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  #1  
Old 09-07-2006, 03:16 PM
zenner22 zenner22 is offline
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New Colt Stainless Commander Rust?? Help!

Ok I just got home after finally getting the Commander I've been looking for for about 6 months. The dealer had to call around and finally found one. It is a stainless model, brand new. I'm checking it out at the shop and there are some brown spots on various parts of the slide and frame and around the trigger guard. I assume that this is excess grease and hand over almost $800 with taxes, etc.

Then I get it home to wipe it down and take some pics and those spots ain't coming off. I look closer and there is actually rust on this thing! I'm pissed, I just spent $800 on a new gun! A stainless one at that! I called up my dealer and wondered if we should send it back to Colt. He tried to downplay it, saying to bring it in and maybe some real fine steel wool will do the trick and if I wasn't happy we could talk about sending it back.

What should I do? I bought a brand new gun. It shouldn't have rust spots on it. If he can remove the spots without damaging the finish, should I accept this? Or should I insist on sending it back to Colt? I'm worried that even if he gets the surface stuff off that because it rusted once, it'll do it again. Any thoughts? I'll try to post some pics shortly.

Of course I am probably the idiot for accepting delivery on a gun that I thought had some excess grease, but is in fact rust. Anyone else had this problem with a new Colt?
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2006, 03:58 PM
43Colt 43Colt is offline
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Yes, stainless Colts can and do rust. I would take it back and try to get it exchanged.
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2006, 04:07 PM
RonS RonS is offline
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Some of the new "green" passivation treatments don't seem to be working out very well. I don't know that is the problem at Colt, but I have seen in with other stainless parts lately.
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2006, 04:08 PM
ronbo5151 ronbo5151 is offline
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Sorry to hear about your problem. Here are some suggestions for someone who had a similar problem on a stainless Springfield. Don't use steel wool on stainless.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...rust+stainless

Last edited by ronbo5151; 09-07-2006 at 04:44 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2006, 04:18 PM
zenner22 zenner22 is offline
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Here are some pics, assuming I can post these right. I reduced the resolution of course and that takes some of the wow factor out of seeing the spots. There are spots on the frame that I couldn't get a good pic of.

The first one (assuming I get these in order) shows a dark streak on the bottom of the frame. One pic shows another brown streak on the frame next to the rear of the trigger. On the full size pic you see the streak on the frame and discoloration on the frame at the rear of the trigger. There are also spots that look like shadows in the pic around the pin at the top rear of the frame right below the slide. There are spots on top of the slide too that I can't get a good detailed pic of. I took some Break Free and a soft cloth and tried to rub them out but had little success.

After noticing all this now I'm kicking myself that I didn't realize what this was before.
Attached Thumbnails
Commander1b.jpg   Commander2.jpg   Commander3a.jpg  

Last edited by zenner22; 09-07-2006 at 04:23 PM.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2006, 06:24 PM
JiminCA JiminCA is offline
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I had something similar happen with a new SS S80 NRM on the front strap. Mine was not as large as yours though - just little spots. As noted above it was probably a poor passivation and the rust stains were caused by little bits of carbon steel on the frame.

I cleaned it up with a toothbrush and some CLP. Or maybe it was MPro7. I don't recall. But whatever use a couple of solvents and/or cleaners or oils with a nylon brush and see what that does for you.

DO NOT use steel wool.

I would also try lightly working it dry with a pencil eraser if the CLP/toothbrush doesn't work. I would only do this on the blasted portions of the frame/slide, and not on the flats.

After that you'd have to get more aggressive and I'd call Colt first.

good luck.
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2006, 07:10 PM
Chuck S Chuck S is offline
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Household white vinegar and a stiff tooth brush will take the rust off, this is how we get rid of rust on stainless steel boat fittings.

-- Chuck
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2006, 07:11 PM
zenner22 zenner22 is offline
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Interesting method, Chuck, I hadn't heard that one before.
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Old 09-07-2006, 07:17 PM
trenace trenace is offline
 
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I had a small amount of rust develop over time on a stainless beavertail: Gibbs Penetrant and paper towels removed it just fine.

