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  #1  
Old 12-12-2019, 08:20 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Commander & flat wire recoil springs

I'm about to order a few small parts from Wilson and decided that I need to replace my springs. The pistol was purchased used and I don't really know how many rounds it's seen nor if the the springs have ever been replaced.

The problem is that it's a Commander with a barrel bushing. I've been perusing Wilsons' site for an hour and can't easily find Commander springs.

My though was to upgrade to a flat-wire recoil spring but I don't know much about them. Kinda looks like they require an FLGR and are only made for full-size, compact/professional, and Sentinel.

What am I missing here? Can I get a flat-wire recoil spring that will simply replace my factory recoil spring? Or do I need different parts? And...how on earth do I identify Commander-length springs on Wilsons' sight?

I'd appreciate the advice.
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2019, 08:24 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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I don't know but Bill Wilson of Wilson combat swears by them on his youtube chabnnel
"Gun Guys" on youtube
Says the Wire springs go 10,000 rounds
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2019, 08:26 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
I don't know but Bill Wilson of Wilson combat swears by them on his youtube chabnnel
"Gun Guys" on youtube
Says the Wire springs go 10,000 rounds
Wilsons' sight says 40K rounds. That is a lot!

I think this is what I need:

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wi...oductinfo/784/

But, all the pistols listed at the bottom are 4-inch bulls (I think). Not a single 4.25 listed.

Or, do I forget about this crap and order a regular-old recoil spring?
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2019, 08:28 PM
Ytown1911 Ytown1911 is offline
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I am unsure what caliber you have since you did not specify. Here is a link to REPLACEMENT springs for the commanders based on caliber:

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Command...partments/604/

As far as the FLGR, I am unsure that they make one for your commander.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2019, 08:47 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ytown1911 View Post
I am unsure what caliber you have since you did not specify. Here is a link to REPLACEMENT springs for the commanders based on caliber:

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Command...partments/604/

As far as the FLGR, I am unsure that they make one for your commander.
Oh..duh! It's a 9mm and I should have mentioned that.

I've been really digging through that site and the only flatwire kits shown with plugs for a bushing are full-size. The rest are reverse plugs (I think that's what they are called) for bull-barrel guns.

It looks there is no flat-wire love for the Commander. Crap.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2019, 10:26 PM
Ytown1911 Ytown1911 is offline
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Nighthawk sells them. Virtually the same thing
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2019, 10:29 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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You could get the short small diameter guide.
https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wi...ctinfo/576SFW/

Surely somebody can recommend which spring.
Mine is a Glock spring cut to fit.
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2019, 10:44 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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I think I found the spring per a post from a Wilson rep on some other forum:

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wi...ctinfo/651C13/

But I think there is more to it. It seems that the springs require a .250 diameter guide rod. What I don't know is if you can use a standard-length recoil spring guide and the stock Commander plug or if it needs to be full-length, as in an FLGR with a .250 diameter. The FLGRs on Wilsons' site do not specify the diameter.

To make it more complicated, my CCO has a Wilson Compact frame and it looks like the recoil spring guide has a little extra milling on the back of it (for Compact frames?).

Really confusing crap. I emailed Wilson tonight to see if they can tell me what will work and what won't. This is a carry pistol, so I want to make sure that reliability is not compromised. Might be best to keep using standard springs.

I'll post what Wilson says for posterity.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2019, 10:46 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
You could get the short small diameter guide.
https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wi...ctinfo/576SFW/

Surely somebody can recommend which spring.
Mine is a Glock spring cut to fit.
That might be exactly what I've been digging for. Thank you Mr. Watson!
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:15 AM
Pit Pit is offline
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I went with the flat wire recoil spring guide for my 45 and 9mm Commanders. They work. Here's an earlier thread.
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=993646

However, I switch to the full length guide rod. I got them from Nighthawk while on sale. Came with two springs so I have a supply on hand now.

With the short guide the flat wire springs make a gritty sound like they are rubbing on something such as the dust cover. I found no evidence of this in a 1000 rounds of so of use.

I have about 650 rounds thru each Commander with the FLGR. This seemed to eliminate most of the noise. I think the noise is due to the external surface of the springs being "square" vs round. I do find I get more life out of the flat wire springs. About 3 times the life of the Chrome Silicon ones.

If you want to try one of the Wilson short guide rods let me know. I'll send you one to test.

JW
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  #11  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:35 AM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit View Post
I went with the flat wire recoil spring guide for my 45 and 9mm Commanders. They work. Here's an earlier thread.
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=993646

However, I switch to the full length guide rod. I got them from Nighthawk while on sale. Came with two springs so I have a supply on hand now.

With the short guide the flat wire springs make a gritty sound like they are rubbing on something such as the dust cover. I found no evidence of this in a 1000 rounds of so of use.

I have about 650 rounds thru each Commander with the FLGR. This seemed to eliminate most of the noise. I think the noise is due to the external surface of the springs being "square" vs round. I do find I get more life out of the flat wire springs. About 3 times the life of the Chrome Silicon ones.

If you want to try one of the Wilson short guide rods let me know. I'll send you one to test.

JW
Good infos. Thank you!

I heard back from Wilson. Officially, they do not sell any combination of parts for a Commander/flat-wire configuration and they do not recommend using a flat-wire in a Commander. No explanation as to why...but I suspect it's because they don't sell one.

Is the rear of your FLGR milled out for a compact frame by any chance? Looks like this:


Not sure what that milling is for but I suspect it's necessary on my CCO.

