracy. Granted, Les is not that concerned about aesthetics. Over 20,000 rounds and still tight as a drum and 100% reliable. Opinions do differ.
So do I, and I have a second one on-order.

Think Phillipine-made, cast and MIM parts, low price (all of which are the antithesis of high-end).
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The 9mm is a SD cartridge fit only for women and Europeans--Me

Last edited by Kevin Rohrer; 03-06-2020 at 05:50 AM.
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