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  #51  
Old 04-01-2020, 05:51 PM
olivy olivy is offline
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I did think if I only have 10 maximum rounds why not have the biggest bullets possible? That was just an excuse to buy the Rock Island Compact I fell in love with at the range. Tried all the plastic fantastics and revolvers. 1911 felt and aimed right for me.
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  #52  
Old 04-01-2020, 07:42 PM
fogey1 fogey1 is offline
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My first 1911 was my Dad's Colt Ace and we shot it in my Grandmother's basement on the indoor range he'd used as a youngster.

Later, I carried various 1911's as issue sidearms.

Now, I have several in the safe. Yep, feels like a gun.
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  #53  
Old 04-01-2020, 08:20 PM
kitchencounsel kitchencounsel is offline
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I didn't notice anything until Saving Private Ryan came out, then suddenly prices for every American WW2 small arm from M1 Garands to 1911s shot up. Then they went even more crazy after the Band of Brothers series.

I remember seeing an Ithaca 1911A1 in the box (not necessarily NIB, but close) with an asking price of $900 and thinking that was too much. Fast-forward only a few years and that would have been a good buy.

I wondered if that would spread to the K98 Mauser, but the market was flooded by Micheals Mausers so it was hard to tell. Arisaka 99s doubled from a couple hundred bucks but at $400 were still pretty affordable.
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  #54  
Old 04-01-2020, 08:33 PM
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I bought a 1943 Colt M1911A1 in 99% condition for $799 the same year Saving Private Ryan came out. Within just five years it was a $3000 pistol. Prices have leveled off in the past few years, but they're still worth a lot more than they used to be.
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  #55  
Old 04-02-2020, 02:58 AM
CamoColt CamoColt is offline
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Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
The 1911 was the first truly effective large bore semi auto pistol - and it's popularity started with WWI and it has always had a following - which really took off in the 1970's due to Jeff Cooper and IPSC shooting. Until recently, all the SWAT teams, most Special Operations units, etc., preferred the 1911. And it remains popular, although the general public's tastes (and Police Administrators needs) have certainly reduced it's appeal to those who don't know any better.

The real reason gun shops fill their cases with plastic pistols (having worked eight years at an American Pistolsmith Guild shop) is based VERY largely on economic realities of trying to maximize profit. How good or bad the gun is is irrelevant to whether it will sell and make money. And, for young people, the 1911 is expensive - they can afford a $550.00 Glock - but an even $800 1911 that shoots the same size bullets and holds less of them? They need to know the reason they should spend 50% more for the steel gun - and most will never hear it from a gun seller that wants an easier sale and to make more money selling higher volume, cheaper goods. Gun shops LOVE the 9MM Fad.

When bringing in a product or a line of products the first thing the gun shop owner has to look at is his Profit Margin on each dollar he invests in Inventory. If I can make more percentage wise on Kimber over Colt, guess what - I will promote Kimber, even if it jams due to overtight and the MIM parts break - as Kimbers actually did, originally. (Colt also had a poor distribution system to dealers - which did not help.) And, because of how cheap it is to mold plastic vs. milling steel, I will bet the profit margins (at all levels) have to be greater per dollar spent in inventory on plastic pistols. You cannot ignore that margin and stay in business against those who use it to their advantage.

I will bet that both bulk and premium 9MM, simply due to high volume production - is more profitable to stock and sell than the more expensive (and more effective) Super .38, 10MM and .45ACP ammo. Even the very few people who do understand ballistics seem to forget when buying that a short barreled 9MM is in effect a .38 Special, - seldom actually reaching much more than 1100 fps out of actual owners sub 4" barreled guns.

The second reason was already alluded to: The kids see the movie heros shooting blanks out of a new model Glock, SIG, etc., and go buy the same model their fake Hollywood Hero is carrying - Human Nature 101.

All my heros I grew up with were not "fake pretty boys" - instead they really killed Nazis, Chicoms and Imperial Japanese soldiers with great success with their M1911's. And then Jeff Cooper showed everyone how effective a 1911 can be and from the 1970's on it was the standard. Fast forward to today - The young folks have never seen a 1911 or a revolver in a cop's holster, and know nothing of history or ballistics - so they don't respect them. Now all they see cops carrying are Glocks - so it must be the best, Right?

