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  #1  
Old 06-06-2017, 09:01 PM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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Gas rings on POF Ultimate BCG

Are they supposed to look like this? Looks like it may be to keep them from aligning but I'm not sure...I know, it's dirty.



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  #2  
Old 06-06-2017, 09:23 PM
Sgt. Y Sgt. Y is offline
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Looks like a ten year old installed them, it looks like they were over stressed too wide and cut down being crimped in. That would gouge the crap out of the BC chamber. I have been tearing down BCGs for over 32 years and never seen anthing like that. It reminds me of my buddy's Spikes upper and how crappy they assembled it and how I had to rebuilt it to make it work.

Buy some new gas rings and tell the company how crappy their QC is.
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  #3  
Old 06-06-2017, 09:25 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Short answer is NO. They aren't supposed to look like that.
Nowhere near it. I agree with Sgt Y, I've shot a lot of ammo thru many makes, suppressed and not, full auto and not. Never seen anything like that. Something blew em out.
What's the inside of the bolt carrier now feel like?
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  #4  
Old 06-06-2017, 09:26 PM
DG1 DG1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw410 View Post
Are they supposed to look like this? Looks like it may be to keep them from aligning but I'm not sure...I know, it's dirty.


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Hard to tell from the pic but that looks like one or more rings took a dump on you and you need to replace them all.

Assuming you have regular gas rings and some goofy one piece gas ring set-up that took a dump.

Hopefully you did not jack up the inside of your carrier before you figured out you had a 'problem'. If it is 'just' the rings - Those are cheap and you 'should' have spares in your tool box anyway.
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  #5  
Old 06-06-2017, 09:51 PM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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Ughhh. I'm glad I asked. Don't have as much experience professionally as some of you, only a little over a decade. Never seen this before. I only ran it for a few hundred rounds, strictly full auto. I bought it because it was suggested by a friend due to the roller cam pin. The bolt cams roughly and of course I'm sure that's why. No more bull**** magic cures for dubious problems for me. Sticking to GI from now on. Thanks fellas. To think I almost swapped out a standard Colt BCG for this piece of crap in a critical weapon. Thanks again.

Last edited by cw410; 06-06-2017 at 09:59 PM.
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  #6  
Old 06-06-2017, 10:01 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Are you also running a can on it? Adjustable gas block? Full auto induces a lot of stress on stuff. Suppressed FA even more so.
Could have just been cheap sub-contracted rings that couldn't stand up to the FA fire.
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  #7  
Old 06-06-2017, 10:08 PM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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I did a T&E thing for work with it on a shorty 300BLK (subsonic only) suppressed, and a few hundred rounds through my personal stock colt commando unsuppressed. I might replace the bolt it came with with a regular colt bolt but right now I'm so disgusted I may toss the whole damn BCG.
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  #8  
Old 06-06-2017, 10:47 PM
DG1 DG1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw410 View Post
I did a T&E thing for work with it on a shorty 300BLK (subsonic only) suppressed, and a few hundred rounds through my personal stock colt commando unsuppressed. I might replace the bolt it came with with a regular colt bolt but right now I'm so disgusted I may toss the whole damn BCG.

Colts that I 'like' get upgraded to BCM bolts.

BCM also sells quality gas rings, cam pins, extractors, firing pins, firing pin retainers, and LOTS of other good things you may wish to consider adding to / keeping in your tool box.

BCM gives you stickers (and other stuff sometimes) when you buy from them. VERY good quality stickers at that. The stickers are for your tool box...
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  #9  
Old 06-06-2017, 11:12 PM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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Originally Posted by DG1 View Post
Colts that I 'like' get upgraded to BCM bolts.

BCM also sells quality gas rings, cam pins, extractors, firing pins, firing pin retainers, and LOTS of other good things you may wish to consider adding to / keeping in your tool box.

