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  #1  
Old 03-30-2020, 09:26 AM
oldjarhead56 oldjarhead56 is offline
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1911 design limits?

As a 1911 owner, for many years, I started researching smaller 1911 designed smaller, 9mm 1911 type designs, for summer carry. I was looking to carry a smaller pistol, in hot summer months, that had the same operation as my 1911. Well, I looked at three pistols, the Sig p938, Springfield 911, and the Kimber Micro 9. All 9mm. Of course reviews were mixed. The one thing that bothered me the most, is in two YouTube videos, owners of the Sig, and Kimber, reported and visually showed that the guide rods had breakage. The flat round disc shaped portion, that rests, on the bottom rear of the guide rod broke off, from the guide rod, during firing. Has anyone else experienced this problem? The Sig owner, in the YouTube video, that called on the phone, Sig Support, sounded like they had quite a few calls on this. Is the 1911 design being stretched too far?
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:35 AM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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Haven't heard much good about the Kimber and don't know anything about the Springfield. I do own a P938. Shot it a fair amount and had no problems once it was shot-in. However, I have no use for the cartridge it uses, and I stick w/ a .40BHP or Wilson CCO in .45aCP.

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  #3  
Old 03-30-2020, 09:40 AM
ironman_gq ironman_gq is offline
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Did they mention if the parts were solid or MIM?
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:47 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Those dwarf pistols are more nearly Star design than Colt, but I don't know if that figures into guide rod breakage.

Philip Lichtman was hung up on small guns - the only one that made it to production was the manually operated Semmerling LM-4 - and he found that if you are making a small gun with thin parts, you needed good material well fitted.

A friend has the little Kimber and it is a fine shooter after only one return to the factory but he does not shoot it a whole lot, so it doesn't say anything about durability of the guide rod.

Google finds an outfit making stainless steel replacements. I don't know why two of their reviewers say they work fine but only give one and three stars.
https://ssguiderods.com/shop/sig-sau...e-rod/#reviews
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:50 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Those dwarf pistols are more nearly Star design than Colt, but I don't know if that figures into guide rod breakage.

Philip Lichtman was hung up on small guns - the only one that made it to production was the manually operated Semmerling LM-4 - and he found that if you are making a small gun with thin parts, you needed good material well fitted.

A friend has the little Kimber and it is a fine shooter after only one return to the factory but he does not shoot it a whole lot, so it doesn't say anything about durability of the guide rod.

Google finds an outfit making stainless steel replacements. I don't know why two of their reviewers say they work fine but only give one and three stars.
https://ssguiderods.com/shop/sig-sau...e-rod/#reviews
The Mrs has a kimber micro in 380. So far so good but I'll admit the round count is low. Time will tell.
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:55 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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I've had no issues with my 938....
However, as mentioned, there micro 9mms are not really shrunken down 1911s....
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:05 AM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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I have a p938, it may look like a baby 1911, it may have the same style of operation, but internally they're nothing like a 1911.

The trigger is hinged, not straight back.

The guide rod is two-piece and protrudes out of the slide when you pull the slide back.

The safety works a bit different.

No swivel link, it uses something like what the hi-power has, and no locking lugs, it uses sig's breech lock.

The 938 had some teething problems when it was first brought out, and Sig's made changes to it. But, as always, initial problems will always be echoed and parroted in the internet.

Extractor trouble was one of the early problems. They'd break at the tip. I think that bit was and sitill is MIM. Guide rod seems solid to me, but then, mine's from 2015, just after they fixed the extractor issue.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:30 AM
havanajim havanajim is online now
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I've used my 938 in numerous action pistol matches. The thing is a solid performer and has worked like a charm. No, it's not a 1911, but it's close enough for me. It has what I require of any pistol: a manual safety and a hammer. And, it's quite accurate. I don't know what type of round count is required to cause the failures you've noted, but I'm not at the number yet, apparently. But then again, I don't put 1k rounds through it in a session/week either - the youtube fad du jour it seems.
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:33 AM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjarhead56 View Post
Is the 1911 design being stretched too far?
Technically the pistols you refer to are not 1911s. They share many of the same design features, but so do most modern pistols. Instead they are shrunken down and internally are different in many respects, despite being externally similar in appearance to a 1911. They are basically copies of the Colt Mustang .380, which as far as I am aware are not prone to the issues you mention. You can have a decent design and simply not execute it well, as has been shown with many guns as of late.
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Last edited by dsk; 03-30-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:35 AM
david_root2000 david_root2000 is online now
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I have a micro carry, a Micro 9 and a Sig P238.

The micro carry would not function. I called kimber and got an updated guide rod. It has functioned ever since. It is picky about ammo. Only feeds certain brands. I found it shoots Hornady Critical defense,. That is all I feed it except round nose for practice.

The P238 was purchased new and after 200 rounds has not faultered. Shoots ANY bullet shape. I put a Gallway trigger and main spring for an awesome trigger. Its easy to shot and hit with .

The Micro 9 was junk out of the box. I got it straightened out after a while and I carry it quite a bit. It feeds most anything and hits where I point it.

Kimber Micro carry compared to Sig P238. Sig blows it away. I bought both kimbers because the CT laser grips. They are not available for a SIG.

Micro 9 still has some quirks. 6 shot magazine is great. 7 shot mags fall out when shooting. I have to wrap my pinky around it to keep it in. I need to pull the hammer back a little to get the safety on, or put it on with the slide back.

