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  #26  
Old 05-10-2020, 09:39 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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I'm allowed three different carry guns on my San Diego license. I have a Sig P238 and a J Frame on it.

I only want to carry one of those two. No need for a third one on there.

The OP is in Los Angeles. Getting a CCW license is impossible without a very compelling and VERIFIABLE reason. Gaming that requirement is not an option. Every single aspect is verified.

So that said, should one carry anyhow? I say no.

However, if an individual is in a truly imminent life-threatening situation (insane ex, or targeted by gangs, etc) and cannot obtain a license, I would understand if he/she did so.

That's a whole lot different than just wanting to carry for general protection.
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  #27  
Old 05-10-2020, 10:09 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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As long as CCW licenses are treated the same way as drivers licenses, where anyone who passes a reasonable set of requirements can get one, I have no problem with them.

But yet... imagine paying the fee for a drivers permit, going to a driving school, taking both the written and driving test and passing both with flying colors, and then having the licensing agent tell you "I'm sorry, but in my opinion you haven't demonstrated sufficient need to have a drivers license, therefore I am not going to issue you one. Have a nice day.".

That is what a "may issue" permit system is like, where only wealthy and/or politically-connected individuals are able to obtain a carry permit. The Supreme Court needs to strike that sort of thing down as unconstitutional since it is purely a class-based system. Sadly however it is just a pipe dream.
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Last edited by dsk; 05-10-2020 at 10:14 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-10-2020, 10:48 PM
RickD427 RickD427 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
Calguns has all the details. The good guy will be treated like a criminal by the system, if not the cops (not all though).

First, the penninsula sheriff won't issue a permit to a peasant anyway. Almost all of the Bay Area sheriffs will not issue them.

One of the best counties for California carry permits is El Dorado County. It's almost "shall issue" and the sheriff allows many guns on the permits. Many counties allow only 3-5 guns on the permit; a few only allow two.
I'm frequently on Calguns (more that 6,600 posts on that forum). It's a great site for folks in California, and for expats like myself.

The same holds true on that forum. Lots of folks relating horror stories about San Francisco, but when pushed for detail, their sources were kinda like "Somebody said that it happened to somebody that they heard about in a bar ...."

No one on Calguns has also been able to cite a specific verifiable example either.

Don't get me wrong, San Francisco is a cesspool, but the LEOs there do understand the law.
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  #29  
Old 05-10-2020, 10:53 PM
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In Missouri, under the state constitution anyone can carry openly or concealed unless they are specifically prohibited from doing so--felony convictions, legally judged mentally unstable, etc.

I took the CCW class but am leery of getting a permit. I live in very-Leftist St. Louis city, and would have to go to City Hall to have them process the paperwork. Supposedly it goes straight to the state capital; but I have zero trust that as they are processing it, they do not make some record of who is applying. In a sense, this would be a de facto list of the law-abiding people who have guns (since the criminals don't apply for CCW permits). This list could well be used in the future for gun confiscation, should the situation in our country go really bad. Not saying I expect it, but I am not inclined to make it easier for them.

I am more and more considering moving to a conservative county a couple of counties away. In that case I would apply for the permit; to show due diligence that I am trying to do the right thing, plus reciprocity with other states. Personally I consider the whole permit thing to be incompatible with the US Constitution, and that only the two categories of unfit-to-carry should be denied this 2A right.
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  #30  
Old 05-12-2020, 01:31 PM
Levian Levian is offline
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With respect to the OP - I've carried with my gun in plain sight without a concealed carry license for a good while. It's legal to open carry here, but it's a pain. You can't have a loaded gun in the vehicle when you're driving, I'm not aware if there's an exception for a holstered openly carried firearm. Pulling the gun from the holster and stowing it in the glovebox with the magazine in the console became a pain real fast.

Fortunately this is also a shall issue state, so I saved up the $50 for the class, and another 50 for the license. No regrets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
As long as CCW licenses are treated the same way as drivers licenses, where anyone who passes a reasonable set of requirements can get one, I have no problem with them.

