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  #1  
Old 03-06-2020, 10:08 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
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Low cost 1911s with high or relatively high round counts

There are a number of low cost 1911s out there. Brands like Tisas (which includes names like SDS among others), Rock Island Armory, Metro Arms, ATI, Norinco, Auto-Ordnance, Standard Manufacturing, Taurus, and maybe other's I'm not mentioning.

When people mention their experiences with the lower priced 1911s, they typically don't have a large amount of rounds through it, if I'm not mistaken. I thought it would be interesting and informative if people who have put large or semi-large amounts of rounds through their inexpensive 1911s share their experiences.

Posssible questions to answer:

1. How many rounds have you put through yours?
2. How many and what type of malfuctions have you had? Also what general kind of ammo was being used when there was a malfunction.
2. What part(s) broke that needed replacement or repair?
4. How picky the 1911 was with different types of magazines. Which magazines worked well? Which didn't?
5. Has the pistol been accurate?
6. Any other information a person wishes to provide.

Let's keep the discussion to 1911 makes that are inexpensive such as noted above. Let's avoid manufacturers that make more expensive 1911s but also have an economy model. An example would be Springfield. OTHOH, I guess Sprinfield's discontinued GI line should qualify for this thread since they were made in Brazil.
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2020, 10:18 PM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is offline
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Define"low cost" please and what do you consider "high round" numbers?
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  #3  
Old 03-07-2020, 01:58 AM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
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Originally Posted by JLS1911 View Post
Define"low cost" please and what do you consider "high round" numbers?
Good questions. For low cost, I guess not more than $500.

For high round count, or semi-high round count, I don't know. Perhaps 2000 or so. It sounds low but there's a lot of 1911s out there without many rounds through them, so I can't make the cut off number too high.
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  #4  
Old 03-07-2020, 06:17 AM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is offline
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Well being a newer shooter, since this past father's day, I only have 2 pistols. One is a Sig which didn't cost me a dime was a present but was more than $500.00 so that doesn't really count. The other is a Kimber Custom II Two Tone which I bought on a whim this last November at a pre Black Friday sale at a local Dunham's store for $580.00 out the door. Will be over the 2000 round count come tomorrow so close enough I guess. I haven't had any issues with it until very recently. About 6 failures to feed. Happened with two different magazines both were the ones that came with my Sig. I don't believe it was a problem with the mags. I recently tried a lubricant that we just received at work from a new vendor as a trial product. I'm almost positive that is the cause, I will find out for sure tomorrow. Been only running 230gr ball ammo of various brands. The only other "failures" I can think of right now has been ME. I should probably mention that it is .45ACP and way more accurate than I am at this point in time.
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  #5  
Old 03-07-2020, 10:03 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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I have read favorable reviews of Filipino copies in the few thousand round range.
I don't know of one in regular match and practice running up tens of thousands as is common among serious competitors.
Bear in mind that the Colt was accepted by the Army in 1911 on the basis of a 6000 round reliability and durability demonstration.
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Old 03-07-2020, 10:26 AM
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dsk dsk is offline
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I suspect that people who can only afford a $450 Rock Island probably aren't going to be able afford putting 20,000+ rounds through it either. I think this would be something for one of the YouTube celebrities like Iraqveteran8888 to try doing, since they seem to love doing "meltdown" videos using tons and tons of free ammo provided to them.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 03-07-2020, 11:13 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Armscor has a "team" with some successful competitors; JJ Racaza, Athena Lee, John McClain, and Eric Grauffel. But wait, most of them only endorse Armscor ammunition; only McClain is shown to compete with their guns. I bet he puts a substantial amount of Armscor ammo through Armscor guns. Wonder how many Armscor parts are still in them.
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Old 03-07-2020, 11:39 AM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is online now
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I bought a Taurus PT1911 when they first came out. It was about $500 with tax. I was the first person in my group of shooty buddies to have one. It was the one with the Heine sights and the key lock in the hammer.



It also had the Series 80 mechanical firing pin safety, but Taurus did checker the front of the frame in the grip area. It also had ambi safeties and a FLGR.

