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  #1  
Old 01-09-2020, 07:43 PM
markm markm is offline
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Another Critical Duty failure

So I bought a few cases of Critical Duty in 9, 40 and 45 a few years ago. I've tried them in several guns mostly with disappointing results. Wondering what these will be good for I tried a couple of boxes of the 9 in a new 365. Same result, at first I thought it was a magazine problem but when I looked closer they were catching on the bottom of the feed ramp and failing to feed.
To date I think the only gun they worked reliably in is my USP's in 40. I noticed they changed the bullet shape of one case of 40 I have, making it blunter/rounder but both types of this 40 work in my USP's.
I don't know how they can sell that stuff with the luck I've had.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:24 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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I'm not sure what your issue is, but in my experience Critical Duty and Critical Defense are some of the smoothest-feeding JHP ammo I've ever tried. It runs 100% in both of my P365s for example. Also the .380 Critical Defense is my go-to ammo for small pistols like the Ruger LCP and Kahr P380. I can't explain why you're having issues with it, but without being there to see what's going on there's no way I'd be able to.

One thing to mention though, is that in 9mm the 135gr Critical Duty is fine for duty-length defense guns but it won't expand worth a damn out of short-barreled pistols, not even +P. The 115gr Critical Defense is much better for 3.5" barrels.
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:34 PM
Autonomous Autonomous is offline
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dsk makes a valid point about choosing a cartridge designed for or compatible with the lower velocity of a short barrel.
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2020, 12:33 AM
markm markm is offline
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I don't know dsk, it's failed in my Sig's (226/229/239/227) and in various 9 & 45 1911's with ramped barrels. When it functioned it show really well though.
I haven't tried it in my M&Ps or Q5s yet but those aren't for defense, but with the problems I've had so far I wouldn't trust my defense to it.
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:13 AM
gumbee gumbee is offline
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My department tried the Hornady rounds but decided on Federal HST.
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:43 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
I don't know dsk, it's failed in my Sig's (226/229/239/227) and in various 9 & 45 1911's with ramped barrels. When it functioned it show really well though.
I haven't tried it in my M&Ps or Q5s yet but those aren't for defense, but with the problems I've had so far I wouldn't trust my defense to it.
Wow, thatís really strange that you have rotten luck in all of those. They have to be working for a bunch of people or they would make a drastic change. Oh well, HSTís and Saberís for you then! No loss!!
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:04 AM
NRAJIM NRAJIM is offline
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I would give the manufacturer a call and explain the problem you're having and mention the different firearms also, you never know they may help you out. I personally have no experience with this ammo as all I have ever used is Speer GoldDot and it has fed into everything I own without fail.

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  #8  
Old 01-10-2020, 08:38 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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I'm going to suggest the title of your thread is misleading and false.

It's not the Critical Duty ammo that's failing. It's your guns that are failing.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2020, 08:39 AM
flechero flechero is offline
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I would give the manufacturer a call and explain the problem you're having and mention the different firearms also, you never know they may help you out.
I agree..... sounds like he got a few cases made on a monday morning when they were resetting the machinery!

Age may be an issue though.... since they are from a few years back
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:19 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
I'm going to suggest the title of your thread is misleading and false.

It's not the Critical Duty ammo that's failing. It's your guns that are failing.
Yup. I've not had an issue with the stuff, though I've never fired enough to really say it works or not.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:01 AM
KCJeep KCJeep is offline
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I have a few guns with steep feed ramps or other designs that allow the rubber tip to touch enough they will hang up. My Kahr .380 and Kimber Evo exhibit this tendency.

On the other hand it has worked exceedingly well in Glocks and I have a P365XL that feeds it fine too.

It is high quality ammo, I am personally not a fan of minimal expansion but it just shows you should always test carry ammo in your weapon for reliability.

There are so many good options available if Hornady doesn't work well in your gun oh well.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:33 AM
markm markm is offline
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Ok, I looked through my mail, I'd bought these in 2012/2013. I wont say they failed in all of my guns but I will say every time I've made a range trip (4-5 guns) with this ammo I've had a problem. Yesterday with the 365 I shot two boxes (100 rounds) and had 6 of these jambs.
I will say that I've never had this failure with any other ammo, Federal, Ranger or reloads using Winchester, HAP, Zero or Precision Delta bullets and that's probably with a few hundreds of thousands of rounds fired.
Picts: Couple of boxes I haven't opened yet and some bullets, the two in the middle are the change I found in the 40 bullets. Needless to say I haven't bought any more and I don't know what the bullets look like but it's my opinion that it's that straight(ish) ogee that's the problem. Or maybe the rubbery tip slows the feeding down and allows them to catch on the bottom of the feed ramp.
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CriticalDuty.jpg   CriticalDuty_1.jpg  
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  #13  
Old 01-10-2020, 03:00 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
I don't know dsk, it's failed in my Sig's (226/229/239/227) and in various 9 & 45 1911's with ramped barrels. When it functioned it show really well though.
I haven't tried it in my M&Ps or Q5s yet but those aren't for defense, but with the problems I've had so far I wouldn't trust my defense to it.
I had the same issue. I have pistols that would eat just about anything I could feed it, and I got at least one jam with Critical Duty. In some other forums, some have suggested taking a sharp razor and cutting off any of the silicone rubber that protrudes out of the cavity.