Gun shops have to make a profit to keep the doors open and the owner comfortable - so they go with the flow - the Cash Flow. How good or bad the product is, it's actual effectiveness as a weapon, after the new owner pays them and walks out the door is NOT their concern. CC
Those that can afford a $550 Glock should look into the RIA 1911 CF. I bought one, then bought a second. Neither was over $500. But that was almost 10 years ago. Still haven't worn out the first one so the second one is still in the box. That's cheaper than what I paid for my Kimber 1911A RF Target. Or the SA 1911 MilSpec.
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  #56  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:17 AM
7in1911 7in1911 is offline
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Maybe it's a regional thing? There are three well-stocked gun shops close to me. Ten years ago each one had a glass case dedicated to 1911-type pistols. Over the years their inventory shrank, to where now what few 1911s they still stock are grouped with the revolvers, while the glass cases are predominantly filled with plastic fantastics of every shape and size. And the 1911s are usually cheap ones from RIA, Auto Ordnance and Springfield. Amazingly I don't see Kimbers for sale anywhere, which is odd because ten years ago they were the most common brand out there. I've also noticed that most of the 1911s dealers stock are 9mm versions, not .45ACP. It used to be the only 1911s I couldn't easily find locally were Colts, but now if I want nearly anything else I have to special order it or buy it off Gunbroker.

By contrast there isn't a single shop in my area that doesn't have nearly every Glock model made, or SIG, or FN, S&W or Taurus. Those are the predominant firearms being sold where I live.
I was in a LGS about two weeks ago and they had a good 12 Kimbers in stock.

In fact, they always have more Kimbers in stock than they do Springfield or any other 1911.

They must be a good selling 1911 for them.
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  #57  
Old 04-04-2020, 05:35 PM
peacebutready peacebutready is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Okay, you take the .40 G22 and I'll take the 9mm G17. My own experience has shown that I can shoot the 9mm far faster and more accurately than the .40, especially out of a Glock. It wasn't too bad out of a Smith 4006 I had, but that thing weighed half as much as a Sherman tank.
I've acquired the impression a 9mm out of a polymer gun is OK in terms of recoil, but a .40 out of a polymer gun is a bit much. Is that the case for many people out there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
Most other pistol designs arrive with much marketing effort behind them, testimonials, articles in gun magazines, etc.

But most such designs have their moment of glory...and soon something else is the newest hot ticket...
There was the uptick in pocket .380s like the LCP, then the pocket 9mms became more in vogue.


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Originally Posted by MichaelE View Post
Well, you certainly won't notice it in a S&W 4006. That feels more like the recoil from a 1911 shooting .45ACP. More like what I describe as a 'rolling push' than snappy recoil.
IIRC, that model has an 11 round mag. The CZ 75 in .40 has a 12 round mag and Mec-Gar (OEM for CZ, I believe) makes a 14 round .40 mag.


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Originally Posted by CamoColt View Post
Those that can afford a $550 Glock should look into the RIA 1911 CF. I bought one, then bought a second. Neither was over $500. But that was almost 10 years ago. Still haven't worn out the first one so the second one is still in the box. That's cheaper than what I paid for my Kimber 1911A RF Target. Or the SA 1911 MilSpec.
Based on my experiences with the RIA I bought several years ago, I'd either spend more for a 1911 or go with the Glock. My RIA had to go back to the importer, was picky with mags, and inaccurate.


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Originally Posted by 7in1911 View Post
I was in a LGS about two weeks ago and they had a good 12 Kimbers in stock.

In fact, they always have more Kimbers in stock than they do Springfield or any other 1911.

They must be a good selling 1911 for them.
They're pretty looking but a person can do better for the price. I'm guessing the profit margins for Kimbers are high and if they need to unload them, they are discounted.