I let many of my friends shoot it after I got it and between them and me it easily has over 4K rounds through it. Now I have not had problems with mine but just about all my friends that bought one had serious problems with theirs like ambi safeties falling off and serious problems with reliable operation and I guess Taurus customer service was not pleasant to deal with.

Anyway these days I am very careful who I shoot it with as it might bring back bad memories for many of my friends.
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:19 PM
Rdgt67 Rdgt67 is offline
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Kimber and Sig low cost ?
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2020, 03:25 AM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
I suspect that people who can only afford a $450 Rock Island probably aren't going to be able afford putting 20,000+ rounds through it either. I think this would be something for one of the YouTube celebrities like Iraqveteran8888 to try doing, since they seem to love doing "meltdown" videos using tons and tons of free ammo provided to them.
I'll check out his videos. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Armscor has a "team" with some successful competitors; JJ Racaza, Athena Lee, John McClain, and Eric Grauffel. But wait, most of them only endorse Armscor ammunition; only McClain is shown to compete with their guns. I bet he puts a substantial amount of Armscor ammo through Armscor guns. Wonder how many Armscor parts are still in them.
I really doubt those guns are stock. If I'm wrong, someone let me know.


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Kimber and Sig low cost ?
Too expensive. They're mid-level guns, at least in terms of price.
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2020, 11:04 AM
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Anything mid-tier (Colt, Springfield, Kimber) or higher should be good for tens of thousands of rounds without a major failure. We're talking the low-end guns here, Armscor, Tisas, Taurus, and I guess Auto Ordnance as well. Sub-$600. In the case of those pistols I suspect the slides and frames should easily hold up for ten of thousands of rounds as well, but you'll likely get a lot more small parts breakages.

In the old days the biggest problem with cheap 1911s was the fact that their frames and slides were soft investment castings, and worse yet the tolerances were off meaning a lot of the parts had to be filed by hand just to get them to fit. Replacing something as simple as a mainspring housing often meant having to re-drill the through-pin hole because it wouldn't line up with the one in the frame. These days the quality of the steel and heat treating even in the low-end 1911s is much improved, and for the most part the tolerances are usually okay as well. The biggest issue with them is the cheap MIM and cast small parts, plus the fact that you're often buying a gun made in a third-world country using cheap labor where they don't know how to fit extractors or properly shape feed ramps.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 03-08-2020, 06:54 PM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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On a RIA, I would expect the extractor to die well before 5k rounds. The has been my experience so far and backed by several posts in the forums.
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Old 03-08-2020, 07:26 PM
Oldspad Oldspad is offline
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Metro Arms Commander, roughly 5,000 rounds...missed squib round causing a barrel bulge, needed new barrel and barrel bushing, probably due to weak loaded Winchester White Box...never again bought Win White box, stuck with my reloads, mostly 230 grain plated bullets. Changed springs at about 3K rounds...still a fun shooter...more accurate than I am. Companion guns are an American Classic Titan in Stainless, and Sig P220.
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  #14  
Old 03-12-2020, 11:23 PM
07AMF 07AMF is offline
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I have a Norinco from the 90’s with about 5000 rounds through it. Never any issues. Springs were changed as maintenance twice.
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Old 03-13-2020, 09:59 AM
jc2721 jc2721 is offline
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I owned a RIA 1911 a couple of years ago. I bought it from a "Japanese tourist shooting club" in Waikiki. They estimate that 50,000 rounds had been put through it. Surprisingly it wasn't rattle-trap loose (not tight either but worn smooooth) and it put 5 rounds into one hole at 7 yards so I bought it for $100.

Turns out that the rail above the slide stop window was cracked all the way through. I thought about doing a series 80 fix but never got around to it. It ran 100% for the few boxes I put through it, then I sold it to a buddy who had to have it. He still has it and shoots it infrequently (he bought another 1911 soon after the RIA).
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Old 03-13-2020, 03:24 PM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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"He still has it and shoots it infrequently (he bought another 1911 soon after the RIA)."

