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  #26  
Old 10-20-2014, 12:31 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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Sometimes there is variation in the same model. Below a Colt XSE LW Commander in 45 on the left and a Colt XSE LW Commander in 38 Super on the right.



When I weighed them a larger diameter 1 piece solid steel FLGR adds about 1 ounce to a Gov sized 1911 compared to the normal guide rod and plug. And the normal Colt plug has a hole up the center.

But like lucky socks or hat, if someone thinks they shoot better with one then they probably will.
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  #27  
Old 10-22-2014, 09:19 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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There are small -- VERY small -- pros and cons both ways.

The differences tend to be drastically overblown by those who think one is better/worse than the other.

I have several examples of both guide rod lengths in my 1911 collection. Happy either way, and truthfully I'm very happy that I have examples of both.

Going back to the OP question of "why", I believe some people like to add all kinds of options to "make" a "full house custom" 1911. I.e., some feel that the more "upgrades" from GI version of the 1911, the better; and that this defines a higher end 1911. I disagree with this view, as I think quality of the build is what's most important.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 10-22-2014 at 09:22 PM.
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  #28  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:06 PM
drail drail is offline
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It was just a trend that started back in the early days of IPSC/USPSA. Everybody else was using one. Like now all the young dudes want tall rims with rubber band tires on their ride. They can't tell you why, they just want them. Everybody else is doing it.
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:43 PM
David 13 David 13 is offline
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I am going to say kewler. I will go with that answer.
But I don't have the spoiler on my Honda.
dc
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  #30  
Old 10-23-2014, 12:15 PM
bartwatkins bartwatkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkippySanchez View Post
Some say the added weight up front helps reduce muzzle flip, but I've noticed no difference. The two-piece guide rod that came on my SA Loaded ended up in my parts box after a month or two, mostly because it kept loosening while shooting. Blue Loctite kept that from happening, but it was more of a hassle than I cared to deal with.

^^^^This....
No you will not anger the gods by changing it out.
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  #31  
Old 11-10-2014, 11:10 PM
MYankie MYankie is offline
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Internet hyperbole.
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  #32  
Old 11-11-2014, 10:37 AM
DArBad DArBad is offline
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For me, I like the perceived smoothness it gives to the cycling of the slide. That is why I started liking them. As a disclosure, I loath them with a passion for many years.

Here's the thing. They are relatively cheap items, give it a try. Go with the one-piece FLGR. If you do not like the results, its a simple matter switching back.
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  #33  
Old 11-11-2014, 01:26 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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Probably need a picture of what we are talking about.



On the top the normal guide rod and plug out of a new Colt Series 70, then a 1 piece steel FLGR and a two piece steel FLGR. I included a bushing wrench on the top, which I generally do not need to take down the traditional setup but do for a 1 piece FLGR. The two piece FLGR is a little longer so have the wrench to unscrew the front end, or more likely tighten it back up when it loosens up during a shooting session.

But high end pistols using a FLGR????? Below is a Taurus PT1911 that cost me $499 when they came out that has one. And ambi safeties. Checkered front of frame, etc.



Yet a Colt SCG that cost me $1.4K a couple years later does not have one.
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  #34  
Old 11-11-2014, 02:57 PM
BillD BillD is offline
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I've got a $3100 Cameron Custom 2011 that came with one...
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  #35  
Old 11-12-2014, 08:07 AM
Tango3 Tango3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DArBad View Post
For me, I like the perceived smoothness it gives to the cycling of the slide. That is why I started liking them. As a disclosure, I loath them with a passion for many years.

Here's the thing. They are relatively cheap items, give it a try. Go with the one-piece FLGR. If you do not like the results, its a simple matter switching back.
Great suggestion^^^^^^^

Rick
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  #36  
Old 11-14-2014, 02:18 AM
maxmanta maxmanta is offline
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They don't really add any advantage, but are a matter of personal preference.

