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  #101  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:26 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
No, we're talking about letting terrorists run rampant vs stopping the terrorist activity as it is occurring.....

At best, its catch and release for these thugs. Exactly zero will be held, tried, and convicted. 20+ years of history demonstrates this to be true.

We either allow it or we stop it.
Couch it how you want. You've advocated shooting unarmed American Citizens instead of arresting them and giving them a jury trial.
Okay......so what I'm hearing is I can effectively come to your place and throw bricks to break your windows, kick your door in, take whatever I want, beat you down if you try and stop me and then toss a few gallons of gas and a match on my way out and NONE of that warrants any sort of retaliation?

Where do you live since I've always wanted an M5

EDIT: for clarity I'm not serious in any way about attacking you, just using the example of duck action to make a point.
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Last edited by Striker2237; 05-31-2020 at 08:36 PM.
  #102  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:29 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Couch it how you want. You've advocated shooting unarmed American Citizens instead of arresting them and giving them a jury trial.
Again, no. I advocated shooting armed (with bricks, firebombs, or otber lethal objects) terrorists, in the act of committing violence.

If I believed for a second that they WOULD be arrested and tried, I may have a different perspective. However, that ISN'T happening- LE is being told to just sit and watch.

Throwing a firebomb or brick- or walking down the street, blasting away with an AK- there's no difference. Its potentially deadly violence.
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  #103  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:33 PM
krunchnik krunchnik is offline
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This country does not execute unarmed people for throwing rocks and looting. We just don't.

You guys think you've seen a riot or civil unrest? You ain't seen nothing yet.

Let a cop put a bullet through the head of an unarmed protester. Our inner cities will explode.
They are already exploding!!
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  #104  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:37 PM
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STORM2 STORM2 is online now
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Of course not. Provide a link to an instance in all of these protests where someone's family was burned alive.

We're talking about arresting looters and rock throwers, giving them a speedy and fair trial as guaranteed by the Constitution, vs shooting them on sight as some here have advocated.
My conversation addressed arson specifically. The ignition spark of arson is the exact second the rules change. That should be the line of demarcation which switches from crime to terror. Fire is a deadly weapon that can bring down very tall buildings and spread a hundred miles. Ask the folks in NY about 911 or the wildfire victims in CA.
  #105  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:46 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Throwing a firebomb or brick- or walking down the street, blasting away with an AK- there's no difference. Its potentially deadly violence.
Nonsense. There's a massive difference. However acknowledgement of that difference doesn't fit your narrative. If what you say is true, sell all your guns and fill your gun safe with rocks, empty longnecks and a gallon of Sunocos finest.

I'm pretty sure if the Taliban was armed with rocks and Molotov cocktails instead of AK's .....we'da been out of Afghanistan about a week after our guys got off the planes.
  #106  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:55 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Nonsense. There's a massive difference. However acknowledgement of that difference doesn't fit your narrative. If what you say is true, sell all your guns and fill your gun safe with rocks, empty longnecks and a gallon of Sunocos finest.

I'm pretty sure if the Taliban was armed with rocks and Molotov cocktails instead of AK's .....we'da been out of Afghanistan about a week after our guys got off the planes.
The very real potential for deadly results exists ... its juat a matter of degrees and efficiency. Whether you're shot in the head, or have your skull crushed with a brick- dead is dead...

So, what is your realistic solution? Trials and convictions wilm NOT happen. In the interim, billions of dollars in damage is being done, nationwide. How do you stop the violence?
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  #107  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:00 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Okay......so what I'm hearing is I can effectively come to your place and throw bricks to break your windows, kick your door in, take whatever I want, beat you down if you try and stop me and then toss a few gallons of gas and a match on my way out and NONE of that warrants any sort of retaliation?

Where do you live since I've always wanted an M5

EDIT: for clarity I'm not serious in any way about attacking you, just using the example of duck action to make a point.
Yep....I get it. Does anyone have the right to defend their property??? Of course they do.

Do I have the right to shoot protestors walking down my street because they're carry rocks and looting??? Probably. If they attack me??? Yep.

Do the police have the right to start shooting those same people??? Maybe. In an explosive race fueled demonstration that STARTED because a cop kept a knee on an unarmed black man for 9 minutes until he died??? Legally??? Could they shoot in these situations??? Probably.

Should they start shooting??? I say that in THIS SITUATION..... In THESE TIMES.... for the police to start shooting is just about the least responsible (and downright ignorant) thing they could do.

I'm not saying they CAN'T. I'm saying they shouldn't, at least not in the current geo political state this country is in. You want a full blown race war??? Hey.....fire away.

And FWIW......the M5 is pure badass.....😁
  #108  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:02 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
The very real potential for deadly results exists ... its juat a matter of degrees and efficiency. Whether you're shot in the head, or have your skull crushed with a brick- dead is dead...