BCM gives you stickers (and other stuff sometimes) when you buy from them. VERY good quality stickers at that. The stickers are for your tool box...
Oh boy, don't get me started on BCM. They may sell quality parts but their "tacticool" marketing gives me a headache.
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  #10  
Old 06-06-2017, 11:51 PM
wormraper wormraper is offline
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noooooooooooooooooo, those rings do not look good. buy some good rings from Brownells or BCM or the like and get that bolt fixed up. Easy fix.

as for BCM, I like what I've seen of BCM and have had a chance to look over their stuff. Good solid guns that have earned an excellent reputation for a reason. My only reason for not buying their stuff right now is that they aren't being price comptetive. Every other mfger on earth is having sales and cuts, while BCM is holding steady and running off their good name. It's not that they're not good stuff, it's just that when you are getting great sales from other great companies it's not my go to place because I'm not willing to pay more for just having BCM gear when I get get a Colt 6920 OEM for $650 or less, or other good companies having great sales... the price to what you get ratio isn't that good right now.They bring back the free BCG + discounted charging handle and that's a whole different ball game, but right now as it stands, the disparity is too high
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:47 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Originally Posted by DG1 View Post
Colts that I 'like' get upgraded to BCM bolts.

BCM also sells quality gas rings, cam pins, extractors, firing pins, firing pin retainers, and LOTS of other good things you may wish to consider adding to / keeping in your tool box.

BCM gives you stickers (and other stuff sometimes) when you buy from them. VERY good quality stickers at that. The stickers are for your tool box...
If you have any of those colt bolts laying around that you upgraded to BCM, Ill take em off your hands if you want to get rid of any.
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2017, 06:26 PM
DG1 DG1 is offline
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Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
If you have any of those colt bolts laying around that you upgraded to BCM, Ill take em off your hands if you want to get rid of any.
Just before the first presidential election Obama won there was a guy on one of the gun auction sites selling obviously well worn Colt bolts. These were what I would call 'very high mileage' from the looks of them and his starting price was around 50 bucks IIRC. In his auction pictures it appeared as though he had 50+ of them.

In those last few weeks before that election I watched that guy sell every darn one of those things...

Was amazing to see so many people snapping those up like hot cakes even though they were obviously well used.
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:10 PM
Sgt. Y Sgt. Y is offline
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Check out Toms Tactical they specialize in BCGs bought a Nickel Boron coated one for $120 and very nice and durable.
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  #14  
Old 06-08-2017, 03:54 PM
dj528 dj528 is offline
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With only a few hundred rounds through it I'd contact POF. My one experience with their customer service was excellent.
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  #15  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:47 AM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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Only if they give me a refund. Just a few hundred rounds and this happened. Compared to the standard Colt GI bolt and carrier which I've personally put thousands upon thousands of rounds through FA and SEMI and also been able to witness teammate's issues and out of all that not a single thing even close to this has ever happened. Sorry POF, you do not meet the standard.
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  #16  
Old 06-09-2017, 07:02 AM
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fast eddie fast eddie is offline
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I would call Frank at POF and ask him. He is a very deliberate engineer and nothing is done by chance. If its a malfunction / material issue, he will make it right.
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  #17  
Old 06-09-2017, 09:49 AM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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I'll forward them a pic and let them know but I'm really not interested in anything else from them at this point.
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  #18  
Old 06-09-2017, 02:47 PM
LWolken LWolken is offline
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The only way to avoid gas ring troubles is to not use them even the filthy 14 golden child of di rifles had multiple gas ring failures.
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:35 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Originally Posted by cw410 View Post
I'll forward them a pic and let them know but I'm really not interested in anything else from them at this point.
Definitely do that. And please post their response. I personally would replace the gas rings with Colt gas rings, inspect the Bolt carrier and call it good if the carrier is undamaged. I have seen this several times. Always it was from either little to no lube or some off brand out of spec rings. Not trying to defend POF but they may not even make the rings. They are probably out-sourced like many manufacturers and fall victim (as we all can) to the salesman who claims their product is the best.
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:42 PM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
Definitely do that. And please post their response. I personally would replace the gas rings with Colt gas rings, inspect the Bolt carrier and call it good if the carrier is undamaged. I have seen this several times. Always it was from either little to no lube or some off brand out of spec rings. Not trying to defend POF but they may not even make the rings. They are probably out-sourced like many manufacturers and fall victim (as we all can) to the salesman who claims their product is the best.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't an under lubrication issue. I'm generous with the lube and am meticulous about it as I believe it's essential to keep a DI gun (especially) operating properly. This philosophy was passed on to me by a senior SF NCO very early in my career and has resulted in very very few issues. Darrel from POF responded to me requesting additional information, gave it to him. Initially someone from over there sent me an "upgrade your DI" advertisement with all their aftermarket products for DI rifles. Not sure if it was a mistake or someone being an asshole. I'll update with their response although I'm not expecting much.
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Old 06-12-2017, 06:43 PM
Tootie Tootie is offline
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Looks like too much lube for one thing - that attracts a lot of soot and carbon. That doesn't explain what appears to be the bent ring(s). I don't have any experience with DI guns yet so I'm no help there. One thing for sure, you never align the rings, they should be staggered - 120 degrees apart or as close as you can get it.
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  #22  
Old 06-12-2017, 07:48 PM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
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Originally Posted by cw410 View Post
I'm pretty sure it wasn't an under lubrication issue. I'm generous with the lube and am meticulous about it as I believe it's essential to keep a DI gun (especially) operating properly. This philosophy was passed on to me by a senior SF NCO very early in my career and has resulted in very very few issues. Darrel from POF responded to me requesting additional information, gave it to him. Initially someone from over there sent me an "upgrade your DI" advertisement with all their aftermarket products for DI rifles. Not sure if it was a mistake or someone being an asshole. I'll update with their response although I'm not expecting much.
I didn't mean to imply yours was lack of lube. The pictures you posted show a nice amount of lube inside the charge handle which would blow out of the bolt carrier as it should when lubed well. Im sure theres something out of spec and if POF has any integrity would exchange the parts you have for new at the very least.
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  #23  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:08 PM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
I didn't mean to imply yours was lack of lube. The pictures you posted show a nice amount of lube inside the charge handle which would blow out of the bolt carrier as it should when lubed well. Im sure theres something out of spec and if POF has any integrity would exchange the parts you have for new at the very least.
It's ok, I wasn't offended or anything. Updated response from POF is that they would like me to send it in so they can inspect and replace it. I'm not sure I want to use it anymore so kinda dubious for me.
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:14 PM
cw410 cw410 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tootie View Post
Looks like too much lube for one thing - that attracts a lot of soot and carbon. That doesn't explain what appears to be the bent ring(s). I don't have any experience with DI guns yet so I'm no help there. One thing for sure, you never align the rings, they should be staggered - 120 degrees apart or as close as you can get it.
It was taught to me that the soot and carbon are a constant, the presence of lube acts as an intermediary to keep it from adhering and has the added benefit of wiping off more easily. Anyone who's spent hrs scraping carbon off of an M249 piston knows what I'm talking about here as an example. I have a friend who I served with and we've trained/worked together off and on for 10 years. His philosophy is exactly the opposite of mine, use a minimal amount of lube. He has a fair amount of problems to my great amusement, we currently only shoot together recreationally as we work for different agencies now.
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  #25  
Old 06-14-2017, 02:36 PM
Munch520 Munch520 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tootie View Post
Looks like too much lube for one thing - that attracts a lot of soot and carbon. That doesn't explain what appears to be the bent ring(s). I don't have any experience with DI guns yet so I'm no help there. One thing for sure, you never align the rings, they should be staggered - 120 degrees apart or as close as you can get it.
Staggered is a myth long since disproven. In a properly setup gun, all (or merely a couple) of the rings can be aligned and the carbine will function 100%
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