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  #1  
Old 05-09-2019, 10:03 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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New Tisas or old browning as first high power?

So I don't own a highpower, I would like one to try the platform out and see if I want to invest in a high end one. Is it better to buy a used older one or a new production gun from turkey? Also what changes do you Hi-power owners recommend? Thanks guys!
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:10 PM
rellascout rellascout is offline
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2019, 10:42 PM
Mazz Mazz is offline
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I searched for the real deal for several months. Found some nice ones, found some beat up ones. $600 to $750 for a well used BHP, compared to $1000 to $1500 for a nice used one, just did not fit my mood. Under $600 for a new Tisas, just seemed more to my liking. It's simply whatever suits your budget and satisfies your needs.

I looked at six to ten used BHPs in person. Almost bought one for $1200, until I put my bore scope light into the breach and took a good look. The exterior of the gun was really quite nice, but the bore was so pitted, I passed.

So I opted for the Tisas in stainless. It is not a Browning, but it is still a well-made gun. I'm happy with my purchase. If the $1200 BHP had a clean bore, I probably would have bought it instead, and would have been happy with my purchase as well.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:56 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by rellascout View Post
Uh this is a point of major contention? Sorry, I was not aware of this......
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  #5  
Old 05-10-2019, 09:40 AM
rellascout rellascout is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Uh this is a point of major contention? Sorry, I was not aware of this......
I apologize I was just making a joke. Here is a more in depth and hopefully helpful answer. You will find a few Tisas fan boys here who will tell you it is better than a FN/Browning but if you read between the lines you learn that some of them don't own a real FN/Browning to compare it to. That said I don't own a Tisas but I do own currently 12+ FN/Browning guns and another 6-8 have come in and out of the safe over the past 15+ years. So you will find advocates on both sides of this. I am not a BHP expert just a guy who loves the platform and has put some time and some money into them over the years. I am not a gunsmith and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so take my $.02 with a grain of salt and remember how much you paid for them.

I personally would not buy a Tias but lots of people on this forum have or intend to buy one. I would look for a good condition surplus in the $500 range like this one which sold for $475. The gun is finished challenged and looks like it was road hard and put away wet but it will be like most of the Israeli surplus guns which have been carried a lot but not shot much.



Clean it up a bit, remove the mag disconnect. Put a heavier trigger return spring in it. Install a new set of grips and hit the range. It will give you a feel for the platform and if you don't like it you can get your money out of it instantly at the price you paid. If you like the platform keep it and start looking for a VG to excellent condition MKIII to use as a base gun. I like to keep a stock example on hand as a reference point. Send it out to get reblued and for $600 +/- you have a legit FN/Browning gun worth what you have in it. I do this with 1911s as well. I have a stock 70 series Colt that goes to the range with any new 1911 as a point of comparison. It has served as the foundation for what I want and don't want in a 1911.

If you go the Tisas route you will pay about $500 and if you shoot it and do not like the platform and have to sell it you will not get $500 for it. You will be lucky to get in the $400 range in private sale. You have just driven a new car off the lot. Plus you are buying a clone with some known flaws. Springs, firing pin retainer, older safety and proprietary sight and sight cut etc... If you decide to keep it you have a $500 clone which is not a bad thing but if you really like it you will want a real FN/Browning at some point.

One major flaw is that I understand Novak will not work on these sights and they are the fastest least expensive way to swap out a set of sights on a BHP. IIRC someone from here was going to send one but they would not accept it. I know it can be done because C&S is using a Novak cut to install low mount sights on their level 3 custom package on the Tisas guns. The fact that C&S is willing to use them as a base gun is a plus but if I was going to put $1600 into a BHP it would not be a Tisas when you can do the same work on a real FN/Browning gun costing only a few hundred dollars more. As a counter to C&S the best living BHP smith IMHO Mr. Ted Yost will not work on the Tisas. He will not work on any clones because even the best of the breed are not up to the standards that he looks for in a base gun. So even amount the most knowledgeable of BHP smiths there is a difference of opinion.

Your OP stated
Quote:
So I don't own a highpower, I would like one to try the platform out and see if I want to invest in a high end one. Is it better to buy a used older one or a new production gun from turkey? Also what changes do you Hi-power owners recommend? Thanks guys!
Looking at your signature you own some very nice pistols. WC, NH Ed Brown etc.... If you are going to customize a BHP I would only do it on a FN/Browning gun. If it is going to be a heavy shooter I would look for a forged frame MKIII or a cast fame MKIII. These will be more durable than the older guns. Generally Browning Roll marks are more popular and more attractive than the later model FN rollmarked guns. The only advantage of the later FN rollmarked guns is that they can be checkered because of their serial number placement not being on the grip strap. However these days the only smith I know of that checkers BHPs is Mr. Yost so for many this is not a consideration. For Mr. Yost will checker T series, 69C series (with the right serial number location, Practicals and hard chrome models as long as they are thick enough. Not all BHPs meet that spec which I learned first hand.

