Wilson gold dot vs gold bead? - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:48 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
Wilson gold dot vs gold bead?

Hey All,
I need some opinions on this. I recently ordered a new gold bead front site from Wilson. I assumed it would match another Wilson gold dot that I have.

This is what I have and wanted to duplicate:


It is a nice domed and polished gold dot (or what I call a gold dot). Very easy for me to pick up in almost any light.

The picture on Wilsons' site looks like the gold dot above. Today I received this:


Um...I don't want that. It looks cheap, isn't polished, and doesn't reflect any light unless it's between my eyes and the front sight. I placed the new sight on top of the "old" sight and walked around my living room. There is no comparison. The domed sight works. The flat sight does not work.

I'm going to return this, but I don't want to get stuck with the shipping charges. It isn't what was pictured on Wilsons' sight.

My question is, can the "domed" gold dot sights still be purchased?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-09-2019, 09:13 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Texas
Posts: 11,574
There are pros and cons between these gold bead sights; the change (a few years ago) from the domed to the flat style wasn't made to be cheap. Still, my preference is the same as yours...so I totally understand.

At one time, you could call and request the old domed version. I don't know if that option still remains available today.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member

"Freedom is only a temporary thing unless it is backed by the blunt capability and willingness to fight back against evil with sufficient arms." -- Myself
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-09-2019, 09:33 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia
Age: 51
Posts: 3,589
Huge difference.

Really stands out in pictures....I’m sure it’s even more evident in normal light.

Hopefully you can get the one you like.
__________________
Proud to be a Deplorable.....
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 12-09-2019, 09:42 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
There are pros and cons between these gold bead sights; the change (a few years ago) from the domed to the flat style wasn't made to be cheap. Still, my preference is the same as yours...so I totally understand.

At one time, you could call and request the old domed version. I don't know if that option still remains available today.
I sent an email with a request to return and asked if I could get the domed version. With the holiday I don't expect an answer anytime soon.

What are the advantages of the new style? I didn't play with it for long, but I'm having a hard time imagining how it could be better than the domed version. The flat bead is bigger around, but doesn't reflect much light in a dark room.

If the domed versions aren't available maybe I'll try the Ameriglo/tritium setup instead.

Anyone have any idea of a smith (or other) that would drill, polish, and install a good-old-fashioned dome-style bead in a simple black Wilson sight? That might be the way to go.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:05 PM
apipeguy's Avatar
apipeguy apipeguy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Michigan
Age: 64
Posts: 5,025
All mine except for one are the domed gold bead. The flat one in use does seem to work almost the same but is still slightly different. You can flitz or otherwise polish the flat to get it more reflective but I have not polished mine much at all.

I have a little over 7,000 rounds on my flat one and can’t say I don’t like it but again, it is different than the rounded version. Not enough difference for me to replace it with a rounded one. That gun was ordered with a domed gold bead but came with the flat. I could have sent it back and had it replaced but I decided to keep it and see what the difference would be.

I’d still order a domed but the flat really does work just fine. All personal preference.

Give Wilson a call tomorrow and see what they say.
__________________
David

NRA Patron Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:11 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by apipeguy View Post
All mine except for one are the domed gold bead. The flat one in use does seem to work almost the same but is still slightly different. You can flitz or otherwise polish the flat to get it more reflective but I have not polished mine much at all.

I have a little over 7,000 rounds on my flat one and can’t say I don’t like it but again, it is different than the rounded version. Not enough difference for me to replace it with a rounded one. That gun was ordered with a domed gold bead but came with the flat. I could have sent it back and had it replaced but I decided to keep it and see what the difference would be.

I’d still order a domed but the flat really does work just fine. All personal preference.

Give Wilson a call tomorrow and see what they say.
I agree. The new sight is not destined for my "very favorite 1911" so I could probably give it a try.

When I hear if the domed versions are available or not I'll report back.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-10-2019, 05:17 AM
Grandpas50AE's Avatar
Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Waxahachie, Tx.
Age: 69
Posts: 13,402
The domed are available, but you have to specify domed when ordering the gold bead. The standard gold bead is flat, and as pointed out above this was a transition made a little over a year ago.

Advantage/disadvantage is a bit subjective, but basically in light coming from left or right side the domed has a "shadow" side that makes quick sight alignment a bit off to one side, while the flat is more easily centered if it gets enough light to be seen. My own preference is domed, and I have learned to compensate for the disadvantage of side light, and prefer the more universal lighting conditions under which the sight can be seen. Again, it depends on lighting source and your own eyes.
__________________
Roger - Life GOA, CCRKBA, TSRA, VCDL
NRA Benefactor - Certs -Chief RSO; Instructor - Basic Pistol (D.E.), Rifle, Shotgun, PPIH, PPOH

