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  #1  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:01 PM
Mariod17 Mariod17 is offline
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inherited Ithaca 1911 war pistol

Need some advice Gentlemen, My grandfather left me a ithaca 1911 pistol and M16A2 ? That is what they called it anyway. I took it to a gun show in San Antonio and people were all trying to buy them. my grandfather was a capt (pilot) and carried the guns. one of the dealer took the gun apart to look at barrel and it said colt match ? The dealer and friends had a weird happy face they were trying to hide. They said it wasn't worth much and it was put together with parts, but he followed me and kept asking if i would sell it. can anyone tell me what i have and one more thing . The gun has united states and part of serial number grinded off . My dad said it was done when he brought it back from war. can anyone help Thank you
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Last edited by Mariod17; 03-30-2020 at 04:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:06 PM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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Can't help with your question, but WELCOME to the forum.
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  #3  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:14 PM
KAS300 KAS300 is offline
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How about some pictures of the 1911? Sounds like a GI-issued that somebody might have modified. No matter what I wouldn't sell either the 1911 or the rifle.
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  #4  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:16 PM
1911_Bandit 1911_Bandit is online now
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If it was a firearm originally manufactured without a serial number (serial numbers weren't required on firearms in the US until the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968), then no, it is not illegal. However, a firearm which originally had a serial number and had it removed - very much illegal. Don't flash that M16 around very much. I am assuming that is the one with the ground off SN.
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Last edited by 1911_Bandit; 03-30-2020 at 02:20 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:25 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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It sounds like a USGI gun that went through the rebuild im the late 50s, and put back together with mix and match parts.... it could also have had work done once it entered the private sector.
The obscured SN is concerning. If its a Property of US Government marked frame, it had a serial number at one point...
As for the M16, if its a legitimate USGI, select fire M16- its a Federal felony without a tax stamp... and while they might have let some 1911s walk away iver the years, they weren't quite that careless with M16s....
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  #6  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:25 PM
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Pictures would be necessary in order to tell you what you have. As for the serial number, as has been said removing or defacing an existing one is illegal.
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:37 PM
GySgt 7291 GySgt 7291 is offline
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As others have already said pictures are needed to identify what you have. The M16-A2 on the left side above the pistol grip is the selector, it will be marked safe-semi-burst. The link here is a youtube video about the Ithaca 1911 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WH_9UqTGUs There are some close up views and should be good enough to compare with markings on your gun. Post some pictures and lets see what you have.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:59 PM
Mariod17 Mariod17 is offline
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Thank yall for your input , the collection has been in grandfather possession sine he came back from war. i saw them once in his safe before he passed . my mom gave them to me and i had them for about 10 years in a safe, I dont know much about guns but i recently came across them and decided to find out more about them. Ill post picture today .
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2020, 05:36 PM
trckdrvr trckdrvr is offline
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Delete this thread..Lock door.
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2020, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trckdrvr View Post
Delete this thread..Lock door.
Contrary to popular belief there are no "serial number police" going around searching for these guns. Usually nobody is even going to know, let alone care, at least unless the gun is sold, stolen, or used in a crime. Then it might get you into trouble, especially if you're already in hot water for something more serious than just possessing a gun with a missing or altered serial number. However it is important for owners of such weapons to know that they're in possession of such a firearm so they can make a rational decision.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #11  
Old 03-30-2020, 06:21 PM
crappiecop crappiecop is offline
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Not a M16A2 but a semi-automatic Colt SP1 AR-15.

I'll let others tell you about the 1911A1 with the partially removed serial numbers.
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2020, 06:28 PM
deserttrans deserttrans is offline
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Looks just a AR-15 to me! As mentioned not a real M16.
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2020, 06:38 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Colt SP1 getting to be valuable.
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2020, 09:20 PM
GySgt 7291 GySgt 7291 is offline
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According to your serial # your rifle is a Colt Sporter 1 manufactured in 1968, civilian caliber .223 caliber so it isn't military issue of any kind. Hope that helps.
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Last edited by GySgt 7291; 03-30-2020 at 09:24 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2020, 09:49 PM
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BTW the SP1 is C&R eligible, being over 50 years old, so there are going to be guys wanting it just for that reason alone. Value is around $2000 or so.

The Ithaca however has seen its best days, and the defaced serial number is very unfortunate. You won't be able to sell it like that, at least not to anyone who doesn't want an illegal firearm on their hands. While you have various options at your disposal, the legal option would be to sell off all the parts minus the stripped frame then dispose of the frame. You could also contact ATF about it in hopes that they'll issue a new SN, but more than likely they'll simply ask you to hand it over.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #16  
Old 03-31-2020, 07:28 AM
Highpower3006 Highpower3006 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911_Bandit View Post
If it was a firearm originally manufactured without a serial number (serial numbers weren't required on firearms in the US until the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968), then no, it is not illegal. However, a firearm which originally had a serial number and had it removed - very much illegal. Don't flash that M16 around very much. I am assuming that is the one with the ground off SN.
It's not an M16, but merely a Colt SP1, perfectly legal in most free states.
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  #17  
Old 03-31-2020, 07:42 AM
1911_Bandit 1911_Bandit is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highpower3006 View Post
It's not an M16, but merely a Colt SP1, perfectly legal in most free states.
There were no pictures posted yet when I made that statement. Pictures were posted several days AFTER I replied. All we had to go by was the OP's inaccurate first post, claiming it was an M16. But thanks for correcting me when I am right.
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Last edited by 1911_Bandit; 03-31-2020 at 07:52 AM.
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  #18  
Old 03-31-2020, 07:51 AM
Sergio Natali Sergio Natali is offline
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Could you please post some better close ups of the ITHACA?
I don't think that those dark pictures can be so useful.
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If you're going to collect, be careful not to get drawn to a piece that is not original, make sure it is a very good example and buy the gun not the story.
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2020, 11:58 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Like Bandit, I was ready to freak out over a pilfered M16A2 which would be a lot hotter item than a scrubbed pistol. The pictures set me straight.

I think post 10 is definitive.
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  #20  
Old 03-31-2020, 06:43 PM
Q Tip Q Tip is offline
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Looks like the Ithaca serial number is 2639. Yeah that would work for me. Obviously a toolroom sample with those prominent tool marks. Cherish and enjoy it. And thanks to your Grandfather for serving our great nation.
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  #21  
Old 04-01-2020, 01:12 PM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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I'd keep both of them. They belonged to your Grandfather who served our country honorably. They are what I call "Family Guns", belonged to your Grandfather, they should stay in your family.
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