But yet... imagine paying the fee for a drivers permit, going to a driving school, taking both the written and driving test and passing both with flying colors, and then having the licensing agent tell you "I'm sorry, but in my opinion you haven't demonstrated sufficient need to have a drivers license, therefore I am not going to issue you one. Have a nice day.".

That is what a "may issue" permit system is like, where only wealthy and/or politically-connected individuals are able to obtain a carry permit. The Supreme Court needs to strike that sort of thing down as unconstitutional since it is purely a class-based system. Sadly however it is just a pipe dream.
Same. Shall issue - I'm willing to accept. The class includes a lot of pertinent information to the specific state you're carrying in, it's money well spent. Fun fact - even though the leftwing jackboots reinstated the 1 gun a month law here in Virginia, having your concealed carry permit allows you to be exempt from that limit. So the renewal is worth it as well. It may not be ideal, I'd rather the state just respect our rights and allow Constitutional Carry. But this format is tolerable, if not ideal.

'May Issue' in untenable as far as I'm concerned.
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  #31  
Old 05-12-2020, 02:18 PM
Handforged Handforged is offline
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I'll make a statement and then quantify them for folks that might misinterpret. I think if your state has a CCW permit you should apply and do whatever is needed to get the permit. That is even if your state has legal open and concealed carry without it.
Reasons: All states that have a permit require persons to attend a class on the legality of protecting themselves with a firearm should the need arise. They are exposed to laws and consequences of their actions, even if they are in the right, to using lethal force. Those states also require a shooting test. Persons are required to prove to a group of instructors that they have enough knowledge with their prescribed firearm to hit what they are aiming at to a minimum level. They are required to break it down and clean it, thus learning how to maintain it and keep it functioning correctly. I have taught and supervised these classes in two states.

Now I typed all of that to say this. I am in no way condoning the oppression of legal rights for a person to be able carry should they choose. I do however think that there are entirely too many "dirty harry wannabes" out there that believe carrying a gun is a status symbol. They think that in protecting themselves they will be found innocent of any crime related because they chose to apply deadly force. It is the old adage that if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Too many carry firearms with zero knowledge of how it works, or with even a small amount of training in hitting their described target should the case arrive. Now I am aware that these classes only provide a minimum amount of training but they are meant to be a basis for education as the person moves forward. Not the beginning and end to their training. There are also entirely too many citizens JAILED or worse KILLED by LEO's because they didn't know the legal ramifications of their actions. It kills my soul to read about it and it is all too common.

We can't make the assumption that anyone who owns or carries a firearm is going to be an expert marksman, knowledgeable on the pertaining laws or even competent enough to understand what will happen if they need to use deadly force to defend themselves. The CCW classes at least make people aware, if not force them to learn a little bit and prove they can hit what they are aiming at.

To each their own and this is of course a personal opinion. I live in a state that doesn't require it. I choose the permit for these reasons as I am not a hypocrite but I do understand the other side of the coin. My travel and reciprocity that it has is also a major factor for me.
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  #32  
Old 05-12-2020, 03:25 PM
Starship Enterpris Starship Enterpris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL Perdido View Post
Actually it was Robert Heinlein in his 1948 book Beyond This Horizon. Full quote below...

ďAn armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.Ē
Can't thank you enough. I have been trying to find the source of this quote for YEARS.
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  #33  
Old 05-12-2020, 04:20 PM
xusmico187 xusmico187 is offline
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Key is concealed, willing to face a criminal charge if you had to use it, making legal self defense illegal. A law abiding citizen should not need a ccw but that is how deep the liberal/democratic/communist party has infiltrated the nation. a ccw is a clandestine registration scheme. one more of the evils one must decide on
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2020, 04:40 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Back in the time before and after the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles...

Was living in the mountains of NC at the time, and CCW'd then, too. Got my first license in KY in '99 (I was a more professional person by THAT time) and have maintained a valid one ever since (now LTCF here in PA).