Each of the 3 have had over 1,000 round, the micro carry more than 2,000. My wife practices with a lot.

David
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  #11  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:37 AM
KCJeep KCJeep is offline
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I had a P938, made in early 2016 after all the teething problems were supposedly ironed out and they were definitely not. I had all the same issues earlier models had, magazines ejecting when firing and on and on. Sig made it right twice but I got sick of sending it back to them.

Final straw was when it did exactly what you asked, snapped the guide rod off at the threads and launched it downrange like a javelin never to be seen again. I fixed it and sold it.

My buddy has a P938 he has not had a single issue with, I had 7 in 18 months, but his round count is really low. I shoot my carry guns.
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:14 AM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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I have something like 1600 rounds through mine, march '15 build date, 52Bxxx serial.

No breakages, yet.

My next mouse gun will be a pocketlite mustang.
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:27 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Every time I've had the inclination to look at smaller pistols, I've fairly quickly come back to a confirmation for me -- just myself, not suggesting others -- that a 1911 (1911 internals, dimensions, etc.) is well worth, in SD efficacy, its extra size and weight.
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjarhead56 View Post
The flat round disc shaped portion, that rests, on the bottom rear of the guide rod broke off, from the guide rod, during firing. Has anyone else experienced this problem? The Sig owner, in the YouTube video, that called on the phone, Sig Support, sounded like they had quite a few calls on this. Is the 1911 design being stretched too far?
If one person experiences a broken rod, and 10,000 people watch the video, that's not 10,000 broken rods.
There have been more than a few problems with the P938, those of which I was aware when I bought mine, three years ago, were mags dropping mid-string, sear spring migrating around its mounting point on the mainspring housing, grip screws backing out, broken guide rods, and probably something else I'm forgetting, but when I looked at the post dates on youtube videos, most of those regarding faults with the guns were from 2012-2014, and I think SIG has done a good job of fixing the problems; I've had none of those issues.
I've had issues with hammer follow, since repaired, and the last time I shot the gun, the disconnector got a bit sticky in its track, failing to reset; the latter could be a maintenance issue, as I chose to run the disconnector dry, and after 3000 rounds there was enough residue build-up to resist free movement.
My gun was absolutely perfect through the first 1000 rounds, which could be five lifetimes of shooting for some people.
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:01 PM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Colt 1991A1 is a compact compact.
Only real problem is the tiny flange on the recoil plug.
Not hard to replace with a reverse plug.
Takes some machining on on the slide to install.
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:52 PM
Daveboone Daveboone is offline
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I got my 938 about a year after they came out, and it has been flawless. I polished the ramp as soon as I got it, and up until very recently have only shot 124 grain Nato spec rounds through it. I probably have around 550 rounds through it, and have recently started to shoot my home brewed 115 grain plated bullets in it...100 rds, not a hiccup yet. I think that anytime you get a high performance package in a compact gun like that...regardless of design, you are pushing the limits. Look at what was considered a compact 9mm ten or twenty years ago? only .380s were available in a similar size.
So far I am very pleased with mine, and in handling...safety and single action at any rate, it is a great understudy for my 1911.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:13 PM
K38 K38 is offline
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No probs with my 238.
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Old 04-02-2020, 01:23 PM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Originally Posted by K38 View Post
No probs with my 238.
Except the hole are smaller.
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Old 04-02-2020, 06:52 PM
Plaidad Plaidad is offline
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Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
Except the hole are smaller.
Actually, .380 uses the same diameter bullet as 9mm. It just doesn't have as much velocity.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:58 PM
1911crazy 1911crazy is online now
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My norinco diy home build went great it’s the most accurate 1911A1 I have. But I think over all the slide groove setup could be redesigned. I have an idea I can’t say right now.
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:44 PM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjarhead56 View Post
As a 1911 owner, for many years, I started researching smaller 1911 designed smaller, 9mm 1911 type designs, for summer carry. I was looking to carry a smaller pistol, in hot summer months, that had the same operation as my 1911. Well, I looked at three pistols, the Sig p938, Springfield 911, and the Kimber Micro 9. All 9mm. Of course reviews were mixed. The one thing that bothered me the most, is in two YouTube videos, owners of the Sig, and Kimber, reported and visually showed that the guide rods had breakage. The flat round disc shaped portion, that rests, on the bottom rear of the guide rod broke off, from the guide rod, during firing. Has anyone else experienced this problem? The Sig owner, in the YouTube video, that called on the phone, Sig Support, sounded like they had quite a few calls on this. Is the 1911 design being stretched too far?
The "smaller" 1911 I've been looking for is the Star FireStar...a very compact .45 1911...5+1...all steel. Easy very easy to carry, shot great, and the beauty of the .45 round. I had a FireStar years ago...let it get away from me and now the only way to get one in California is PPT...if you can find one.
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:24 PM
1911crazy 1911crazy is online now
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I’ve owned many full size 1911a1’s but I didn’t like the commander or the smaller 1911a1’s.
I like the 5” barrels.
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Old 04-04-2020, 02:04 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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More in 1911 land I have a 2010 Colt Defender in 9mm and no problems. It shares the recoil spring system with its brother in 45ACP and I have a 2002 I bought new then and carried for several years. Below the 9mm.



Right now my fav in a 9mm carry pistol is the SIG P365. Will see how it holds up.
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