I bought it in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. The 9mm jammed in my P938, one of the only ammo type to ever fail in that pistol which is my favorite pocket gun. The .40 S&W worked well in everything including my Kahr PM40 which is a pistol similar to the PM9 on the finicky side.

But... the .45 ACP failed in almost every pistol at least once, including my Dan Wesson ECO... just like you described where just enough of the rubber tip protrudes and slows the feeding enough to jam with a nose dive straight into the ramp.

So my solution to the remaining .45 ACP Critical Duty I bought is to load in my Charter Arms PitBull revolver with it. No feeding issues in a revolver...

I won't buy anymore of the Critical Duty.

It's why I like revolvers chambered in semi-auto rounds. They are good to shoot ammo that fail to feed elsewhere.

Last edited by PolymerMan; 01-10-2020 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 01-10-2020, 03:11 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Gold dot G2 reject surplus ammo is another that has the elastomer fill, nasty stuff and stops some of my guns but the good ones truck though it. I have like 4000 rounds of the stuff lol!
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Old 01-10-2020, 03:13 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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I can't speak for Critical Duty, but Critical Defense rounds work w/o a problem in my BHP 40.
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  #16  
Old 01-11-2020, 09:59 AM
KCJeep KCJeep is offline
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
Or maybe the rubbery tip slows the feeding down and allows them to catch on the bottom of the feed ramp.
The most current 9mm Critical Duty look like the one you have on the far left.

In my guns it is the rubbery tip that is the culprit. If the ramp allows enough contact of the tip it can "grap" and cause a malfunction.

Notice the newest CD has a smaller tip.
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Old 01-11-2020, 11:26 AM
Rock185 Rock185 is offline
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Within my humble experience, IF a semi-auto pistol suffers feedway malfunctions with any particular jacketed bullet shape, the truncated cone profile is more likely than a more rounded profile to be an issue. This, whether factory or reloaded. The rubbery tip of the Hornady ammo may not help the situation. I was surprised Hornady decided on the bullet shape they used rather than a more rounded profile as used by most other manufacturers of duty/SD type ammo. I realize Hornady must have tested this ammo extensively in a variety of pistols before initial production, and it's going to work reliably for the vast majority of their customers. That being said, I can often find some ammo or bullet shape that is incompatible with this or that pistol, even though ammo and pistol are both quality products...ymmv
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:03 PM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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Within my humble experience, IF a semi-auto pistol suffers feedway malfunctions with any particular jacketed bullet shape, the truncated cone profile is more likely than a more rounded profile to be an issue. This, whether factory or reloaded. The rubbery tip of the Hornady ammo may not help the situation. I was surprised Hornady decided on the bullet shape they used rather than a more rounded profile as used by most other manufacturers of duty/SD type ammo. I realize Hornady must have tested this ammo extensively in a variety of pistols before initial production, and it's going to work reliably for the vast majority of their customers. That being said, I can often find some ammo or bullet shape that is incompatible with this or that pistol, even though ammo and pistol are both quality products...ymmv
That merely reinforces the main issue with semi automatic weapons. Its all about bullet shape. Hence the man with a revolver doesn't give a rats bottom about bullet profile.
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Old 01-11-2020, 02:09 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock185 View Post
Within my humble experience, IF a semi-auto pistol suffers feedway malfunctions with any particular jacketed bullet shape, the truncated cone profile is more likely than a more rounded profile to be an issue. This, whether factory or reloaded. The rubbery tip of the Hornady ammo may not help the situation. I was surprised Hornady decided on the bullet shape they used rather than a more rounded profile as used by most other manufacturers of duty/SD type ammo. I realize Hornady must have tested this ammo extensively in a variety of pistols before initial production, and it's going to work reliably for the vast majority of their customers. That being said, I can often find some ammo or bullet shape that is incompatible with this or that pistol, even though ammo and pistol are both quality products...ymmv
That merely reinforces the main issue with semi automatic weapons. Its all about bullet shape. Hence the man with a revolver doesn't give a rats bottom about bullet profile.
Until the rounds unseat and lock the whole gun up, or a primer is slightly too tall and locks the gun up, or anything gets in the way of the dozens of parts and locks the gun up.......

Semi autos are more reliable and more importantly simpler than a revolver and I would argue less ammo sensitive in my experience.
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Old 01-11-2020, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
So I bought a few cases of Critical Duty in 9, 40 and 45 a few years ago. I've tried them in several guns mostly with disappointing results. Wondering what these will be good for I tried a couple of boxes of the 9 in a new 365. Same result, at first I thought it was a magazine problem but when I looked closer they were catching on the bottom of the feed ramp and failing to feed.
To date I think the only gun they worked reliably in is my USP's in 40. I noticed they changed the bullet shape of one case of 40 I have, making it blunter/rounder but both types of this 40 work in my USP's.
I don't know how they can sell that stuff with the luck I've had.