So, what is your realistic solution? Trials and convictions wilm NOT happen. In the interim, billions of dollars in damage is being done, nationwide. How do you stop the violence?
Yeah....but no one can throw a brick 100 yds.

My solution is arrests and trials SHOULD happen.

I'm out for the night man.....phone is on 3%.

I always enjoy a good debate. Thanks.
  #109  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:03 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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Shooting should be the LAST resort for a defender.

Whether it's you, in defense of your life, or in the police department's defense of a supermarket.
  #110  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:09 PM
Dddrees Dddrees is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
The very real potential for deadly results exists ... its juat a matter of degrees and efficiency. Whether you're shot in the head, or have your skull crushed with a brick- dead is dead...

So, what is your realistic solution? Trials and convictions wilm NOT happen. In the interim, billions of dollars in damage is being done, nationwide. How do you stop the violence?
Work on de-escalation of the situation. One of the main problems is there is just to much violence to police everything. They are simply overwhelmed and out numbered.

For one, charge those cops that stood by and did nothing.

For another communicate with a few chosen black leaders and work to address their concerns and support.

Next start working on gaining the support of the communities you police.

Finally show them that your actively working towards making the changes you have agreed to make. Not charging bad apple cops in the same timely fashion that you charge other criminals just sends the wrong message.
  #111  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:12 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Shooting should be the LAST resort for a defender.

Whether it's you, in defense of your life, or in the police department's defense of a supermarket.
Same question: what ia your realistic solution? Trials and convictions are NOT an acceptable answer, since that will not occur. To suggest otherwise is a pipe dream....
So how does society control domestic terrorism?
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  #112  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:23 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Originally Posted by Dddrees View Post
Work on de-escalation of the situation. One of the main problems is there is just to much violence to police everything. They are simply overwhelmed and out numbered.

How? Be specific. How do you de escalatea mob?

For one, charge those cops that stood by and did nothing.

Ok, charge them with what? Whar specific law did their lack of action violate?

For another communicate with a few chosen black leaders and work to address their concerns and support.

Wbo, again, specificallyz by name. Who are these "leades" that can effectivly influence terrorism at a national level?

Next start working on gaining the support of the communities you police.

Again, how? Be specific. These communities have a 70 year history
of conflict with LE. How do you change that, over night?


Finally show them that your actively working towards making the changes you have agreed to make. Not charging bad apple cops in the same timely fashion that you charge other criminals just sends the wrong message.
The bad apple cop WAS charged, almost immediately. The body cam footage was released, immediately. Everything one could ask for has been done- long before the riots started.
Your "plan" isn't... its a bunch of abstract talking points, but nothing of substance. Nor will it stop the violence TONIGHT, right now.
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I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
  #113  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:35 PM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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Originally Posted by STORM2 View Post
My conversation addressed arson specifically. The ignition spark of arson is the exact second the rules change. That should be the line of demarcation which switches from crime to terror. Fire is a deadly weapon that can bring down very tall buildings and spread a hundred miles. Ask the folks in NY about 911 or the wildfire victims in CA.
St Johns Church across from the White House, a historic landmark for 200 years, is burning right now. Its part of the countries history. That should be reason enough to clear the streets by any means necessary.
  #114  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:51 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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St Johns Church across from the White House, a historic landmark for 200 years, is burning right now. Its part of the countries history. That should be reason enough to clear the streets by any means necessary.
Faux News.

The restroom across the street from it is on fire. St John's is not on fire.
  #115  
Old 05-31-2020, 10:51 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Shooting should be the LAST resort for a defender.

Whether it's you, in defense of your life, or in the police department's defense of a supermarket.
Same question: what ia your realistic solution? Trials and convictions are NOT an acceptable answer, since that will not occur. To suggest otherwise is a pipe dream....
So how does society control domestic terrorism?
Mass forced surveillance via peoples phones rolled in as a "common sense measure" to stop this from happening by leveraging mass data processing to auto mark people for arrests and all the wonderful overreach that would provide is the first thing that comes to mind.

For safety of course
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  #116  
Old 05-31-2020, 10:54 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Okay......so what I'm hearing is I can effectively come to your place and throw bricks to break your windows, kick your door in, take whatever I want, beat you down if you try and stop me and then toss a few gallons of gas and a match on my way out and NONE of that warrants any sort of retaliation?

Where do you live since I've always wanted an M5

EDIT: for clarity I'm not serious in any way about attacking you, just using the example of duck action to make a point.
Yep....I get it. Does anyone have the right to defend their property??? Of course they do.

Do I have the right to shoot protestors walking down my street because they're carry rocks and looting??? Probably. If they attack me??? Yep.

Do the police have the right to start shooting those same people??? Maybe. In an explosive race fueled demonstration that STARTED because a cop kept a knee on an unarmed black man for 9 minutes until he died??? Legally??? Could they shoot in these situations??? Probably.

Should they start shooting??? I say that in THIS SITUATION..... In THESE TIMES.... for the police to start shooting is just about the least responsible (and downright ignorant) thing they could do.