If inventories of a make/model like Kimber gets high in various retail outlets, I'm wondering if the factory gives rebates/incentives to retailers to unload them.
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  #58  
Old 04-18-2020, 05:01 PM
kitchencounsel kitchencounsel is offline
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Originally Posted by olivy View Post
I did think if I only have 10 maximum rounds why not have the biggest bullets possible? That was just an excuse to buy the Rock Island Compact I fell in love with at the range. Tried all the plastic fantastics and revolvers. 1911 felt and aimed right for me.
Funny you should say that. A few years ago I was in a Sports Authority in Hilo, Hawai'i looking for a nice pair of binoculars for whale watching. Well those were in the same case as the rifle scopes so I started talking to the sales guy about the situation in that state regarding guns, shooting, hunting, etc.

When we got around to discussing pistols, he pointed out that their selection of handguns was about 75% 1911s, with some Glocks and other makes - but they were almost all in .45 ACP because of the ban on "high capacity" magazines. He pretty much said that since people can only have ten rounds, they want the biggest, hardest-hitting ones they can get.

Once again, law of unintended consequences; I doubt that's what their benighted legislature had in mind when they passed the ban.
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  #59  
Old 04-18-2020, 06:13 PM
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Actually, a year or so ago there was an anti-gun article on CNN or somewhere that bemoaned how pocket guns were becoming more powerful and deadly than decades past. It mentioned how guns that used to be in .25 or .32 caliber are now .380 or 9mm pistols in the same size. Naturally they tried to make a connection with these new, deadlier pocket guns and increased fatalities around the country. So yes, if the anti-gun politicians catch wind of it you can be sure that there will be new laws banning guns over a certain caliber-to-size ratio as well. If they can't ban handguns outright they'll force us to own nothing but 48oz, 5-shot .22s with 10" barrels.
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  #60  
Old 04-18-2020, 08:28 PM
Colt Carson Colt Carson is offline
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Unfortunately the younger shooters don't appreciate the 1911 like we older shooters do. It wasn't the service pistol during their watch, is seldom seen in action films and just doesn't hold enough ammo to satisfy their short attention spans.
When I read on other forums of young adults so obsessed with round capacity that they are willing to modify 15 round magazines (they paid good money for) by modifying the follower and then physically cramming as many rounds as possible in there, I don’t hold much hope for them appreciating a fine pistol like the 1911.
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  #61  
Old 04-18-2020, 09:21 PM
MattLF9 MattLF9 is offline
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For me the 1911 just feels right, thin, solid big bore automatic, and as reliable as a tire iron.
I owned a plastic gun for a little while but it just felt like holding a box of crackers, and the grip was like the big end of a baseball bat.

Others I know share my same opinion, this is probably the reason the 1911 has really gained such popularity after the 80's, but who knows.
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  #62  
Old 04-18-2020, 11:08 PM
JMERC4 JMERC4 is offline
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I share the same sentiment. I first learned how to shoot using my dad's 45 and that left a lasting impression on me. That's what a gun should be. Even though I own and use different guns, I always come back to a 1911 platform gun. Hits the spot with me, not only ergonomics but also the history.

To me it'll forever be the "cool gun" to have.



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  #63  
Old 04-19-2020, 09:04 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
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I totally agree. Also, what's cool to me is that you can pick up a history book and read how important the older gun companies were to altering the outcome in significant events in history. Colt providing guns to the Texas rangers. Repeating rifles turning the tide in battles against the North/ South and against the Indians. The fact that 1911s were the issue handgun in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and some units even carried them in Iraq and Afghanistan is pretty amazing. When I pick up or holster one of my Colt 1911s, I never forget the history behind the gun. Finally, 1911s look like what a handgun should look like.
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  #64  
Old 04-19-2020, 09:23 AM
LateBraking LateBraking is offline
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Just a general question, but aren't we in a decline period with 1911s nowadays? I mean, it just seems to me that cheap, plastic, striker fired pistols have nearly the entire market.

It's like how Palmetto State Armory basically controls the AR-15 market now. And now they're introducing a Glock Gen 3 clone too, to boot.

I love my 1911s and 2011s, but among people I know, I feel like a bit of an outcast. With the exception of two friends, everyone runs modified Glocks. Sure they try my Wilsons and stuff and they love it, but then they run right back to their Glocks.

