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  #1  
Old 02-20-2020, 01:59 PM
D1911 D1911 is offline
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Smolt

Not really a range report but I did take out my recently built Smolt today and put some rounds through it. This thing shoots great. This was only at 7 yards but not bad for an old guy. Ammo was 14 rounds of LAX .38 Special 158 gr FMJ. The one off to the left was a called flyer (oops!). Forgot to take the Magnum ammo, next time...

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  #2  
Old 02-20-2020, 06:06 PM
aguns aguns is online now
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Nice I always wanted . To do that from the day I seen one in earlly 90s in American handguner
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2020, 06:43 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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I love the looks of those things. Always had a hankering for one. I've come across a Couger before, but the Smolts look better to my eyes.

Congrats!!!
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  #4  
Old 02-20-2020, 07:25 PM
jc2721 jc2721 is offline
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Sweet! the target hammer and standard trigger are a nice touch as well as the matching of the rib to the sight tang. Got a pic of the joint from the top?
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2020, 07:27 PM
jc2721 jc2721 is offline
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Forgot to ask, who did the work? I've got a like new 6" blue barrel, maybe it's time to start looking for a 586...
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2020, 09:34 PM
kels kels is offline
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Wow, haven’t heard the term SMOLT in ages.

Very nice looking gun
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2020, 11:03 PM
jc2721 jc2721 is offline
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I kinda like Smython better.
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2020, 06:31 PM
D1911 D1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc2721 View Post
Sweet! the target hammer and standard trigger are a nice touch as well as the matching of the rib to the sight tang. Got a pic of the joint from the top?
Here are a couple of pics. The first is the Model 66. The Python barrel rib is a bit wider than the rear sight so it stands a bit proud to either side. A bit of beveling helps with the sharp edges of the back of the rib. The second pic is on a blued Model 15 that was originally a 2" gun. The junction is much smoother because the 2" and 2 1/2" guns lack the step on the top strap toward the barrel. It's best to use the 2"/2 1/2" rear sight on the conversion as it's leg extends all the way to the end of the frame. Unfortunately, those sights are getting much harder to find. The last pic is the transition on a Couger (Security Six conversion). The barrel rib mates almost perfectly with the top strap of the frame.

Craig Maraviov in Woodland, CA did the stainless Smolt and Couger conversions for me.





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  #9  
Old 02-24-2020, 06:38 PM
D1911 D1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
I love the looks of those things. Always had a hankering for one. I've come across a Couger before, but the Smolts look better to my eyes.

Congrats!!!
I agree. The Smolts look a bit more "elegant", while the Couger looks like more of a workhorse.

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  #10  
Old 02-24-2020, 06:41 PM
D1911 D1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by aguns View Post
Nice I always wanted . To do that from the day I seen one in earlly 90s in American handguner
Here's an early Guns magazine with an article on the Bill Davis Couger...

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  #11  
Old 02-24-2020, 06:48 PM
D1911 D1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by jc2721 View Post
Forgot to ask, who did the work? I've got a like new 6" blue barrel, maybe it's time to start looking for a 586...
Here's one I had done a few years back on a 686-4. Since it was a -4, it had the newer rear sight with the rounded end. To get the smooth transition to the barrel rib, I had Craig mill out the sight slot to the end of the frame and weld on a piece of sight material to the end of the sight leg. It met up with the barrel rib nicely and you really had to look at it to see that anything was done to the sight.

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  #12  
Old 02-24-2020, 07:15 PM
aguns aguns is online now
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Originally Posted by D1911 View Post
Here's one I had done a few years back on a 686-4. Since it was a -4, it had the newer rear sight with the rounded end. To get the smooth transition to the barrel rib, I had Craig mill out the sight slot to the end of the frame and weld on a piece of sight material to the end of the sight leg. It met up with the barrel rib nicely and you really had to look at it to see that anything was done to the sight.

Ah the memories

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  #13  
Old 02-24-2020, 07:57 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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Nice shooting and good looking SMOLT there D1911. Nice examples from the others as well.

I think I'd rather have a Smython or Smolt than an actual Python. I'm a bit partial to S&W actions.
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2020, 08:07 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Very nice guns and great group, however I'm extremely confused as to what is going on with the colt barrel on a smith frame? Why?
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2020, 10:38 PM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Very nice guns and great group, however I'm extremely confused as to what is going on with the colt barrel on a smith frame? Why?
Smith & Wesson gives a better DA trigger than Colt (without modification) and generally greater durability/reliability and easier for the average gunsmith to tune to match/competition standards. Very few folks can truly overhaul a Colt DA, the results are spectacular, but its prohibitively expensive. The Colt barrel is generally superior to the S&W. Combine the two factors for an above average pistol in both departments. This faded in popularity as aftermarket barrels became available that were superior to S&W, Colt or Ruger and didn't require the radical work to install.

https://gundigest.com/handguns/the-c...t-revolver/amp

Colt Officer Match Ransom Rest 50 yard target below. The biggest advantage with Colt according to a couple of Master Pistolsmiths is the twist rate. The target is good, but not even close to the custom barrel by Jerry.