The advantage of this method is that it does not change the appearance of the finish at all, whereas harsher rubbing methods likely will make an area appear different than the remaining original brushed (or other) finish. All it does is loosen the rust particles where they wipe right off: everything else remains. It's the least intrusive method possible.
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Old 09-07-2006, 07:45 PM
43Colt 43Colt is offline
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No offense, but your pictures were poor quality so it was impossible to tell a thing. About the only thing I can say is that the mark on the frame looks more like a stain than rust.
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  #11  
Old 09-07-2006, 07:46 PM
SamC SamC is offline
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I 've used this trick to remove small rust spots. Put some gun oil on the rust spot and rub it with a pencil eraser. It's always worked for me and doesn't hurt the firearm either.
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2006, 07:57 PM
zenner22 zenner22 is offline
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Yeah those are some pretty crappy pics. I had a problem reducing them to the required size. Best I could do on short notice. But that dark spot does look like a stain of some kind. Rust spots are apparent on top of the slide and at the rear of the frame. But if that large streak under the frame isn't rust, what could it possibly be? It wasn't even phased when I used a soft cloth with Break Free and some elbow grease.
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Old 09-07-2006, 08:11 PM
RonS RonS is offline
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I'm no plating chemist, but as I understand it, passivation removes impurities from the surface that would otherwise provide a point of attack for rust or corrosion. If the passivation is not done right, these elements in the steel are left at the surface where they are exposed to air and other contaminants. Some might be steel left from contact with cutting tools, but some are other things, which might corrode or stain rather than "rusting". I suspect that the stain on the front strap is probably something different from the classic red rust spots elsewhere on the gun. I would take the best pictures I could and contact Colt and see what they suggest. I don't see why they would not refinish your gun. Of course you have to hope that the passivation tanks are in better shape for the re-do than for the original trip. I can tell you that the average plating operator will assume that his bath is fine as long as he can't see the (dry) bottom of the tank.
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2006, 09:30 PM
zenner22 zenner22 is offline
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This has been a real informative thread about metals, rust, etc. I am definitely learning a lot and understanding the manufacturing process much better. And the more I learn the more I'm worried that once rust is there, it never goes away completely.

I'm definitely leaning toward not having my dealer mess with the
Commander, and having him send it right back to Colt to have them fix it. I want Colt to have a record of this in case it becomes a recurring problem.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2006, 11:45 PM
TheGerk TheGerk is offline
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On a NEW gun DO NOT USE ANY ABRASIVE ON THE BEAD BLASTED AREA’S
Buy a tube of Flitz (or a bottle of Flitz polish)
It WILL remove that light brown surface rust on the flat’s and the bead blasted area’s and your gun will look like factory new.
It’s ok, you will get through this
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  #16  
Old 09-08-2006, 12:24 PM
D. Cicero D. Cicero is offline
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I would contact Colt and send it back to be refinished. They will do this at no cost to you. Colt pistols have a 1 year warranty on finish for the original owner.
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  #17  
Old 09-08-2006, 01:34 PM
zenner22 zenner22 is offline
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Ok just found out some more info on my stainless Commander. I called Colt with the serial number and they said it was made in, "Approximately 2006." I do not know whether this is part of their new production run that started this summer or if it was made just before production was suspended. The interesting thing is that either way it's not like this thing was sitting on a shelf for years. This gun is either weeks or months old. Not sure which.
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2006, 08:51 AM
ADP3 ADP3 is offline
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Rust Preventitive

Once you have the rust removed try Boeshield on the gun to keep it from returning. I live in SC and we have enough humidity here to walk on. I have not had any rust on my guns since using it. Brownells has it.
Best Regards,
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2006, 10:31 AM
desertmoon desertmoon is offline
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A very common misaprehension about "stainless" steels is that most folks think that "stainless" means "rustless". In fact in some languages stainless stell is called "rostfrie" or "rust free". This is not quite the case. Think of it more like "stain-LESS" as opposed to "stains really dammed easy". Stainless steels ARE more corrosion ( and stain ) resistant but they can certianly rust, particularly if stored in very humid conditions like the floorboard of a truck or in a leather holster under your bed in someplace with high humidity.


Another intersting note on the metals Colt ( and others, too ) uses. As you may or may not know, the key to getting stainless guns to work right is the use of varying alloys of stainless steel in the manufacutre of the piece, especially moving components. The reduces or negates an effect called "galling" where the moving components of metal stick to one another and severely abrade the surface. It was a commmon issue on old stainless autos. Some of these alloys are more corrosion resistant than others.
When I was dehorning my 1911A1 NRM, I ended up with a lot of polish marks ont he frame and hammer. When I was finished masking and blasting, my hammer had a nice texture but was REALLLLLY light compared to the rest of my gun.

Well, I sat there wondering what to do to match it up better and the parkerizing tank at my friend's shop just happened to come up to temp ( it was early and the shop was just starting up ) so I put the "stainless" hammer on a piece of dipping wire and put it in the tank. I figured if I was lucky, the alloy would not be as "stainless" as other parts of the gun and it would give the hammer a nice gray tone.

Wellllllll.......it was less "stainless" all right. LOL...it started bubbling ferociously and turned BLACK within SECONDS!!!! I couldn't believe my eyes!!!

Fortunately, a soft turn in the glass bead cabinet gave it a perfect gray hue...I just held the gun back about eight inches and "dusted" it until it turned a lighter shade of gray....WHEW!!!