I use the .45 CDuty 220 in my 1911 carry gun. It has never been anything but flawless. That load has worked in every 1911 I've seen or heard about. I would bet that the problem is your gun, and not the ammo. My past experience is that if something is catching on the feed ramp transition it is almost always a mismatch between the body of the receiver and the ramp. Polish the hell out of the transition area, contour it more if needed.
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Old 01-11-2020, 02:50 PM
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Ok, I looked through my mail, I'd bought these in 2012/2013. I wont say they failed in all of my guns but I will say every time I've made a range trip (4-5 guns) with this ammo I've had a problem. Yesterday with the 365 I shot two boxes (100 rounds) and had 6 of these jambs.
I will say that I've never had this failure with any other ammo, Federal, Ranger or reloads using Winchester, HAP, Zero or Precision Delta bullets and that's probably with a few hundreds of thousands of rounds fired.
Picts: Couple of boxes I haven't opened yet and some bullets, the two in the middle are the change I found in the 40 bullets. Needless to say I haven't bought any more and I don't know what the bullets look like but it's my opinion that it's that straight(ish) ogee that's the problem. Or maybe the rubbery tip slows the feeding down and allows them to catch on the bottom of the feed ramp.



If you're dead set against the Critical Duty, try to find some Golden Saber. That has a more traditional ogive shape and has never failed to feed.
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Old 01-11-2020, 04:00 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
Ok, I looked through my mail, I'd bought these in 2012/2013. I wont say they failed in all of my guns but I will say every time I've made a range trip (4-5 guns) with this ammo I've had a problem. Yesterday with the 365 I shot two boxes (100 rounds) and had 6 of these jambs.
I will say that I've never had this failure with any other ammo, Federal, Ranger or reloads using Winchester, HAP, Zero or Precision Delta bullets and that's probably with a few hundreds of thousands of rounds fired.
Picts: Couple of boxes I haven't opened yet and some bullets, the two in the middle are the change I found in the 40 bullets. Needless to say I haven't bought any more and I don't know what the bullets look like but it's my opinion that it's that straight(ish) ogee that's the problem. Or maybe the rubbery tip slows the feeding down and allows them to catch on the bottom of the feed ramp.



If you're dead set against the Critical Duty, try to find some Golden Saber. That has a more traditional ogive shape and has never failed to feed.
This, or even HSTs or XPB bullet have a more "natural" shape.
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Old 01-11-2020, 04:32 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Originally Posted by KCJeep View Post
The most current 9mm Critical Duty look like the one you have on the far left.

In my guns it is the rubbery tip that is the culprit. If the ramp allows enough contact of the tip it can "grap" and cause a malfunction.

Notice the newest CD has a smaller tip.
I agree its' the rubbery tip. But I will add that its not just the tip contacting in the ramp-throat entry into the chamber BUT, that the magazine tube as well.

Semi-auto's are finely tune to cycle based not on one parameter, but on several.

Timing is crucial from the strength of the recoil spring assembly, to the weight of the slide, the charge in the cartridge, to the strength of the magazine spring to push the next cartridge up the tube just in time to get stripped off the stack and into the chamber. Everything has to be perfect. Change any one of those parameters and you could get a cycle failure.

Where I think the failures are occurring with the Critical Duty is that tiny amount of elastomeric rubber tip that protrudes from the cavity. With a stack of cartridges in the magazine tube, you potentially have 6, 7 or more of those rubber tips making contact with the inside of the magazine tube... just enough added resistance to travel of the stack that the magazine spring can't overcome and just enough to delay the push up of the next cartridge ... maybe by a few milliseconds, that the cartridge misses the timing cycle.

That is why some people have found that taking a sharp single edge razor and trimming off any protrusion solves the problem.

Anyhow that is my opinion... qualified or unqualified.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:44 PM
Al Booth Al Booth is online now
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Critical Duty

If I have to hand-modify the ammo to make it work (slicing off the rubber tip), then I am not interested in paying that kind of money for ammo that does not work.
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Old 01-12-2020, 08:46 AM
low drag low drag is offline
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Hummmm......

Tagging this to follow along.

I've tried Critical Duty in 10mm from a Glock 20 & 29. Granted a Glock is a hog and will eat anything. Also a Kimber 10mm TLE Custom II and Wilson XTac.

I've tried 9mm Critical Duty from a S&W M&P 2.0 Compact.

I've run Critical Defense through S&W Shields in 9mm & 45 as well as a Sig P365.

I can't recall if I tried .45 Critical Duty through a 1911 and don't feel like running upstairs to see if I have it. I typically run Speer Gold Dots through a full size .45.

All the Critical Duty and Critical Defense rounds feed/function like a champ.
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