* S&W 586/686/K-38: 1:18.75
* Ruger GP-100/SP101: 1:18.75
* Colt Officer Model Match: 1:16
* Colt Python: 1:14

For NRA Precision Pistol aka "Bullseye" Distinguished Revolver, they have to be stock or returned to factory condition. I've tested several K-38s and a couple Colt OMMs and Pythons at 50 yards with 10 shots from a Ransom Rest. The Colt barrels tend to do better on average with 158 gr LRN at target velocities.



Jerry Keefer, who was a PPC competitor, NRA distinguished, President's 100 recipient, Guild Master Gunsmith and PPC and Bullseye focused builder.

http://le.nra.org/documents/pdf/law/winter2001.pdf

"A huge number of PPC guns that shot incredible scores were built on K frame Model 10s & 64s. The only advantage the Colt has over the S&W is the 14 twist rate. The internal mechanism is a nightmare compared to the S&W. "Back in the day when PPC was big. A good .38 open class would shoot under an inch at at 50. Someone mentioned twist rates. Big factor. S&W is hooked on 18-3/4 twist. Not great for small groups @ 50. The 52 also shared the slow 18 twist. Python had a 14 twist and grouped much better."



David "Dave" Sams. Former head gunsmith for the AMU, the most successful shooting team in the USA, large source of our shooting Olympians, and one of the most respected Bullseye pistolsmiths in the country and the gentlemen who designed the accurized M9 for CMP EIC and built pistols for Philip “Phil” Hemphill, the only person to win a PPC championship (10 times) and NRA precision pistol title.

”The most common barrel bore twist rates are 1:10, 1:12, 1:14 and 1:16 (one complete rifling twist in 10, 12, 14 or 16 inches of barrel length). I prefer 1:14 for the more common 148 grain lead wadcutter bullet.”
Talking to Dave in his shop, the same holds true for the 158 gr LSWC/LRN in 38 special "usually".

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2015/...ng-a-revolver/
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Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 02-25-2020 at 08:17 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2020, 11:57 PM
9mm Colt 9mm Colt is offline
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Excellent jaynavy!

Nice revolvers D1911!
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  #17  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:29 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Interesting. I didn't think that would be something people could get away with and still have the gun be considered stock. Thanks for explaining the reason and history behind it
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:05 PM
D1911 D1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayhawkNavy02 View Post
Smith & Wesson gives a better DA trigger than Colt (without modification) and generally greater durability/reliability and easier for the average gunsmith to tune to match/competition standards. Very few folks can truly overhaul a Colt DA, the results are spectacular, but its prohibitively expensive. The Colt barrel is generally superior to the S&W. Combine the two factors for an above average pistol in both departments. This faded in popularity as aftermarket barrels became available that were superior to S&W, Colt or Ruger and didn't require the radical work to install.

https://gundigest.com/handguns/the-c...t-revolver/amp

Colt Officer Match Ransom Rest 50 yard target below. The biggest advantage with Colt according to a couple of Master Pistolsmiths is the twist rate. The target is good, but not even close to the custom barrel by Jerry.

* S&W 586/686/K-38: 1:18.75
* Ruger GP-100/SP101: 1:18.75
* Colt Officer Model Match: 1:16
* Colt Python: 1:14

For NRA Precision Pistol aka "Bullseye" Distinguished Revolver, they have to be stock or returned to factory condition. I've tested several K-38s and a couple Colt OMMs and Pythons at 50 yards with 10 shots from a Ransom Rest. The Colt barrels tend to do better on average with 158 gr LRN at target velocities.



Jerry Keefer, who was a PPC competitor, NRA distinguished, President's 100 recipient, Guild Master Gunsmith and PPC and Bullseye focused builder.

http://le.nra.org/documents/pdf/law/winter2001.pdf

"A huge number of PPC guns that shot incredible scores were built on K frame Model 10s & 64s. The only advantage the Colt has over the S&W is the 14 twist rate. The internal mechanism is a nightmare compared to the S&W. "Back in the day when PPC was big. A good .38 open class would shoot under an inch at at 50. Someone mentioned twist rates. Big factor. S&W is hooked on 18-3/4 twist. Not great for small groups @ 50. The 52 also shared the slow 18 twist. Python had a 14 twist and grouped much better."



David "Dave" Sams. Former head gunsmith for the AMU, the most successful shooting team in the USA, large source of our shooting Olympians, and one of the most respected Bullseye pistolsmiths in the country and the gentlemen who designed the accurized M9 for CMP EIC and built pistols for Philip “Phil” Hemphill, the only person to win a PPC championship (10 times) and NRA precision pistol title.