But yeah, in the early '90's, MOST states DIDN'T offer one. I was counting more on forgiveness, than permission...
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  #35  
Old 05-13-2020, 07:09 AM
AirForceShooter AirForceShooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikerret View Post
Since 2008, Iíve been covered under LEOSA as a full time LEO. Kansas doesnít require a permit for open or concealed carry (as long as youíre 21 and not otherwise prohibited, 18 for open carry). Kansas has offered permits since 2006. Until 2015, the permit was required to carry concealed. Open carry has always been legal (Permitless) unless restricted by local ordinance, which very few cities chose to put on the books. When I am no longer employed, I will get a permit as there are places the permit is valid, but the LEOSA isnít, and vice versa. Another change they made, in 2015, was to allow LE and former LE to get a permit without taking the class. The fees to the State and Sheriff still must be paid.

Where is LEOSA not valid.

AFS
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  #36  
Old 05-13-2020, 12:33 PM
RickD427 RickD427 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirForceShooter View Post
Where is LEOSA not valid.

AFS
LEOSA is "valid" throughout the United States and its possessions. The LEOSA, by its own terms does not permit the carrying of a concealed weapon under the following two circumstances where state or local law:

(1)permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property.

(2)prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

Please refer to 18UCS926B.

Additionally please note the semantic difference between LEOSA being "valid" and the LEOSA not covering these two conditions. The difference being the power of a sovereign to make law vs. the choices the sovereign elects to put in the law.
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  #37  
Old 05-13-2020, 02:15 PM
shooter1911 shooter1911 is offline
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I have carried my entire adult life. Living in Texas in the early years we didn't have permits to carry, but many people did. I took a job in Iowa where I had to travel the state, and at that time they had carry permits, but they were not Shall Issue, meaning you needed permission from local law enforcement as per your needs. A few traveling salesmen had been robbed and one was recently killed so they checked out my background in Texas and issued me a carry permit. When I returned to Texas I still carried, and then they finally passed a carry law so I was one of the first to apply. I'm 76 now and carry legally under my LTC (license to carry). I lived a very quiet life, but I never thought it was a good idea to become a victim. Thank goodness in all these years I have never had to use my ccw.
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  #38  
Old 05-13-2020, 03:48 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is offline
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Iíve had one for years actually I have two. When I first got one from SC they did not reciprocate with GA. I got one from AZ so I could be legal when I went to GA now they changed the law and do have reciprocity with GA but I keep my AZ permit renewed anyway.
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  #39  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:04 PM
wuluf wuluf is offline
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I had a permit in Sacramento for 8 years before I moved to Nevada. My understanding of California law was that getting caught carrying a weapon registered to you without a permit was a misdemeanor. A felony if it is not. I occasionally risked it before i got my permit.

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  #40  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:02 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handforged View Post
I'll make a statement and then quantify them for folks that might misinterpret. I think if your state has a CCW permit you should apply and do whatever is needed to get the permit. That is even if your state has legal open and concealed carry without it.
Reasons: All states that have a permit require persons to attend a class on the legality of protecting themselves with a firearm should the need arise. They are exposed to laws and consequences of their actions, even if they are in the right, to using lethal force. Those states also require a shooting test. Persons are required to prove to a group of instructors that they have enough knowledge with their prescribed firearm to hit what they are aiming at to a minimum level. They are required to break it down and clean it, thus learning how to maintain it and keep it functioning correctly. I have taught and supervised these classes in two states.
WA is shall-issue, and there is no requirement to take any sort of class or shooting test. Some might say that's a good thing, but the truth is you can get a carry permit here even if you literally have no idea how to even load your firearm. The natural remedy of course would be to require a training class or at least pass a hunter's safety course to obtain a CWP. Unfortunately what will more likely happen is that some idiot with no training or gun handling skills whatsoever will eventually kill an innocent person, and the anti-gunners here will respond by making CWP's may-issue or else ban civilian CCW entirely.
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  #41  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:03 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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In case anyone here has ever wondered just how stupid CA carry laws can be, I have an amazing one for ya where they quote what is illegal.

Penal Code 25400PC, Subsection 2:

"Carries concealed upon the person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person"

what the ????????????????????? Is that the weirdest & most redundant sentence ever written?

