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  #1  
Old 06-18-2017, 01:45 PM
fsgt fsgt is offline
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Burned/scorched Cases

New here and to reloading but not shooting. Spent my first week loading getting everything setup. Loaded some but have a problem with burnt cases. I'm loading 45 ACP 230g FMJ with 4.6g Titegroup using Winchester WLP primers. I started seating @ 1.26. Burn marks were bad. Read here that it was nothing to worry about. Started working down the seating depth to 1.20/1. Burn marks faded significantly but still there. It occurs in two 1911s and one XD 45. Performance is excellent and accuracy outstanding.

Question: Not so worried about cases as I am about what is occurring in my chamber. I know it is being caused by the case not forming a complete seal inside the chamber; could this be caused by poor brass?

Been a fan of this site for years and depended on the advice and content offered. Thanks and glad to be here.
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2017, 04:31 PM
Win94ae Win94ae is online now
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No, there is nothing wrong with your cases.

Your chamber may be bigger than your die sizes them. You could switch cases, you didn't mention what you were using.

You could try different powder; a different powder can make a world of difference.

Or you could tumble your cases, and clean your bore... there is nothing occurring, other than carbon build-up.
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  #3  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:32 PM
Twoboxer Twoboxer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsgt View Post
. . . I'm loading 45 ACP 230g FMJ with 4.6g Titegroup using Winchester WLP primers. I started seating @ 1.26. Burn marks were bad. Read here that it was nothing to worry about. Started working down the seating depth to 1.20/1. Burn marks faded significantly but still there. It occurs in two 1911s and one XD 45.. . .
You're ok, but looking at what you posted:

The blackening occurs in 3 different chambers, so it's not unique to a single (perhaps larger) chamber. Shorter OALs resulted in less blackening, so more pressure gave a better seal. These point to a light load.

4.6gr is in the mid-range of Hodgdon's data . . . but Sierra 9 has a range of 4.5gr to 5.2gr. And different batches of the same powder can require different charge weights (+/-5%) to produce equal pressure.

So were I doing this I'd step up 0.2gr at your 1.20/1 OAL and see if that results in a full seal. I'd handweigh all charges while doing that, and employ some checkweights (eg RCBS) in the process to make sure what the scale says is real.

My guess is the "burning" will go away, but you and your pistols may prefer the load as it is right now.
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  #4  
Old 06-18-2017, 06:38 PM
fsgt fsgt is offline
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Thanks greatly. When seeing the burned area I suspected a too heavy charge and I wasn't sure or trusted my scale...Like carrying a weapon you don't really trust...always in the back of your mind. Anyway, using a beam scale and an electronic one for verification. Both agree. Will knock it up .2 and check it. That is the limit charge (4.8g) for Titegroup. Thought about other powders...Need some guidance, can you help? I read where W231 is tried and true. JJ
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  #5  
Old 06-18-2017, 06:55 PM
Slow bullet guy Slow bullet guy is offline
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Sounds like you are off to a good start. My Hornaday manual states 4.8 as the max. You have a small amount of wiggle room, assuming all is working as it should. Try Bullseye or Red Dot of you don't get the results that you want. I also hear HP38 does some nice things.

Welcome to the journey. You will mostly follow a well traveled path, but you will have to blaze your own trails from time to time. Enjoy, and be safe.

PS. WIN231 and HP38 are supposed to be the same animal. Bullseye is the classic powder since the 45acp inception.
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:14 PM
RickD1225 RickD1225 is online now
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Titegroup is noted for burning quite hot. Try some Bullseye or W231 to see if the phenomenon goes away.
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  #7  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:16 PM
fsgt fsgt is offline
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It has been an interesting week. Lot of good information here when the instructions just don't cover it. Thanks for the help and advice. We'll be talking for sure. JJ
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:30 PM
Canvsbk Canvsbk is offline
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Tightgroup burns hot and dirty. WST or VV n310 will make you happy.
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  #9  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:35 PM
Trigger Creep Trigger Creep is offline
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The burn mark on the outside is called a 'stain'.

Titegroup is FAMOUS for staining the outside of brass. You do not have a problem.
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  #10  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:54 PM
drail drail is offline
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Funky brass brass is why we invented tumblers. It'll come off. I flamebroiled .45 brass for years with light Bullseye loads. They cleaned up like new. Corn cob and brass polish and time. It'll come off. That blowback is also going into your firing pin channel and extractor channel so keep them cleaned out.

Last edited by drail; 06-18-2017 at 08:59 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:10 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsgt View Post
could this be caused by poor brass?

.
not necessarily

you have the right take of why...not a pressure tight chamber seal allowing some gas to escape .(which isn't a big deal, nor unsafe)
It typically makes the gun dirtier is all

When you seated deeper, that caused pressure to rise, and thus sealed a little better ..and less case char (case char isn't a big deal anyway, as it doesn't damage brass or gun)
It's pretty much a fact of life for those of us that shoot light loads

what brass are you using?
as far as "poor" vs good brass...not sure there is such a thing as "poor" brass for 45 cal
(since Amerc is pretty much a thing of the past)

There are thinner/more malleable brass (Blazer, Rem R-P) and thicker/harder brass (Fed American Eagle and Win)
The thinner more malleable brass will seal better

You can get an idea of malleability by the way some makes of brass size easier (less pressure on the press handle) than other brass

..L.T.A.
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Last edited by Cappi; 06-18-2017 at 09:12 PM.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:34 PM
GOA Guy GOA Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Creep View Post
Titegroup is FAMOUS for staining the outside of brass. You do not have a problem.
Here's your answer.
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:50 PM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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I get it routinely as well and always on one side. Just assuming that is from the blowby during ejection? Is your filthy stuff all around the case?, Or only in one spot on the brass?
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:13 PM
saread saread is offline
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Geez, ignore it. It is not unsafe, and does not impair function or accuracy. Basically, it isn't important and you get no points for shiny brass hitting the ground. There are lots of things to think about when developing loads, and this issue doesn't make the list.
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:16 PM
studenygreg studenygreg is online now
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I reload .45acp with titegroup and berrys lrn. I have noticed the same thing. I didn't pay much attention to it though. Glad you asked.

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  #16  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:31 PM
DG1 DG1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsgt View Post
Thought about other powders...Need some guidance, can you help? I read where W231 is tried and true. JJ
I would opt for some AA#5 or AA#7 any day of the week.

You get a better case fill than the faster powders and that makes a double charge much easier to spot instantly.
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2017, 09:45 PM
1MoreFord 1MoreFord is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saread View Post
Geez, ignore it. It is not unsafe, and does not impair function or accuracy. Basically, it isn't important and you get no points for shiny brass hitting the ground. There are lots of things to think about when developing loads, and this issue doesn't make the list.
The above is the truth but it does require a bit more tumbling and if it bothers you I never had this problem with WW231/HP38.
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  #18  
Old 06-20-2017, 07:29 AM
andrew1220 andrew1220 is offline
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If it bothers you, get a hold of some N320 powder. Cleanest burning pistol powder and burns cool as its a single base powder not a double base powder like Titegroup. It has practically the same burn rate as Titegroup as well.
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  #19  
Old 06-20-2017, 06:43 PM
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Rifter Rifter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsgt View Post
New here and to reloading but not shooting. Spent my first week loading getting everything setup. Loaded some but have a problem with burnt cases. I'm loading 45 ACP 230g FMJ with 4.6g Titegroup using Winchester WLP primers. I started seating @ 1.26. Burn marks were bad. Read here that it was nothing to worry about. Started working down the seating depth to 1.20/1. Burn marks faded significantly but still there. It occurs in two 1911s and one XD 45. Performance is excellent and accuracy outstanding.

Question: Not so worried about cases as I am about what is occurring in my chamber. I know it is being caused by the case not forming a complete seal inside the chamber; could this be caused by poor brass?

Been a fan of this site for years and depended on the advice and content offered. Thanks and glad to be here.

They're not scorched or burned. That is simply carbon residue from the burning powder that gets in between the case wall and the chamber wall before the case expands fully. Increase you powder charge a bit, or change to a faster powder that reaches full pressure faster. Sometimes you can swap to a mag primer for better ignition, and in some cases you can apply a tighter crimp to hold the bullet a bit longer for better burning.
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  #20  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:11 PM
diver64 diver64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD1225 View Post
Titegroup is noted for burning quite hot. Try some Bullseye or W231 to see if the phenomenon goes away.
Yes, I've noticed it with some of my loadings too. Switch to a different powder kicks. The scorching on the cases will not hurt your firearm
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