”The most common barrel bore twist rates are 1:10, 1:12, 1:14 and 1:16 (one complete rifling twist in 10, 12, 14 or 16 inches of barrel length). I prefer 1:14 for the more common 148 grain lead wadcutter bullet.”
Talking to Dave in his shop, the same holds true for the 158 gr LSWC/LRN in 38 special "usually".

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2015/...ng-a-revolver/
Thanks!!
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  #19  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:18 PM
toocool45 toocool45 is online now
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Some one explain what a cougar is? Ive heard of a smolt before.
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  #20  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:58 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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Originally Posted by toocool45 View Post
Some one explain what a cougar is? Ive heard of a smolt before.
This. Colt barrel, Ruger frame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D1911 View Post
Here's an early Guns magazine with an article on the Bill Davis Couger...

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  #21  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:49 PM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Interesting. I didn't think that would be something people could get away with and still have the gun be considered stock. Thanks for explaining the reason and history behind it
You are correct, they are not. Once you modify the OEM with a new barrel, it is no longer allowed in Distinguished Revolver matches. They can be used in NRA Rimfire, Centerfire or 45 along with Harry Reeves, but you cannot go distinguished.

Most folks just cherry pick K-38/M-14 S&W revolvers until you find a good one that will hold the 10/X-ring.

3.1.4 Distinguished Revolver - The revolver must be capable of chambering and firing a 158-grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter .38 Special cartridge. It must be a factory manufactured revolver with no external modifications except for stocks which may be modified or changed because of the size of the competitor’ hand or to facilitate loading. Except for stocks and the honing of the sear or sear notch to make a more crisp trigger, and maintain a 2 1/2 lb. minimum trigger pull, no external or internal modification may be made to the revolver as manufactured and sold by the factory of origin. No parts may be removed from the revolver, either externally or internally, nor may any part be added, with the exception of milling the cylinder to accommodate moon clips. Specifically prohibited is any system of recoil control based upon compensators, barrel venting, barrel porting or weighted grips. Exposed holes that have been drilled and tapped for mounting of a scope are not considered to be an external modification.
(a) Trigger - Must have single and double action capability and must be capable of lifting 2 1/2 lbs when the revolver is cocked for single action firing. Triggers will be weighed. Any trigger, sold by the manufacturer of the revolver, without modification, may be used.
(b) Sights - Fixed or adjustable rear sights may be used. An adjustable front sight is not allowed.
(c) Barrel - Length not to exceed six and one-half inches (6 1/2").
(d) Stocks - Except as set forth above, the right and left stocks must be mirror images of each other.
(e) Ammunition - Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter bullet only.
(f) The following are not allowed. Trigger Shoes, compensators of any type or design; any external trigger stop device; any internal trigger stop not originally installed by the factory as original equipment in stock revolvers of the same make and model; tape on the stocks or stocks flared at the base.
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2020, 01:40 AM
Torf Torf is offline
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A side note regarding use of different barrels in revolvers:

In the old metallic silhouett days we "cheated" in the revolver class by using 10" of the muzzle end of Anschutz target rifles in Dan Wesson .22lr revolvers. The Annie barrels are lapped tighter towards the muzzle, like a shotgun choke, and shoot like.. well like Anschutz target rifles. Actually, no need for expensive Freedom Arms or Manurhin revolvers shooting steel. ( There are plenty of very cheap old Annies in Europe as a source for top quality barrels )

Last edited by Torf; 03-08-2020 at 01:48 AM.
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2020, 07:50 AM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Originally Posted by Torf View Post
A side note regarding use of different barrels in revolvers:

In the old metallic silhouett days we "cheated" in the revolver class by using 10" of the muzzle end of Anschutz target rifles in Dan Wesson .22lr revolvers. The Annie barrels are lapped tighter towards the muzzle, like a shotgun choke, and shoot like.. well like Anschutz target rifles. Actually, no need for expensive Freedom Arms or Manurhin revolvers shooting steel. ( There are plenty of very cheap old Annies in Europe as a source for top quality barrels )
This may be the most interesting thing I’ve read on the forum. Thanks for posting!
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  #24  
Old 03-10-2020, 10:01 PM
mike454 mike454 is offline
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Nothing to add other than a picture of a recent cougar. Colt Anaconda barrel on a Ruger Redhawk. No real accuracy gains but looks nice to my eyes.

Last edited by mike454; 03-10-2020 at 11:19 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-12-2020, 05:03 PM
Torf Torf is offline
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Originally Posted by JayhawkNavy02 View Post
This may be the most interesting thing I’ve read on the forum. Thanks for posting!

This (old) reply on beforum from Brian Enos to Julie Goloski regarding use of S&W M41 to Olympic pistol shooting is interesting:

"Julie,

I don't know if this will be of any help... When I was shooting for S&W I had Derrick Martin sleeve a Model 41's barrel with a used piece of an Anschutz rifle barrel - man, did that turn that pistol into a shooter. (And, it looked factory on the outside.) It's unbelievable. Doug Koenig offered to buy if from me for any amount of money every time he saw it. But I'll never sell it.

be"
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