Also, did the FLGR & flat-wire combo improve the way the slide feels, recoil, or add weight to the barrel?
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  #12  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:43 AM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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The milled slot you are asking about is for the barrel link to sit in. On the shorter framed guns, the extra space is need.
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  #13  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:56 AM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
The milled slot you are asking about is for the barrel link to sit in. On the shorter framed guns, the extra space is need.
Good to know. I figured it must be there for a reason.

I read through the thread that Pit linked twice. Good infos. I'll contact NHC to see if their FLGR/flat-wire setup has the link cutout. If so I'll give it a try.

I am concerned about changing the spring setup on a carry gun though. It's run 100% over the first 1500 rounds and I'm not sure if monkeying around with it is a good idea.

What is to be gained from an FLGR/flat-wire setup other than extended service life?
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  #14  
Old 12-14-2019, 12:04 PM
Pit Pit is offline
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Nighthawk cuts the back at a bevel to achieve the same result.

Wilson's told me the spring for the Compact will work for the Commander. The Flat Wire was recommended for the 45. 9mm if I want to but not necessary.
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  #15  
Old 12-14-2019, 12:16 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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My original CQB came with a GI guide rod with the smaller diameter for the flatwire recoil spring and has worked very well. I don't remember if it has the cutout for the barrel link - I can look for you later today.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:58 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jacobconroy75 View Post
Good to know. I figured it must be there for a reason.

I read through the thread that Pit linked twice. Good infos. I'll contact NHC to see if their FLGR/flat-wire setup has the link cutout. If so I'll give it a try.

I am concerned about changing the spring setup on a carry gun though. It's run 100% over the first 1500 rounds and I'm not sure if monkeying around with it is a good idea.

What is to be gained from an FLGR/flat-wire setup other than extended service life?
Better recoil impulse that is easier to predict and recover, about 5% better times and on some guns REALLY improves the response and feel. My full-size 9mm went from being worse than a CZ shadow to absolutely owning it with just a spring change.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:15 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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I looked on my full size CQB (.45 by the way) and the back of the guide rod does not have the relief cut that the shorter-slide/frame guns have. For the Commander, it is closer in size to a Pro than it is a full size, so if I wanted to change the one in my Commander (9mm Hackathorn special) I would get the pro size guide rod (all of these size are FLGR) and reverse plug to accommodate; not sure how it would work on a 4.25 inch slide though.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:18 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Better recoil impulse that is easier to predict and recover, about 5% better times and on some guns REALLY improves the response and feel. My full-size 9mm went from being worse than a CZ shadow to absolutely owning it with just a spring change.
Interesting. The pistol in question is a True CCO (Commander with aluminum officer frame) and though it's a 9mm....it could be less snappy. Not uncomfortable by any means, but recovery time is much longer than my all-steel Gov't 9mm.

Do you think an FLGS & flat-wire might provide some benefit in such a light pistol?
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:23 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
I looked on my full size CQB (.45 by the way) and the back of the guide rod does not have the relief cut that the shorter-slide/frame guns have. For the Commander, it is closer in size to a Pro than it is a full size, so if I wanted to change the one in my Commander (9mm Hackathorn special) I would get the pro size guide rod (all of these size are FLGR) and reverse plug to accommodate; not sure how it would work on a 4.25 inch slide though.
My full-size steel CQB 9 doesn't have the relief cut either. Hadn't thought to check it before now.

I'm going to have to do some Googling on reverse plugs because I'm not sure what they are. I suspect my 4-inch Kimber .45 has one as it came with an FLGR and has a bull barrel. I'll go take it down to see.

I really appreciate all the input from All in this thread!
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:27 PM
Ytown1911 Ytown1911 is offline
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FYI, none of the 5” FLGRs have the relief cuts. Nor have they ever. I asked Wilson this same question before. I wish they did have it, though.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:28 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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The Commanders do not have a bull barrel, they have a bushing barrel. So the plug would be one of the bushing plugs with the hole for a FLGR - kind of like the ones on the Kimbers that have FLGR's.
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacobconroy75 View Post
My full-size steel CQB 9 doesn't have the relief cut either. Hadn't thought to check it before now.

I'm going to have to do some Googling on reverse plugs because I'm not sure what they are. I suspect my 4-inch Kimber .45 has one as it came with an FLGR and has a bull barrel. I'll go take it down to see.

I really appreciate all the input from All in this thread!
I think your Kimber Pro 4" will have the same set-up as mine do, an FLGR with the reverse plug. The plug has a "step" on it to catch the ledge cut into the slide where the plug sits, and this is what retains the plug since there is no bushing to hold it in.
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:32 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
I think your Kimber Pro 4" will have the same set-up as mine do, an FLGR with the reverse plug. The plug has a "step" on it to catch the ledge cut into the slide where the plug sits, and this is what retains the plug since there is no bushing to hold it in.
Ah, yup. That's it. So, reverse plug for bulls with FLGR and a standard plug (with a hole in it) for FLGRs and bushing barrels. Learning lots today!
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:41 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jacobconroy75 View Post
Interesting. The pistol in question is a True CCO (Commander with aluminum officer frame) and though it's a 9mm....it could be less snappy. Not uncomfortable by any means, but recovery time is much longer than my all-steel Gov't 9mm.

Do you think an FLGS & flat-wire might provide some benefit in such a light pistol?
Yes, the flat-wire "stacks" less and doesn't dive when going back into battery and I have found them to speed up recovery.
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:23 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Originally Posted by Jacobconroy75 View Post
Ah, yup. That's it. So, reverse plug for bulls with FLGR and a standard plug (with a hole in it) for FLGRs and bushing barrels. Learning lots today!
That's what we do here - share knowledge. Always glad when I can contribute knowledge to others!
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