I'm not saying they CAN'T. I'm saying they shouldn't, at least not in the current geo political state this country is in. You want a full blown race war??? Hey.....fire away.

And FWIW......the M5 is pure badass.....😁
Probably not the best idea no but if these actions are allowed to continue we will just keep "progressing" like we have been and it won't matter after a while.

What generation you have again, the S62V8 before the S85V10 correct? Never driven one of those if that's the case lol!
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  #117  
Old 05-31-2020, 11:01 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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A few more Crows in the sky around here lately.

And the 17 year locusts are coming out in full force as expected. Aside from that we are hunkering down waiting for more ammo for the 40-70 S.S. Highwall. We are hoping to survive until the government comes to rescue us.
  #118  
Old 05-31-2020, 11:04 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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A good friend of mine in St Lewis there on an internship just told me that a FedEx truck was held up for looting near his air bnb and the "protestors" pulled a gun on the driver and he reacted by running them over. Choppers are now airborne and there are firebomb attempts going on down the road at the police station
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  #119  
Old 05-31-2020, 11:07 PM
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AZ Husker AZ Husker is offline
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Arizona was put under curfew at 8:00 tonight. Can't believe all the rioting out here in Arizona! The National Guard is called out.
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  #120  
Old 05-31-2020, 11:28 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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Don't get suckered by the type of crap somebody forwarded to me tonight.

It was an alleged BLM / Antifa "call to arms" type message instructing their followers to go raid White Neighborhoods.

But dig this: It was signed: Black Lives Mater

Mater? Isn't that the cartoon tow truck?

C'mon, that was clearly some fool on the Right trying to fear-bait conservatives.

What a load.
  #121  
Old 05-31-2020, 11:51 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Dunno Magman!

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Don't get suckered by the type of crap somebody forwarded to me tonight.

It was an alleged BLM / Antifa "call to arms" type message instructing their followers to go raid White Neighborhoods.

But dig this: It was signed: Black Lives Mater

Mater? Isn't that the cartoon tow truck?

C'mon, that was clearly some fool on the Right trying to fear-bait conservatives.

What a load.
Maybe they were trying to double fake you! Do not fall for it! The word in the street is that they were going to start rounding up all of the gun owners in the San Diego area. Specifically looking for white dudes driving outdated cars. Watch out dude!
  #122  
Old 06-01-2020, 03:01 AM
toofew1911s toofew1911s is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
The bad apple cop WAS charged, almost immediately. The body cam footage was released, immediately. Everything one could ask for has been done- long before the riots started.
Your "plan" isn't... its a bunch of abstract talking points, but nothing of substance. Nor will it stop the violence TONIGHT, right now.
Well, not exactly. At the time the riots started, no one had been charged. This didn't happen until there had already been violence for several days. In fact, I believe the violence was the reason he was charged with 3rd degree murder as quickly as he was. And the authorities didn't release either the body cam footage or the footage they acquired from the local businesses that had the event on film. The released film came from bystanders and a business that turned his security footage from his store over to a reporter before police confiscated it.

Third degree murder and 2nd degree manslaughter charges are a joke for this particular bit of police brutality caught completely on film. Should charge with more, and let jury decide what degree murder is appropriate. Also, the other police officers will most likely eventually be charged as they participated early on in pressing the man to the pavement and were certainly guilty of accessory or assessory after the fact. The protesters are protesting that if this was you or I in same situation we would be charged and arrested same day.
  #123  
Old 06-01-2020, 03:13 AM
toofew1911s toofew1911s is offline
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And everything I've suggested is completely within the law. Shooting someone activley committing an act of terrorism is completely lawful.
And who decides what qualifies as "terrorism" and what doesn't? Police officers? Business owners? Commuters driving through the area?

It does beg a point which I believe needs to be changed. Right now, particularly in Minnesota for the purpose of this discussion, it is illegal to use deadly force to protect your business - from anything! Breaking windows, looting, burning....nope-you can't protect it with lethal force. Unless they happen to threaten your life at the same time and good luck with that one if they are unarmed. I figured if I owned a business I wanted to save, I would have to engage the looters unarmed and then have my wife shoot them when they ended up beating the crap out of me for standing in their way. Bad laws responsible for this. I think a the owner of a business should have the same protections as a home owner if the business is closed and the doors are locked. Breaking in should imply deadly intent just as it does if someone breaks into your home at night - and you can defend with deadly force. Right now, you can't do that with a business. People are forced to walk away and just watch their businesses get trashed or get torched. Just a shame.
  #124  
Old 06-01-2020, 03:28 AM
Rumblur Rumblur is online now
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yes, it's absolutely about weakening Trump's chances of reelection and crippling the country. Put the pieces together... it's like a movie.
  #125  
Old 06-01-2020, 04:33 AM
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Oh my God, seriously?
Yes: https://forums.1911forum.com/showpos...&postcount=110
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