I like them, so I use them.
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  #37  
Old 11-19-2014, 05:32 PM
Oldsalt65 Oldsalt65 is offline
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My E Series 1911TA came with one and I haven't seen he need to swap it out since the pistol is running great, and my SIG Super Target Nitron came with a GI setup and also runs perfectly.

Makes no difference in performance or difficulty of takedown to me either way.


Last edited by Oldsalt65; 11-19-2014 at 05:39 PM.
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2014, 05:28 PM
oldman45 oldman45 is offline
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All of my 1911 has FLGGR, even the custom made ones except for one. The one I had in the Army was full length also.

I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds through them and never had a problem.
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  #39  
Old 12-04-2014, 08:29 AM
JMB_fan_#45 JMB_fan_#45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechanic203 View Post
Their "advantages" do not seem obvious to me, but then I'm none too bright. The FLGR in my E Series just makes it a bit harder to field strip. All my other 1911s use the standard guide rod without any apparent problems...the design has been in use for 100 years so if it was a problem it seems to me it would have been abandoned long ago.

So, what are the advantages?
The answer is in the name: Guide Rod.

A full-length guide rod ensures linear and symmetrical compression and expansion of the recoil spring, which is a compression coil spring.

In the application of the 1911, the standard recoil spring, which is already of unstable geometry, is compressed way past its buckling critical length.

Its compression movement is chaotic, and does not evenly distribute the load along the circumference of the coils. This shortens the life of local high-stress zones in the various coils, and also increases wear where the coils flail outward and rub against the slide and frame.

In consideration of all that, the much more even and uniform compression movement imparted to the spring by a full-length guide rod should serve to extend the cyclic life of the spring, as measured by round count plus hand cycling of the slide.

I have not noticed a correlation between guide rod style and accuracy, nor would I expect one. A slight two-fold argument could be made in favor of increased reliability, but it's theoretical benefits would seldom be practically realized.

It is also possible that a FLGR merely serves to transfer the sliding wear on the spring coils from the Outside Diameter to the Inside Diameter, with the same wear rate and therefore no discernable difference in recoil spring service life, which would make all I just wrote previously, above, vain pontificating, and would also make me an erudite blowhard. .

Quote:
Would I anger the Gods if I changed out the FLGR in my E Series to the standard GI style?

Thanks
No. Go with your personal preference, for either aesthetics or field stripping sequence. This decision is of insufficient import to attract the attention of the gods - use the wrong firewood under your burnt offering, however.....
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  #40  
Old 12-04-2014, 10:21 AM
Sgt 45 Sgt 45 is offline
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Do I like them? No. My T4 has one and it shoots like a house afire - I'll keep it. My other 1911's do not and I prefer it that way and they are Wilson's, Nighthawk and Colt. The Kimber does and the Taurus did, don't shoot either of those much.
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  #41  
Old 12-04-2014, 02:02 PM
DArBad DArBad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMB_fan_#45 View Post
The answer is in the name: Guide Rod.

A full-length guide rod ensures linear and symmetrical compression and expansion of the recoil spring, which is a compression coil spring.

In the application of the 1911, the standard recoil spring, which is already of unstable geometry, is compressed way past its buckling critical length.

Its compression movement is chaotic, and does not evenly distribute the load along the circumference of the coils. This shortens the life of local high-stress zones in the various coils, and also increases wear where the coils flail outward and rub against the slide and frame.

In consideration of all that, the much more even and uniform compression movement imparted to the spring by a full-length guide rod should serve to extend the cyclic life of the spring, as measured by round count plus hand cycling of the slide.

I have not noticed a correlation between guide rod style and accuracy, nor would I expect one. A slight two-fold argument could be made in favor of increased reliability, but it's theoretical benefits would seldom be practically realized.

It is also possible that a FLGR merely serves to transfer the sliding wear on the spring coils from the Outside Diameter to the Inside Diameter, with the same wear rate and therefore no discernable difference in recoil spring service life, which would make all I just wrote previously, above, vain pontificating, and would also make me an erudite blowhard. .

No. Go with your personal preference, for either aesthetics or field stripping sequence. This decision is of insufficient import to attract the attention of the gods - use the wrong firewood under your burnt offering, however.....
Dang man, I honestly wish I could be as " erudite " as you But I just don't have it in me. Needless to say, I like how you explained things.

Last edited by DArBad; 12-04-2014 at 02:04 PM.
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2014, 03:32 AM
bigedd396 bigedd396 is offline
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if you like it keep it, but FLGRs seem like an answer to a question that wasn't asked.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2014, 09:27 AM
Big Pete10 Big Pete10 is offline
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Not onle expensive guns, my new 329.00 Citadel has a full length rod. GI works better but what you gonna do?
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  #44  
Old 12-06-2014, 11:50 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Why full length guide rods???

For the life of me..... I don't understand why they put them in ANY gun.
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  #45  
Old 12-06-2014, 12:01 PM
BillD BillD is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
For the life of me..... I don't understand why they put them in ANY gun.
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  #46  
Old 12-06-2014, 06:20 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by JMB_fan_#45 View Post
It is also possible that a FLGR merely serves to transfer the sliding wear on the spring coils from the Outside Diameter to the Inside Diameter, with the same wear rate and therefore no discernable difference in recoil spring service life, which would make all I just wrote previously, above, vain pontificating, and would also make me an erudite blowhard. .
LOL!!!

Okay...... you got my vote!!! LOL!!!
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  #47  
Old 12-12-2014, 07:46 PM
F350-6 F350-6 is offline
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I switched my E series bobtail commander out to a GI guide rod and flat wire spring. I like the feel of that better than my SC commander that I had to add a bobtail and GI guide rod to.
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  #48  
Old 12-13-2014, 12:08 AM
Johnny Dollar Johnny Dollar is offline
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Interesting that Wilson is touting their flat wire recoil spring (and I believe them) which requires a smaller diameter guide rod . And all they offer in this size is GI, not full length.
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  #49  
Old 12-13-2014, 08:39 AM
F350-6 F350-6 is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
Interesting that Wilson is touting their flat wire recoil spring (and I believe them) which requires a smaller diameter guide rod . And all they offer in this size is GI, not full length.
But if you really prefer the full lenght, EGW offers the small diameter FLGR and a flat wire spring. EGW also offers a true commander lenght flat wire spring instead of the spring for the 4" size that Wilson sells.
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  #50  
Old 08-10-2018, 04:43 PM
zzclancy zzclancy is offline
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Best

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMB_fan_#45 View Post
The answer is in the name: Guide Rod.

A full-length guide rod ensures linear and symmetrical compression and expansion of the recoil spring, which is a compression coil spring.

In the application of the 1911, the standard recoil spring, which is already of unstable geometry, is compressed way past its buckling critical length.

Its compression movement is chaotic, and does not evenly distribute the load along the circumference of the coils. This shortens the life of local high-stress zones in the various coils, and also increases wear where the coils flail outward and rub against the slide and frame.

In consideration of all that, the much more even and uniform compression movement imparted to the spring by a full-length guide rod should serve to extend the cyclic life of the spring, as measured by round count plus hand cycling of the slide.

I have not noticed a correlation between guide rod style and accuracy, nor would I expect one. A slight two-fold argument could be made in favor of increased reliability, but it's theoretical benefits would seldom be practically realized.

It is also possible that a FLGR merely serves to transfer the sliding wear on the spring coils from the Outside Diameter to the Inside Diameter, with the same wear rate and therefore no discernable difference in recoil spring service life, which would make all I just wrote previously, above, vain pontificating, and would also make me an erudite blowhard. .

No. Go with your personal preference, for either aesthetics or field stripping sequence. This decision is of insufficient import to attract the attention of the gods - use the wrong firewood under your burnt offering, however.....
Best explanation I've come across. Erudite, had to look that word up. Turns out it does not apply to me.
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