Rock Island is in their budget, but its a bit rough around their edges, and for the money they prefer a Glock anyways, too.

I feel like for 1911s to really surge to the forefront in popularity *in the coming age* they have to be above all, cheap, be finished nicely and properly dehorned, and come with optics compatibility and cover plates. And the latter two don't mesh well with cheap.

Last edited by LateBraking; 04-19-2020 at 09:28 AM.
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  #65  
Old 04-19-2020, 12:09 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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The world changes, and what people value (and can afford) changes, too. Right now the whole world is a bit off balance, and whether or not we will ever get back to what we thought was "normal" is still in doubt.
Cost factors will always favor plastic. But a lot of what drives the market for an individual are personal. If you have a wife, kids, mortgage, two car payments and a medium or less income - well, budgeting for each gun is a reality and cheap is good. RIA or Glock is your easiest buy in.
Younger people are not necessary objectively rejecting the 1911 as much as it is: 1.) More expensive when they have other perceived needs. 2.) Not currently carried by their action movie heros. 3.) They are no longer taught History, so they don't know much about ANYTHING that happened more than 5 minutes ago and 4.) They don't read unless it's on their phone or computer (Books? Those are for old phogeys!) and that is oriented toward marketing something - in this case plastic guns - to them.
I would wager that an age poll on this site would surprise you - how heavily it leans to the "older, more stable, affluent, professional/middle class" guy. Young people have not yet learned to value some things they should.
Cops were seldom outgunned back in revolver days - you only had six at a time, you knew that and so you did not "spray and pray" - you centered your target and put him on his back. Today it is perceived - through movies - that every encounter will be fifty rounds or more. When in reality, if you are still standing at your first mag change, you are doing fine - and have probably won the fight with less than that - you centered your opponent and he is down.
But perception is reality - for a great many. This is not a time of deep contemplation. Once they get to shoot a 1911 - and if it's still in their budget - many younger shooters will come around. I think the 1911 will always retain a certain following. It's the best handgun for many reasons - and now with 2011 types, high cap is available with that awesome trigger and better ergonomics. CC
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  #66  
Old 04-19-2020, 02:55 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
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Latebraking, I like your username, assuming it's got something to do with racing. However, I disagree that Palmetto State Armory controls the AR market. Where did you get that? I think Daniel Defense, POF, LWRC, Bravo Company, Spikes Tactical, S&W, Colt, FN, and many others might have something to say about that.
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  #67  
Old 04-19-2020, 03:30 PM
Sierra 49er Sierra 49er is offline
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Kinda got used to the 1911 during my OD green suit days in the '60s. It sort of stayed in my mind and when I could afford the price and time to train on them I bought one (well you can never have just one 1911!) and haven't looked back. I have some striker fired pistols, but my EDC is the 1911.
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  #68  
Old 04-19-2020, 04:37 PM
Lapse45 Lapse45 is offline
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I don’t think they’re losing popularity. Look at the number of manufacturers. For me it’s always been the way they look, feel and shoot. No other pistol feels so “right” to me. I’m definitely an older shooter (69) and have my obligatory Glock 26 ang Sig 229. But the guns I love are steel. Colt SAA, S&W 27 (pinned and recessed of course!) etc...
Bottom line to me, the 1911 is my favorite for my last 50 years!
And I have a new one ordered!

Last edited by Lapse45; 04-19-2020 at 04:58 PM.
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  #69  
Old 04-19-2020, 05:48 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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Originally Posted by LateBraking View Post
Just a general question, but aren't we in a decline period with 1911s nowadays? I mean, it just seems to me that cheap, plastic, striker fired pistols have nearly the entire market.