Army M.P. 1971 - 1972
Wilsons: Several; Kimbers: 10mm (Wilsonized), .38S (Wilson barrel)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-10-2019, 06:32 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,564
3 of my 4 wilsons have the dome version, one has the flatter version which went unnoticed until i received the pistol and compared it to what i already have. The dome is more visible for the obvious reason of increased surface area. I dont know the flatter version is sufficiently less visible for me to change it. Red, green fiber optics, figure 8 trijicon night sites, i can see them all fortunately. That said, any other gold bead sites i would specify the dome.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-10-2019, 06:36 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,991
When I purchased my Xtac-E-CC out of WC stock 2 years ago it came with flat. Wasn't very conducive to fast sight acquisition even shooting outdoors in full sunlight. I had to send the gun back to have the trigger tuned better (after first shoot) and had them swap the sight to domed, much, much better. This didn't charge me to swap it I guess given that the gun was so knew...I wasn't cognizant of "shadow issue" G50 mentioned above, good info. Obviously I don't see such a thing in the high-sun of the outdoor range, going to see if I can notice it in various lighting situation's in my house though.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:05 AM
Grandpas50AE's Avatar
Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Waxahachie, Tx.
Age: 69
Posts: 13,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
When I purchased my Xtac-E-CC out of WC stock 2 years ago it came with flat. Wasn't very conducive to fast sight acquisition even shooting outdoors in full sunlight. I had to send the gun back to have the trigger tuned better (after first shoot) and had them swap the sight to domed, much, much better. This didn't charge me to swap it I guess given that the gun was so knew...I wasn't cognizant of "shadow issue" G50 mentioned above, good info. Obviously I don't see such a thing in the high-sun of the outdoor range, going to see if I can notice it in various lighting situation's in my house though.
The shadowing effect occurs when the sun is rising to one side of you or setting to one side of you (or any other light source that illuminates the front site). In midday light (or from relatively behind you), or reduced ambient light where the light is even from both sides, the effect is non-existent. The shadowing effect has to do with one side of the bead being significantly more visible (brighter as in more light to reflect) than the other side. For my preference, I want to see the sight (at least more visible) in a wider range of lighting conditions; others may have a different preference. It's all good as long as one recognizes the trade-offs made, as with most other personalized options.
__________________
Roger - Life GOA, CCRKBA, TSRA, VCDL
NRA Benefactor - Certs -Chief RSO; Instructor - Basic Pistol (D.E.), Rifle, Shotgun, PPIH, PPOH

Army M.P. 1971 - 1972
Wilsons: Several; Kimbers: 10mm (Wilsonized), .38S (Wilson barrel)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:16 AM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
The shadowing effect occurs when the sun is rising to one side of you or setting to one side of you (or any other light source that illuminates the front site). In midday light (or from relatively behind you), or reduced ambient light where the light is even from both sides, the effect is non-existent. The shadowing effect has to do with one side of the bead being significantly more visible (brighter as in more light to reflect) than the other side. For my preference, I want to see the sight (at least more visible) in a wider range of lighting conditions; others may have a different preference. It's all good as long as one recognizes the trade-offs made, as with most other personalized options.
I have noticed the shadow effect. For the most part I'm shooting drills with this pistol at 7 to 20 yards and it doesn't seem to be too detrimental.

Wilson confirmed this morning that the "domed & polished" sights are still available. All I have to do is return the sight I received yesterday. And pay return shipping.

Not very thrilled about that, as "there goes my on-sale discount". If Wilson is offering two different products under the same part number, then I think they need to be accountable for shipping charges when they arbitrarily ship one that the customer isn't expecting.

I know, it's only $10 for return shipping...but it's the principal of the matter. If Wilson would have made it clear that there were two options OR put a picture of the item they are actually shipping on the site we wouldn't have had this problem, because I wouldn't have ordered the item they are shipping.

So, a trip to the post office this morning and 20 more days of waiting for shipping both ways. Not sure when the "awesome" part of Wilsons' awesome customer service is going to happen.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:35 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
The shadowing effect occurs when the sun is rising to one side of you or setting to one side of you (or any other light source that illuminates the front site). In midday light (or from relatively behind you), or reduced ambient light where the light is even from both sides, the effect is non-existent. The shadowing effect has to do with one side of the bead being significantly more visible (brighter as in more light to reflect) than the other side. For my preference, I want to see the sight (at least more visible) in a wider range of lighting conditions; others may have a different preference. It's all good as long as one recognizes the trade-offs made, as with most other personalized options.
Makes sense why I've not noticed it. The pistol pits face east and so the sun is rising from the direction of the targets - which otherwise sucks for obvious reason's...Never been out shooting at sunset, that is kinda my nap time ;-), once the blood pressure medicine kicks in after 3:00 -LOL. I suppose to take it in the morning, but that would ruin the entire day. BP has gone down dramatically anyway after 2 years of retirement.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-10-2019, 12:37 PM
Dddrees Dddrees is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobconroy75 View Post
I have noticed the shadow effect. For the most part I'm shooting drills with this pistol at 7 to 20 yards and it doesn't seem to be too detrimental.

Wilson confirmed this morning that the "domed & polished" sights are still available. All I have to do is return the sight I received yesterday. And pay return shipping.

Not very thrilled about that, as "there goes my on-sale discount". If Wilson is offering two different products under the same part number, then I think they need to be accountable for shipping charges when they arbitrarily ship one that the customer isn't expecting.

I know, it's only $10 for return shipping...but it's the principal of the matter. If Wilson would have made it clear that there were two options OR put a picture of the item they are actually shipping on the site we wouldn't have had this problem, because I wouldn't have ordered the item they are shipping.

So, a trip to the post office this morning and 20 more days of waiting for shipping both ways. Not sure when the "awesome" part of Wilsons' awesome customer service is going to happen.
I just have to ask if for no other reason I don't think you mentioned it.

During your call to Wilson Combat did you voice this displeasure with the representative with regards to having to pay extra shipping because of what you believe is a issue with how they list parts?

Last edited by Dddrees; 12-10-2019 at 12:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-10-2019, 12:56 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dddrees View Post
I just have to ask if for no other reason I don't think you mentioned it.

During your call to Wilson Combat did you voice this displeasure with the representative with regards to having to pay extra shipping because of what you believe is a issue with how they list parts?
They sent me an email this morning. I asked if I had to absorb any shipping costs, being that I received an item that differed from the website picture. The response was, "If you can just get it to us, we will ship out the replacement for free.". I took that as a polite, "Tough sheet buddy".

So, I installed it an hour ago. I do like that it is bigger and that the top of the dot is level with the top of the sight. Took some pictures for you all...but they didn't really turn out (sight pictures are tough). Not impressed. As I suspected, it's a big, beautiful front sight if there is a light source directly behind you. Otherwise, it might as well be a painted white dot.

I'll put the domed sight back on the carry gun and install the trailer park gold dot on the range gun as they are the same height.

This comparison lead to a decision to give it a try:


Installed it and, "Pretty cool!"


Not bad!


And....nearly useless. It is not even remotely dark in the basement:


In a word..."Meh". Look at the bright side, now I know about the different gold bead sights.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-10-2019, 06:00 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
So, I have been browsing the Interwebs for gold bead sights. It seems like just about all of them are using the same style as the new Wilson setup (flat).

Does anyone know of a service or gunsmith that could drill a black, plain jane front sight and insert a gold bead? I'm thinking:

Real gold
domed
polished
as high as possible
as large as possible (diameter)

I'd pay for something like that.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-10-2019, 08:31 PM
old doc old doc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 3,772
Although the domed or bead gold sight is nicer looking, I find the flat gold sight to give a sharper sight picture.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:18 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by old doc View Post
Although the domed or bead gold sight is nicer looking, I find the flat gold sight to give a sharper sight picture.
The new style gold dot wound up on my range 9mm by the end of the day. Tomorrow I'll put some rounds through it to give it a fair try.

Since the dot is quite a bit bigger it might be good for shooting steel in daylight.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-13-2019, 08:26 AM
Budrichard Budrichard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65
Can someone Post a comparison picture?
__________________
EDC X9 - SIG Nightmare Carry 357
Colt Officer’s 45 - Colt 1965 National Match
Colt Gold Cup
Colt Combat Commander 70 38 Super
Colt Custom Competition SS
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-13-2019, 08:46 AM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budrichard View Post
Can someone Post a comparison picture?
Sure. This is what I had (old style):


This is the picture that is on Wilsons' site:


And this is what they actually ship (this is the white-gold sight, but dimensionally it's exactly the same as the gold bead):


The problem is that it's tough to see the difference from the pics. I was going to try white-gold, but the picture made it clear that it was not domed or polished. So I didn't order one.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-13-2019, 12:13 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,342
SDM gold bead is nominally flat but rounded off by polishing.

In olden days, the hemispherical bead was the McGivern style and the flatt-ish one was the Call bead.
A round shiny bead does tend to "shoot away from the light" and was obsoleted for target shooting by Mr Patridge. For fast coarse shooting in poor and variable lighting, it was the standard before tritium and fibre optic. And it is pretty.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-13-2019, 12:19 PM
Jacobconroy75 Jacobconroy75 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
SDM gold bead is nominally flat but rounded off by polishing.

In olden days, the hemispherical bead was the McGivern style and the flatt-ish one was the Call bead.
A round shiny bead does tend to "shoot away from the light" and was obsoleted for target shooting by Mr Patridge. For fast coarse shooting in poor and variable lighting, it was the standard before tritium and fibre optic. And it is pretty.
Great info. I like the "McGivern" style for just the reason you mentioned...shooting for speed at steel while drilling. It just seems to pop into my eyes against the black no matter where the light source is.

IMO the "Call" style is just another sight. No worse, no better. I put some rounds through the pistol with the "Call" yesterday and it was no easier to find that fiber optics, painted, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-01-2020, 09:30 AM
SpectrePilot SpectrePilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 241
For someone to install a gold bead in an existing sight call Gary at Amerigun at 248-343-4854.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Colonel, USAF (Ret)
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-21-2020, 03:51 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia
Age: 51
Posts: 3,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budrichard View Post
Can someone Post a comparison picture?


I'd be very interested in seeing the comparison pics, too.


The prior pics in the thread are no longer viewable for some reason.
__________________
Proud to be a Deplorable.....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved