New flashlight hold - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:12 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,163
New flashlight hold

Im trying to develop a faster more consistent first shot technique for low/no light. Here's a video of me messing around from today, I welcome all suggestions since my goal is under two seconds consistently.

https://youtu.be/U7iWTItj9no
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:45 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 71,109
In a real-world low-light shooting situation the goal isn't really shot speed, it's about rapid target ID and acquisition. You must properly identify if it's a friend or foe before you fire. If you have the entire range to yourself you should put up targets in all lanes with random numbers on them. Have the guy with the shot timer call out one of those numbers, and see how fast you can find the target with that number on it then fire and hit said target. Simply seeing how fast you can flick on a flashlight and blast a target in front of you doesn't really correlate with anything.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.

Last edited by dsk; 12-03-2019 at 10:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:53 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
In a real-world low-light shooting situation the goal isn't about shot speed, it's about rapid target ID and acquisition. If you have the entire range to yourself you should put up targets in all lanes with random numbers on them. Have the guy with the shot timer call out one of those numbers, and see how fast you can find the target with that number on it then fire and hit said target. Simply seeing how fast you can flick on a flashlight and blast a target in front of you doesn't really correlate with anything.
Takes me about .2 more to ID, doesn't slow me much at all hence why I'm just doing it on one right now to try and figure stuff out. I don't think what I'm doing is useless since I have to be able to see the sights and target properly to hit after all.

I usually do what you mentioned standing in front of the line with a rifle though so next time I'll do it with a handgun. Great suggestion, should be a lot more data from that. Thanks, I'll post up when I do that next week (I usually only have a full bay on Tuesdays when it's slow)
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:27 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,470
Good vid...

This is a really good application for the SIRT laser gun (or equivalent) at home...The only thing missing is the recoil, but after all, one can practice "recoil" any time at the range, and that is not what is being tested here per se. What is being tested is the ability to manipulate your light source and gun to acquire the target while going from dark to lighted environment. DSK approach is the better of the two approaches obviously - because it adds a "shoot no shoot" decision...

SIRT, doesn't replace dry fire with a real gun, but it has a lot of uses which add lot's of value to a dry fire regime. All done from one's home, save ammo, reduce automobile pollution, help saving the planet ;-).
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." ľUlysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 12-04-2019 at 08:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-04-2019, 10:28 AM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rocky mountain area
Posts: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
In a real-world low-light shooting situation the goal isn't really shot speed, it's about rapid target ID and acquisition. You must properly identify if it's a friend or foe before you fire. If you have the entire range to yourself you should put up targets in all lanes with random numbers on them. Have the guy with the shot timer call out one of those numbers, and see how fast you can find the target with that number on it then fire and hit said target. Simply seeing how fast you can flick on a flashlight and blast a target in front of you doesn't really correlate with anything.
This. Fun drill, so keep us posted, but I can see no scenario where I’d be up and poking around with both holstered light and gun, then suddenly hear a noise and start moving quickly with both. But like I said, fun drill.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:24 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 6,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Im trying to develop a faster more consistent first shot technique for low/no light. Here's a video of me messing around from today, I welcome all suggestions since my goal is under two seconds consistently.

https://youtu.be/U7iWTItj9no
Try the same experiment but wear yellow-lime glasses.

I suspect the bright white light is hitting the back of your eye and your eye is straining some, especially when going from dark to flashlight.
__________________
Citizens for 2A
"We choose truth over facts" - Joe Biden (Iowa Aug 2019)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-04-2019, 05:10 PM
Grandpas50AE's Avatar
Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Waxahachie, Tx.
Age: 69
Posts: 13,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter59 View Post
This. Fun drill, so keep us posted, but I can see no scenario where I’d be up and poking around with both holstered light and gun, then suddenly hear a noise and start moving quickly with both. But like I said, fun drill.
Pretty much like dsk said - real life situation you won't be drawing after you go into harm's way, but still a fun drill none the less. I can show you the technique for hand-held light in low-light shoot that Ken teaches, it is real-life practical for most situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
Try the same experiment but wear yellow-lime glasses.

I suspect the bright white light is hitting the back of your eye and your eye is straining some, especially when going from dark to flashlight.
Who is going to keep a set of yellow glasses on the nightstand and don them before going to check out bumps in the night, or don them before going into a semi-dark barn or other structure during subdued daylight? Most folks are going in with what they have at an "oh crap!" moment. Find what works in "unexpected" low-light moments that you are LIKELY to respond with. JMHO.
__________________
Roger - Life GOA, CCRKBA, TSRA, VCDL
NRA Benefactor - Certs -Chief RSO; Instructor - Basic Pistol (D.E.), Rifle, Shotgun, PPIH, PPOH

Army M.P. 1971 - 1972
Wilsons: Several; Kimbers: 10mm (Wilsonized), .38S (Wilson barrel)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-04-2019, 08:43 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,470
That Carry Comp is hardly jumping in your hand.........

I'm intrigued.........
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-04-2019, 09:33 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
That Carry Comp is hardly jumping in your hand.........

I'm intrigued.........
Like I've mentioned, it literally doesn't come off target lol! Come shoot it, I'll give you the gun and a spread of ammo at my range for you to go nuts with. I was using full power S&B [email protected] FPS, not as good as a 185+P or 230+P but softer to the point it's easy to use.
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-04-2019, 09:35 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
Pretty much like dsk said - real life situation you won't be drawing after you go into harm's way, but still a fun drill none the less. I can show you the technique for hand-held light in low-light shoot that Ken teaches, it is real-life practical for most situations.



Who is going to keep a set of yellow glasses on the nightstand and don them before going to check out bumps in the night, or don them before going into a semi-dark barn or other structure during subdued daylight? Most folks are going in with what they have at an "oh crap!" moment. Find what works in "unexpected" low-light moments that you are LIKELY to respond with. JMHO.
I would really appreciate if you taught me that, I realize that most of the time the light would already be out or in hand but I trying to work on if for some reason I need to pull both. Never worked on it before so I wanted to fill the gap.
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-05-2019, 03:06 AM
Reloader Reloader is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 469
Maybe I missed it - what was the "technique"? It seemed that the flashlight was held by the head - or somewhere out of sight and the gun hand extended to make the shot. If so, I think that is called the turret stance, versus the Harries, FBI (maybe generic police), gun mounted light, or Rogers forms.

Or was this simply practicing a technique new to you?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-05-2019, 03:55 AM
J Scott's Avatar
J Scott J Scott is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: TN
Posts: 1,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
That Carry Comp is hardly jumping in your hand.........

I'm intrigued.........
Me, too.
__________________
NRA Endowment Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-05-2019, 06:53 AM
Grandpas50AE's Avatar
Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Waxahachie, Tx.
Age: 69
Posts: 13,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
I would really appreciate if you taught me that, I realize that most of the time the light would already be out or in hand but I trying to work on if for some reason I need to pull both. Never worked on it before so I wanted to fill the gap.
Can do at the Bash. There are actually three different techniques, and I can show you all three.
__________________
Roger - Life GOA, CCRKBA, TSRA, VCDL
NRA Benefactor - Certs -Chief RSO; Instructor - Basic Pistol (D.E.), Rifle, Shotgun, PPIH, PPOH

Army M.P. 1971 - 1972
Wilsons: Several; Kimbers: 10mm (Wilsonized), .38S (Wilson barrel)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:21 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reloader View Post
Maybe I missed it - what was the "technique"? It seemed that the flashlight was held by the head - or somewhere out of sight and the gun hand extended to make the shot. If so, I think that is called the turret stance, versus the Harries, FBI (maybe generic police), gun mounted light, or Rogers forms.

Or was this simply practicing a technique new to you?
New to me since I primarily use a WML or have the light in my hand already then combine into the Rogers hold. Problem was I was finding that unless the light was already in my left hand I could not consistently get the Rogers to work and that I wasn't entirely happy with the sight lighting situation.

If I have something with a WML it's easy and nothing changes vs a normal draw, if the light is in my hand it's also fine but the sights are harder to use since all that's visible is the outline and maybe the vials. I was trying to figure out something that allows better view of the sights and is consistent every time without a WML since I don't prefer to conceal carry one.
__________________
Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-05-2019, 08:36 AM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 6,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post

Who is going to keep a set of yellow glasses on the nightstand and don them before going to check out bumps in the night, or don them before going into a semi-dark barn or other structure during subdued daylight? Most folks are going in with what they have at an "oh crap!" moment. Find what works in "unexpected" low-light moments that you are LIKELY to respond with. JMHO.
The scenario was not the question. The question was "any suggestions".
If you don't like the glasses recommendation, then put a filter on the flashlight (change the light color, etc). You dont need a bright white flashlight, a not-so-bright yellow-lime light is better for this scenario. If the goal is to quickly give away your position and to perhaps "blind" the perp, white strobe would be my choice, which I have available to me with button on back of my Fenix.
__________________
Citizens for 2A
"We choose truth over facts" - Joe Biden (Iowa Aug 2019)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-08-2019, 07:37 AM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia
Age: 51
Posts: 3,782
Certainly a scenario where real world training and repetition will reveal the "weak-link" aspects of a shooter's tendencies.

I don't think that this exact scenario is one that would pertain to me because I don't anticipate a time where I'd be going from both hands empty, to both hands drawing a light + gun + getting off timed shot.

I can see where I'd be in the dark and drawing a light and employing it. The gun being drawn and brought to the party would be a separate act....once the decision was made that it was needed.


* I do see value in your drilling this in keeping the hand/arm deploying the light well out of the path of the gun's sweep.

* After drawing & aiming the gun I can safely reposition my light bearing hand/arm to better support & brace my gun grip.


What I want to train / drill / practice is:
1) light drawn and deployed: from pocket, belt or holster.
2) light bearing hand pulled back against sternum as gun hand reaches for drawing weapon
3) gun drawn and "aimed" as light bearing hand stays pressed against sternum.
4) Light bearing hand repositions from sternum out to support gun bearing hand and assist with maintaining secure integrated hold + aiming of weapon & light.


All the above being said.....I've had no formal hands-on training and haven't benefited from actual coursework. I'm just wanting to make things safe while engraining a natural repetition to my process.
__________________
Proud to be a Deplorable.....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:24 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved