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  #1  
Old 10-07-2017, 07:42 PM
joemama joemama is offline
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Short extractor?

I bought a Wilson extractor to replace the original one in my 1972 Colt Combat Commander and it is way too long. The hook extends too far off the breechface, interfering with the case. Which reputable company out there makes a shorter extractor?

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2017, 08:18 PM
PD5523 PD5523 is offline
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2017, 07:42 AM
John Harrison John Harrison is offline
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2017, 08:37 AM
WilsonCombatRep WilsonCombatRep is offline
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Or you can trim the extractor to work. Thats what most people do.
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Sure! I would be happy to Google that for you!
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2017, 08:44 AM
jjfitch jjfitch is online now
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"Which reputable company out there makes a shorter extractor"?

OUCH!

Someone once said there are no drop in parts in the 1911!

Google: "fitting the 1911 extractor"

See......http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

Bill Wilson knows a thing or two about fitting 1911 stuff!

Cheers,
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Last edited by jjfitch; 10-08-2017 at 08:49 AM.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2017, 10:01 AM
John Harrison John Harrison is offline
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Originally Posted by WilsonCombatRep View Post
Or you can trim the extractor to work. Thats what most people do.
No argument from me, WCR. This is what I used to do - find the closest (usually shortest) extractor from my stock and whatever interference that it had with the case rim rebate, keeping the case from sitting flat to the breech face; I had to file away. The reason that I decided to go with the cut your own slot concept that I did, was that trimming the extractor claw's nose also weakens it.

Yes, it takes a mill to cut the slot and a fixture to hold it, but with 20+ 1911 manufacturers out there and dozens of extractor makers, there's enough tolerance stack that I feel a cut to size extractor is worthwhile.

Maybe you just need to take a whisker or two off the front side of the claw and you may never have a problem, but I sure hate to weaken a part that is a known point of failure on high volume 1911s.

The other thing that we haven't addressed is that if you have an extractor / slide combination that causes the case to be tipped over at an angle when you slip a case under the claw, then you also have a claw to breech face dimension that may be excessive and I believe is one of the various factors contributing to erratic ejection.

I have seen a lot of slide / extractor combos that were in excess of .090", which is just too much for me. I want to be down around .070" and have run them as close as .060". The trouble with .060" is that if you run beat up brass, you may have case rims with burrs that won't work with that tight a clearance.

Just my $0.02 worth........
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2017, 12:39 PM
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RetiredRod RetiredRod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Harrison View Post
No argument from me, WCR. This is what I used to do - find the closest (usually shortest) extractor from my stock and whatever interference that it had with the case rim rebate, keeping the case from sitting flat to the breech face; I had to file away. The reason that I decided to go with the cut your own slot concept that I did, was that trimming the extractor claw's nose also weakens it.

Yes, it takes a mill to cut the slot and a fixture to hold it, but with 20+ 1911 manufacturers out there and dozens of extractor makers, there's enough tolerance stack that I feel a cut to size extractor is worthwhile.

Maybe you just need to take a whisker or two off the front side of the claw and you may never have a problem, but I sure hate to weaken a part that is a known point of failure on high volume 1911s.

The other thing that we haven't addressed is that if you have an extractor / slide combination that causes the case to be tipped over at an angle when you slip a case under the claw, then you also have a claw to breech face dimension that may be excessive and I believe is one of the various factors contributing to erratic ejection.

I have seen a lot of slide / extractor combos that were in excess of .090", which is just too much for me. I want to be down around .070" and have run them as close as .060". The trouble with .060" is that if you run beat up brass, you may have case rims with burrs that won't work with that tight a clearance.

Just my $0.02 worth........
Easily worth 1000 times that.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2017, 01:11 PM
HogCommander HogCommander is offline
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Offering another "buy once, cry once" lesson at my expense...

After fighting with Sarco extractors which were always too long for my slides (mostly Caspian), I decided to order extractors from a few different vendors and compare them. Didn't record measurements handy but I was pleasantly surprised by the quality and dimensions of the Brownells extractor. Required minimal fitting and works like a champ.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2017, 07:17 PM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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I'd like to know how long is too long. Is the locator pad protruding beyond the breech face?
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2017, 07:24 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Too long is when the distance from the firing pin stop slot to the inside face of the hook causes the hook to be more than either the blueprint spec (.075"-.085") or your own preferred dimension such as mentioned by John in post #6.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2017, 08:06 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
Too long is when the distance from the firing pin stop slot to the inside face of the hook causes the hook to be more than either the blueprint spec (.075"-.085") or your own preferred dimension such as mentioned by John in post #6.
. . . or when the front end contacts the case bevel.

This is what you want things to look like:


Last edited by Steve in Allentown; 10-08-2017 at 08:09 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2017, 08:46 PM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
Too long is when the distance from the firing pin stop slot to the inside face of the hook causes the hook to be more than either the blueprint spec (.075"-.085") or your own preferred dimension such as mentioned by John in post #6.
OK Bill, thanks. I do understand the hook to breech face spacing should be within the .075 to .085 and that you don't want the hook to be touching the case bevel nor the shank below the bevel nor touching in any way when a cartridge is on the flat and up against the breech face but if the locator pad is beyond the the breech face that's not an error of the hook spacing to locator pad distance.

Either the slide is short, the FPS slot was cut in error or the extractor itself is beyond spec and in fact too long but I doubt that to be the case of a part coming from WC.

You mention slot to hook face distance: If that's the error then I can see the locator pad protruding into the breech face.

If one were to measure the length from the FPS slot to the hook on the original extractor and compare the same to the new one from WC, what would it show as a difference. That's really what I was after.
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Last edited by RUSS123; 10-08-2017 at 08:52 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2017, 11:08 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Too many variables to give an exact answer. That's why John Harrison offers a version of his extractor without a firing pin stop slot. Bottom line - Always remember that it is a 1911 and fitting WILL be required. It helps to remind yourself of that every time you work on one or at least it does for me. Sometimes that fitting will be outside the blueprint specs depending on just how that parts tolerances stack up. The locator pad length is not critical, so cutting it back to keep it from protruding is fine.
I have always set the hook to breech face at .075" except for the last one which I set at .070". That has worked really well for the kinds of guns that I have built. With those dimensions they have been tolerant of any brass that I have used and some of that has been reloaded many times. I see absolutely no need for it be greater than that as you do begin to get into issues with the hook crowding the case bevel. John, Jerry, and some other pros have gone less. I defer to their experience. I might go .065" on the next one.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2017, 01:14 AM
RUSS123 RUSS123 is offline
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Interesting, thanks Bill.
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2017, 05:43 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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I installed a Harrison stainless series 80 in a Colt Commander to replace a MIM extractor (so there were MIM extractors used ...) and it has the correct hook exposure out of the package. Beautiful parts John.
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2017, 07:58 AM
flechero flechero is online now
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Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post
(so there were MIM extractors used ...)
lol
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  #17  
Old 10-09-2017, 01:19 PM
joemama joemama is offline
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Thanks for all your suggestions. Just thought some might run shorter than others.

Gun was originally accurized by F. Bob Chow, so he may have changed geometry. I’ll probably go with the Harrison and have my smith mill the slot.
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