As to what modifications to make this is my recommended list. I have custom BHPs from Yost, Williams, Garthwaite, Cogan, West, Novak and a few lesser known or unknown smiths. My thoughts come from doing basic builds to full house customs. I like to work with one man shops and talk to the smiths and get their take, learn from them through the process and put their expertise into the pistol. These are IMHO must dos if you are putting money into a BHP. Mr. Yost jokingly said, I am paraphrasing, that "really all a BHP need to get from good to great is a good trigger, good sights and a good safety everything else we do to them is to make them pretty for their owners."

Must do list:
  • Trigger, sear & hammer need to be replaced and tuned.
  • Reliability tune extractor, throat barrel & recrown.
  • Safety needs to be replaced with a custom piece or C&S part.
  • Sights need to be changed to meet the shooters needs.
  • Grips need to be fitted to the gun and the shooters preference.
  • Refinish in manner of choice.
  • Mod hammer if you suffer hammer bite.

Make it pretty list:
  • Stipple the grip straps.
  • Flatten and serrate the top of the slide.
  • High Cut the trigger guard.
  • Bevel Magwell
  • Beavertal if you like them I prefer no beavertail
  • Match Barrel but only if the smith doing the work thinks it needs it. All mine have factory barrels.
  • French Border the slide.
  • Checker rear of the slide.
Here are a few pics of some of my custom BHPs.











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Last edited by rellascout; 05-10-2019 at 09:48 AM.
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  #6  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:06 AM
crasig crasig is offline
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I am one of the FANBOYS who don't own an FN HP, for a few reasons.
*I already own 2 very nice scarce FEG CLONES.
*Cost of the only FN HP I want is about $3k.
*Comparative low Cost of Tisas STAINLESS BR9SS
*my TISAS IS STAINLESS STEEL & made nicer than FNs or FEGs
*Only OTHER Stainless HP is a high dollar custom.
*affordable reliable NEW STAINLESS (immediate classic) with lifetime warrantee -What's not to like, a must-have, no brainer IMO. Also I don't like the MKIII FN.

I sure have enjoyed my Tisas Regent BR9 SS Hi Power (only changed grips & Mag safety) love its sights & workmanship.
SEE MINE....
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  #7  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:15 AM
TNorris TNorris is offline
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In order: I have two new BHPs (9mm and .40), one older FEG, one ‘82 Silver Chrome BHP, a Tisas BR9 SS and an ‘81 lightweight BHP with an FN Detective slide.

I carry the lightweight. The blued .40 and the Tisas are the prettiest. I find MY FEG to have fewer interchangeable parts but I’m certain this is not true for all FEGs.

I love to shoot them all. Each has its own character.

I paid just a bit more for each of the used BHPs as I did for the Tisas at about the same time.

I’d say get the Tisas while waiting to find a great deal on a BHP. You’ll probably want more than one.
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  #8  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:31 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
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I don't really know anything about the Tisas, but Crasig's guns do look nice. I've got 5 Hi-Powers. Four are Brownings and one is an Elite Warrior Armament version. You probably can't go wrong either way between the Brownings and Tisas'. Rellascout's guns are insanely nice, so it's tough to compare anything to them, (and great post too).

I'd say this, I love Colts. Several makers make better guns, but the heritage of Colt can't be beat. With Hi-powers, Brownings have the heritage and history, at least as far as I know. So, that's what I'd buy.
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:26 PM
ToddSig ToddSig is offline
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I have both FN and clones. There are a lot of variables that come into play in making this decision, including budget (good condition Hi Powers can be found typically between $700-$1200, the Tisas around $550), if you wish to rework/refinish (added $$), availability of the FN you want, and whether you can wait for an FN of your choice and get a better deal or if you wish to act quickly and might have to pay a premium.

In my opinion, if you like the platform you should look first for an FN and not a clone. A new Tisas is nice and ready to go and shoot, but it is not an FN.

I always like to have the original first (seconding bradsvette's comments on history and heritage). That way you wont wind up saying I should have bought an FN/Browning Hi Power and I settled for a clone. If you are patient you can find good deals on Hi Powers.