So, you could certainly send the gun back to Colt's and have them redo it. But if you carry your gun as much as I do ( multiple times per week, concealed ) and shoot it as much as I do ( not as often as I'd like ) thne it's gonna end up scratched and buffed here and there anyhow. I'd use a soft toothbrush and vinegar or Iron Out ( gets rust stains out of cloths and can be found at grocery stores ) dissolved in hot water to get those stains off. Then clean it up good, take off the grips, rinse the gun with WD40 to chase the water and then blast it with canned or compressed air. Wipe down, re-oil, reassemble and SHOOT THE SNOT OUT OF IT!!!
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  #20  
Old 09-11-2006, 01:20 AM
DHart DHart is offline
 
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Interestingly, I've found slight rust spots on new Kimber stainless 1911 barrels and on a new Ruger stainless revolver... stainless steel can most certainly rust... but as indicated by others above, if it's a small area it's not a big deal and it's easy to get rid of.
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  #21  
Old 09-11-2006, 01:40 AM
Str8_Shot Str8_Shot is offline
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zenner22

There is a lot of really good information in this thread, including some information I did not know; such as using white vinegar or about Iron Out. Though, I recommend that you contact Colt and send it back to them. This is why you have a warranty, and it will show them where and what needs to be done to correct this for the next batch of pistols. Colt will make it right and they will take care of the shipping.
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  #22  
Old 09-11-2006, 09:43 AM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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One of the most common things that will attack stainless is chlorine.
The chloride in your sweat is more than enough to produce pits and a whitish colored corrosion product. A light film of oil is still needed for protection.

Stainless is normally passivated after machining to promote the formation of the protective layer and to remove any tool steel from the cutting tools.
Small dots and an occasional smear are common if pasivation is not adequate.
Passivation can be performed with a nitric acid bath, but greener methods are cooming into use that tend to be less effective.

Send it back to Colt.
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  #23  
Old 09-11-2006, 02:20 PM
javichin colt javichin colt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertmoon
A very common misaprehension about "stainless" steels is that most folks think that "stainless" means "rustless". In fact in some languages stainless stell is called "rostfrie" or "rust free". This is not quite the case. Think of it more like "stain-LESS" as opposed to "stains really dammed easy". Stainless steels ARE more corrosion ( and stain ) resistant but they can certianly rust, particularly if stored in very humid conditions like the floorboard of a truck or in a leather holster under your bed in someplace with high humidity.


Another intersting note on the metals Colt ( and others, too ) uses. As you may or may not know, the key to getting stainless guns to work right is the use of varying alloys of stainless steel in the manufacutre of the piece, especially moving components. The reduces or negates an effect called "galling" where the moving components of metal stick to one another and severely abrade the surface. It was a commmon issue on old stainless autos. Some of these alloys are more corrosion resistant than others.
When I was dehorning my 1911A1 NRM, I ended up with a lot of polish marks ont he frame and hammer. When I was finished masking and blasting, my hammer had a nice texture but was REALLLLLY light compared to the rest of my gun.

Well, I sat there wondering what to do to match it up better and the parkerizing tank at my friend's shop just happened to come up to temp ( it was early and the shop was just starting up ) so I put the "stainless" hammer on a piece of dipping wire and put it in the tank. I figured if I was lucky, the alloy would not be as "stainless" as other parts of the gun and it would give the hammer a nice gray tone.

Wellllllll.......it was less "stainless" all right. LOL...it started bubbling ferociously and turned BLACK within SECONDS!!!! I couldn't believe my eyes!!!

Fortunately, a soft turn in the glass bead cabinet gave it a perfect gray hue...I just held the gun back about eight inches and "dusted" it until it turned a lighter shade of gray....WHEW!!!

So, you could certainly send the gun back to Colt's and have them redo it. But if you carry your gun as much as I do ( multiple times per week, concealed ) and shoot it as much as I do ( not as often as I'd like ) thne it's gonna end up scratched and buffed here and there anyhow. I'd use a soft toothbrush and vinegar or Iron Out ( gets rust stains out of cloths and can be found at grocery stores ) dissolved in hot water to get those stains off. Then clean it up good, take off the grips, rinse the gun with WD40 to chase the water and then blast it with canned or compressed air. Wipe down, re-oil, reassemble and SHOOT THE SNOT OUT OF IT!!!

What kind of vinegar do you use to remove rust?
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  #24  
Old 09-11-2006, 04:31 PM
DevilDave1911 DevilDave1911 is offline
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More than the rust, I'd be really bummed out at what Colt is considering a "fitted" BT...man that's one gapped BT to frame fit. Is that stock from Colt? Doesn't even look like the BT goes with the gun...looks like some of the pics you see after folks install a King's drop in or some other third party BT. Hmm. for 800 clams I'd want a perfectly blended BT and frame...is it just me?

https://forums.1911forum.com/attachme...8&d=1157663808
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  #25  
Old 09-11-2006, 05:15 PM
zenner22 zenner22 is offline
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Here's the update on my new Commander that had rust spots on it. I took it back to my dealer today and he looked it over, tried doing a bit of rubbing with a cloth and some oil then gave it to his smith to look over. The smith looked at the spots on the top of the slide and said to remove them the slide would have to be rifinished. Then my guy got on the phone with his distributor who agreed to take the gun back and exchange it for a new one. So the good news is I should have the new one Wednesday! If I can get out of work early that day...

So things are progressing nicely! Better than I initially had expected.

DevilDave, the beavertail looked like the one on my Gold Cup Trophy I bought new a few months ago. I'm not sure if this is the standard one they put on Commanders now or not (I've read repeatedly that Colt will sometimes put on whatever's available). By design there are gaps at the top of the safety. It functions well on the Gold Cup.

I'll keep everyone posted on my progress.
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