Its the condition contracted from shooting 1911's...
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:26 PM
Vulcanator Vulcanator is offline
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This guy on YouTube had the firing pin stop plate crack on his SDS 1911 after about 420 rounds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvr8kI9bAlY
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:53 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcanator View Post
This guy on YouTube had the firing pin stop plate crack on his SDS 1911 after about 420 rounds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvr8kI9bAlY
That's not encouraging.
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  #19  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:54 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
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All, thanks for the posts thusfar.
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  #20  
Old 03-25-2020, 03:05 PM
sambob sambob is offline
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Mine Is a Tisas Zig m with about 700rnds through It all of It 230gr ball 500rnds of It were TulAmmo no parts breakages a few jams(ammo related) paid about $400 for It about 6 years ago I've found It well made and accurate once you compensate for the garbage military style sights but, I think you'll find the sight problem with most 1911's.
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:18 PM
VIS35 VIS35 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07AMF View Post
I have a Norinco from the 90ís with about 5000 rounds through it. Never any issues. Springs were changed as maintenance twice.
I would also include the Norinco in the discussion. However, they are becoming hard to find in excellent condition. Mine is an early 80s' import ( SN 306xxx) that I've owned for many years. I probably have 6 or 7 thousand rounds without any issues. On any semi-auto, I replace the recoil spring every couple thousand rounds.
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Old 03-25-2020, 08:46 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
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Originally Posted by sambob View Post
Mine Is a Tisas Zig m with about 700rnds through It all of It 230gr ball 500rnds of It were TulAmmo no parts breakages a few jams(ammo related) paid about $400 for It about 6 years ago I've found It well made and accurate once you compensate for the garbage military style sights but, I think you'll find the sight problem with most 1911's.
Were the jams due to reloads? If not, it seems like it wouldn't be due to ammo.


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Originally Posted by VIS35 View Post
I would also include the Norinco in the discussion. However, they are becoming hard to find in excellent condition. Mine is an early 80s' import ( SN 306xxx) that I've owned for many years. I probably have 6 or 7 thousand rounds without any issues. On any semi-auto, I replace the recoil spring every couple thousand rounds.
Bummer they can't allow non hi-cap mag firearms to be imported from China. Last I heard, they let Chinese shotguns in the country.
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2020, 11:37 PM
ToddRvs ToddRvs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacebutready View Post
There are a number of low cost 1911s out there. Brands like Tisas (which includes names like SDS among others), Rock Island Armory, Metro Arms, ATI, Norinco, Auto-Ordnance, Standard Manufacturing, Taurus, and maybe other's I'm not mentioning.

When people mention their experiences with the lower priced 1911s, they typically don't have a large amount of rounds through it, if I'm not mistaken. I thought it would be interesting and informative if people who have put large or semi-large amounts of rounds through their inexpensive 1911s share their experiences.

Posssible questions to answer:

1. How many rounds have you put through yours?
2. How many and what type of malfuctions have you had? Also what general kind of ammo was being used when there was a malfunction.
2. What part(s) broke that needed replacement or repair?
4. How picky the 1911 was with different types of magazines. Which magazines worked well? Which didn't?
5. Has the pistol been accurate?
6. Any other information a person wishes to provide.

Let's keep the discussion to 1911 makes that are inexpensive such as noted above. Let's avoid manufacturers that make more expensive 1911s but also have an economy model. An example would be Springfield. OTHOH, I guess Sprinfield's discontinued GI line should qualify for this thread since they were made in Brazil.
Not sure if it qualifies but I built a Stealth Arms LW Commander that I have about 700 dollars in the build and over the past 4 years since I have had it, I guess I have put about 3000 to 3500 rounds a year thru it. I shoot about 300 rounds a month just to keep proficient, and in practice and the matches I shoot. I have run mostly 200 grain semi wadcutter reloads with some +p defensive ammo I shoot in it.

The only issue I have had, is the feed ramp in the aluminum frame got some what wore out after about 2 years of ownership. I sent it off to Briley barrels and had them put in one of their Match Ramp barrels which required milling out the feed ramp in the frame to fit the fully ramped Briley barrel, aside from being a little more difficult to field strip it has not given me any problems what so ever and is in fact my daily concealed carry gun.
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