Usually once you get into Hi Powers you start adding more as they are very addictive. After you have a few Browning Hi Powers, that is the time to add a clone or two.

Let us know what you decide.
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2019, 01:15 PM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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I have owned a Browning, and currently own an FN, an FEG, and a Tisas. Each of them are fine now, however I had to do quite a bit of work to get the Tisas to the point that I wanted it. I knew that going in, and the allure of a stainless P35 led me in that direction.
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  #11  
Old 05-10-2019, 01:54 PM
blastjv blastjv is offline
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What I did, and what I recommend that others do, is to shop around for a solid used FN with rough finish, but solid internals. Shoot it to see if you like it, and then customize away! I did a lot of the work myself and then sent it to Novaks for sights and a matte blue refinish. It's a fantastic pistol now. I paid $500-ish a couple of years ago (right as prices were about to go up), and only have a few hundred more into it with parts and the work from Novaks. No regrets!
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:19 PM
rellascout rellascout is offline
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Also I will add that people in general pay too much for BHPs. I paid $515 for this gun out the door shipped to my local FFL off of gun broker after the BHP was discontinued.



It became this. I did not replace the barrel because Mr Yost said it was good to go and it was the tightest grouping pistol of the batch he was working on at that time.



This gun sold on GB the other day for $611 plus shipping to your FFL. So most likely out the door under $650. 1992 MKIII in good to VG condition.



I bought this for right around $900 earlier this year. It is a 1969 T series but could not use it for my custom build and sold it for what I had in after shipping it to Mr. Yost him shipping it back and me shipping it to its new owner. He was out under $1000 for a T series in 93%+ condition.





People pay too much for BHPs. $500-$800 is the sweet spot for commercial BHPs. IMHO If you know where to look look often and have cash ready to buy when the right gun comes up deals are out there. There is no need to buy a clone unless you want one. The SS Tisas has and appeal to a lot of people but personally for me I would take the gun above for $650 send it to Metalife and have it hard chromed for $155 over the SS Tisas YMMV. Again that gun will be worth as much or more than you put into it vs the Tisas which will only depreciate. Not that I buy guns as investments.
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Last edited by rellascout; 05-10-2019 at 06:41 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2019, 08:52 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
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I have only one BHP, which came to me as a well used Isreali surplus gun. It's a MkI frame with a MkIII slide, and cost me around $550 total. Since then it has gotten a complete facelift. Completely refinished with parkerizing, a new barrel, and new internals. I am very happy with it.
I would love to have a Tisas, but since we cannot get them here in the benighted state of California I guess I am out of luck. But I think a Stainless Steel HP clone would be great to have.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:08 AM
rellascout rellascout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormilan2 View Post
I have only one BHP, which came to me as a well used Isreali surplus gun. It's a MkI frame with a MkIII slide, and cost me around $550 total. Since then it has gotten a complete facelift. Completely refinished with parkerizing, a new barrel, and new internals. I am very happy with it.
I would love to have a Tisas, but since we cannot get them here in the benighted state of California I guess I am out of luck. But I think a Stainless Steel HP clone would be great to have.
Just point of clarification there are no FN MK1s. They never used that designation. IIRC the Canadians were the only ones who used that designation for the Inglis HPs.

How does it shoot?
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:10 AM
FN in MT FN in MT is offline
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rellascout...Good, informative posts. I learned a few things. Thanks.

I have owned a total of 2 BHP's. One a .40 which I did not like, recoil too snappy.

And the other is an FN sent to Novak's 20+ years back , reworked and refinished. THAT one will go to the grave with me. GREAT pistol.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:24 AM
rellascout rellascout is offline
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Originally Posted by FN in MT View Post
rellascout...Good, informative posts. I learned a few things. Thanks.

I have owned a total of 2 BHP's. One a .40 which I did not like, recoil too snappy.

And the other is an FN sent to Novak's 20+ years back , reworked and refinished. THAT one will go to the grave with me. GREAT pistol.
Novak does excellent work and back then it was even better IMHO. In the 1980s and 1990s Wayne still worked on some guns IIRC.