I feel like for 1911s to really surge to the forefront in popularity *in the coming age* they have to be above all, cheap, be finished nicely and properly dehorned, and come with optics compatibility and cover plates. And the latter two don't mesh well with cheap.
This is because most of the individuals who buy Tupperware never served or hunted or know anything about firearms. They just want a "gun", and they want it cheap. Pass.
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  #70  
Old 04-19-2020, 08:18 PM
pogo123 pogo123 is offline
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I have to agree with dsk to a point. The younger ones do tend to gravitate towards the newer lighter Hollywood guns until and if they are fortunate enough to be able to get a 1911 in their hands. I have seen it with my own eyes. The look on their faces and the joy in their eyes are unexplainable. At least the three that I have witnessed. Then they begin to realize that maybe the old farts aren't just a gaggle of blubbering idiots.
I gave my son a Glock 22 (.40S&W) when he got his concealed carry permit, and he couldn't hit s**t with it at 10 yards; shot into the ground in front of a target on 4-ft sticks. So then I gave him a Springfield RO in 9mm and he can almost match me shot-for-shot into a silhouette target at 10 yards.

May the 1911 never perish from this earth.
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  #71  
Old 04-19-2020, 09:13 PM
Jason D Jason D is offline
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Just a general question, but aren't we in a decline period with 1911s nowadays? I mean, it just seems to me that cheap, plastic, striker fired pistols have nearly the entire market.
A decline?

I don't know about that. There are plenty of companies still, that their bread and butter is derived from 1911 sales. It's natural for people to pick out guns from their generation to gravitate to. Everything young people are exposed to on television, movies, and video games are the more modern guns of their generation. These will be what they buy when they are able.

We can still expose them to the M1911.
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  #72  
Old 04-19-2020, 10:52 PM
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If we look further back into history, the 1911's popularity didn't really start taking off until the late 1960s. Throughout the early and mid 20th Century Colt's production and sales of Government Models and Super .38s was very low, in fact it was just a trickle compared to all the revolvers, .22s and pocket automatics they sold during the same time period. The government was pretty much the only large buyer throughout much of its history. But by the time of the Series 70 models Colt was finally selling every one they could make. The rise of combat-style competition shooting was a major factor, along with pubic interest in semi-automatic pistols which at long last were starting to catching up to revolvers in terms of sales. That and the fact that a lot of Vietnam vets wanted to buy a copy of the service sidearm they carried, and the 1911 at last began to take center stage.

The popularity of double-action, double-stack 9mms put a serious dent in 1911 sales beginning in the mid 1980s, especially after the Beretta was adopted as the new service pistol. But the 1911's dominance in competitive shooting, along with the interest in fancy custom 1911s assured its continued popularity. I agree with jtq that the slowdown is fairly recent, with the end of the AWB and mag capacity limits at the federal level being the main catalyst.
The 60's going into the 70's was when most police departments were still using revolvers and some department's slowly allowed some officers to switch to the 1911. The problem with police agencies is that they don't generally adopt a pistol because it's the most effective, they want one that is easy for novices to learn/train how to shoot and is inexpensive (lowest bidder BS), and often times based on illogical legal liability issues. Smaller departments didn't have this training/liability rigidity and would allow their officers opt to qualify and carry personally owned handguns with less restrictions. It's usually in these more liberal/open minded departments that you find 1911 pistols carried by officers.
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  #73  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:08 AM
VetPsychWars VetPsychWars is offline
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And this one, this one has a trigger that makes rifles blush in envy.
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  #74  
Old 04-20-2020, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Rohrer View Post
This is because most of the individuals who buy Tupperware never served or hunted or know anything about firearms. They just want a "gun", and they want it cheap. Pass.
Or maybe it's like the people who wear a Casio watch instead of a Rolex (both basically do the same thing), and they don't feel bad if they have to surrender it to the local constulabatory (or however it's spelled?) for a few years if they in fact have to depend on it once?

"Hey, Officer, are you wiping down my Nighthawk 1911with a silicone rag regularly?"

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Old 04-20-2020, 12:02 PM
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Or maybe it's like the people who wear a Casio watch instead of a Rolex (both basically do the same thing), and they don't feel bad if they have to surrender it to the local constulabatory (or however it's spelled?) for a few years if they in fact have to depend on it once?

"Hey, Officer, are you wiping down my Nighthawk 1911with a silicone rag regularly?"

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As he slams the side closed a few times a day without a cartridge to buffer it.

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