How much weed do these lawmakers smoke?
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  #42  
Old 05-20-2020, 06:02 PM
teddyearp teddyearp is offline
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I live in Arizona.
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  #43  
Old 05-20-2020, 06:34 PM
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AZ Husker AZ Husker is offline
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AZ is nice, no permit required for CCW or open carry. However, the benefits of reciprocity with other states and the ability to bypass the background check when buying, plus legal carry into some facilities serving alcohol will keep me renewing mine.
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  #44  
Old 06-12-2020, 03:34 PM
paladin45 paladin45 is offline
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When I delivered medical supplies to the projects in Chicago I always carried, even though it was illegal. One day I was going around a corner and almost ran into a gangbanger, there was only 2' between us. He reached in his pants for a gun so I put my hand on his arm and drew my revolver. He pulled away and ran, the best kind of ending. What I took away from this (my edc is now a 1911) is to ALWAYS have a round chambered in condition 1. Being that close there is no way in hell to rack the slide.
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  #45  
Old 06-18-2020, 04:32 AM
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Imissedagain Imissedagain is offline
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When my boy turned 21 and got his concealed he asked to see mine.
I gave him a copy of the Constitution and told him I'm well connected, tight with the President, other elected officials and Cops.
He replied that I should get one as many of my older buddies have died.
I was saddened to learn that Washington had passed.

I did get one.
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  #46  
Old 06-18-2020, 06:30 AM
Buzz45 Buzz45 is offline
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I carried without a license a couple of times, but that was 40 years ago. I hope the statue of limitations has expired. In 1995 Texas began issuing concealed handgun licenses. I don't know why I waited until 2013 to get one. Maybe one reason is the Texas Motorist Protection Act which allows the average citizen to carry a loaded and concealed weapon in his or her vehicle.

It is estimated that only about 5% of the adult population in Texas have a license to carry. How many actually carry under that license is probably way less than that. One good thing that Texas did was to lower the cost of the license substantially. IIRC it was $140 in 2013 when I got mine. It's been lowered to $40 for a 5 year license. And senior citizens and retired veterans only pay $25. Of course that doesn't include the cost of the required LTC classes which can range from $60 to $120.

It still feels like you have to jump through too many hoops to get a LTC. Take the class, get finger printed, submit the paperwork, and then wait, hoping you got everything right. That wait can be anywhere from 2 weeks to 8 weeks. One of the best benefits of the LTC here in Texas, is not having to go through a background check every time you purchase a firearm.
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  #47  
Old 06-18-2020, 11:35 AM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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Ya know, I've been loosely involved in a few construction projects in other states & various CA counties.

The building codes I encountered were far more consistent in requirements than the crazily varied laws concerning guns.

Driving too. Not just in other states but in other countries! The consistency of law & requirements is amazing compared to the clusterfoo of gun rules.
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  #48  
Old 06-19-2020, 05:31 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Concealed Weapon Permit in Florida.....

Thanks to the help of Marion Hammer, we have some very realistic laws when it comes to getting a Concealed Weapon Permit:

1) there are no restrictions for any type or model of handgun...….I use different handguns for different reasons, since some conceal better than others.

2) A CCW permit allows the used to carry items for self defense other than firearms, such as knives with a blade length longer than 3", brass knuckles, etc.

3) There are common sense rules for where a concealed weapon is allowed and not allowed. For example, carrying a concealed weapon in a business where the main source of income is the dispensing of alcohol (a bar or lounge) is not legal.....but having a concealed weapon in a restaurant is fine.

It is illegal to have a concealed weapon in a post office......but I know a guy that worked with a precious metals dealer, and would regularly ship via the USPS, very expensive boxes of silver and gold bullion and coins....sometimes taking in 6-8 boxes on a hand truck that was valued over $200,000! He said he always carried a firearm but never divulged this to anyone, including the post office employees. I believe the product was insured through an outside carrier. so most post office people had no idea what the product was. He said he never took this delivery routine for granted, and each time he brought product to a post office, he had an AR-15 in the vehicle loaded with a 30 round mag, and once he got out of his vehicle, he surveyed the area (good situational awareness!) before he started to unload the vehicle with the precious metal cargo..... He said he would rotate going to different post offices! Fortunately for him, he never had an issue, and worked for the precious metal dealer for several years!

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 06-19-2020 at 05:35 AM.
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