I worked at a bank in WV at one time and they sent us to Parkerburg, WV for training. I stopped by the shop.
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:44 AM
watch collector watch collector is offline
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Well I sold my 1978 HP with less than 50 rds and slept in the safe. Bought me a BR9 which I now shoot on a regular basis. Shoots as good as the HP.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:12 PM
crasig crasig is offline
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Update: Nothing wrong with BHP, & I do intend to have one - IF the price is right. At present time they are high. There is unique one I want, but can't afford. Being retired & needing upkeep myself - I must satisfy myself with what I already have to enjoy.
I do not put a heavy round count through anything I own - Ammo is expensive.
So I did not go through my Tisas HP & ad new FN or upgraded parts. Partially due to cost, & that I prefer the old style small safety, slide lock, & hammer. So far MY TISAS has performed flawlessly - so I'll wait & see before I replace anything.
MAYBE - Some day I'll find that Grail HP.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:52 PM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rellascout View Post
Just point of clarification there are no FN MK1s. They never used that designation. IIRC the Canadians were the only ones who used that designation for the Inglis HPs.

How does it shoot?
It shoots fine. I've been using mostly my 1911s, so it takes some getting used to the trigger. I've already removed the trigger safety. Slide is a little loose on the frame. Frame has a Born on Date of 1980. (245PMXXXXX)
It has become my carry gun, due to the 13 rd magazine.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:29 PM
Im41911 Im41911 is offline
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Since you stated you want to try the platform out before investing in a high dollar gun I would buy whatever you can get the best deal on. Having said that you have an impressive collection of high dollar guns that shows you appreciate (and have the means to acquire) a fine handgun. I would "Buy once, cry once" and look for a fair price on a nice FN. Shoot a few rounds through it, and if you don't like it you can probably get your money back on it. I'd be surprised if you didn't take to it though. If you like it, then you already have the real deal. If you like it good luck on stopping at one, they tend to multiply. I have 4 FNs, a FM and a Tisas BR9ss and love them all. If I could only keep one it would be my SilverChrome which was my first Hi Power. Good luck on your search and let us know what you decide!
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:49 PM
Che Che is offline
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Originally Posted by rellascout View Post
Also I will add that people in general pay too much for BHPs. I paid $515 for this gun out the door shipped to my local FFL off of gun broker after the BHP was discontinued ...
I agree. Like usual you bring up some good points and as I expected opened a can of worms.

Take care my friend.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:20 AM
Donjfred Donjfred is offline
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My first HP was new mkIII. $1100 at a gun show. Nice finish, Lousy trigger improved with an SFS modification plus BHSS optimizing ($275) resulted in FAIR accuracy.
Then I bought a SS Tisas at Gunbroker for $550. Superb fit and finish! Same lousy trigger improved with Optimizing at BHSS plus SFS for $275. Superb accuracy!

Why take a chance in today’s market with an overpriced hit and miss used browning when you can get a new high quality Tisas for half the price?

This assumes of course that your looking for a BHP type to shoot or carry, not for collection purposes.

Added note: The Tisas SS I bought a few months ago for $550 are now being priced around $580 but even then are pretty scarce.
I think word is starting to spread about their quality. I guess the “fanboy” base is growing.



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  #23  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:11 AM
roc1 roc1 is offline
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I bought a handpicked Surplus Israel from Mach1 Arsenal for $500 it is a Browning marked pistol made in Belgium. Nice pistol I also bought the Tisas also a very nice weapon. I like both hard to choose both shot good both have spring upgrade from BHSS. Browning almost full kit Tisas only couple springs. Mag disconnect taken out. Either pistol good I bought Browning because I wanted a true marked Browning made in Belgium. Either one is a good shooter and a fine pistol. Unless you are a collector and just to have FN like I wanted one Tisas will certainly fill the bill as a good shooter and good pistol, plus it is SS.
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Old 05-26-2019, 01:42 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Always fun to psychoanalyze these questions.

Let's say you buy a Tisas or a scruffy Browning to test the waters...
1. You don't like it, so which is easier to resell?

2. You like it a lot and upgrade to a nice Browning. So what do you do with the cheapie?
Sell it? See 1 above, which can you move the easiest?
Keep it as a spare or loaner?
Keep shooting it and only take the deluxe gun out on special occasions?

3. OR, you like the cheapie well enough on its own merits but are not enthused enough to spend more on something nicer. No action required.
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:49 PM
rellascout rellascout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Always fun to psychoanalyze these questions.

Let's say you buy a Tisas or a scruffy Browning to test the waters...
1. You don't like it, so which is easier to resell?

2. You like it a lot and upgrade to a nice Browning. So what do you do with the cheapie?
Sell it? See 1 above, which can you move the easiest?
Keep it as a spare or loaner?
Keep shooting it and only take the deluxe gun out on special occasions?

3. OR, you like the cheapie well enough on its own merits but are not enthused enough to spend more on something nicer. No action required.
Why buy the cheap one when you can buy a LNIB Browning for $650 + Shipping and Transfer?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/813865477

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