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  #26  
Old 01-12-2020, 11:02 AM
Rick in Oregon Rick in Oregon is offline
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My experience with Critical Defense has been all good. Don't use Critical Duty. I'm running it in all my 3-inchers, and to date (3 years) no issues at all in six guns I'm running it in.

The water jug expansion test with my Sig P938 CD produced expansion like as seen in magazine adverts:



Shot from 12' into water-filled plastic milk jugs, six lined up back-to-back. The expanded 9mm rounds mic'd up to .620". Not bad for a "dinky" little 9mm.



All the fired slugs came to rest in jug #5. Interesting test with the short barreled pistols that shows they really can be effective......with the right ammo.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2020, 03:24 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
That merely reinforces the main issue with semi automatic weapons. Its all about bullet shape. Hence the man with a revolver doesn't give a rats bottom about bullet profile.
Five or six for sure!!!
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:05 PM
Rock185 Rock185 is offline
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Have to say I have experienced and/or witnessed the types of revolver issues Striker indicated. I can recall assisting with academy firearms training, with the class all using K-frame S&W revolvers, with perhaps the occasional Colt on the firing line. There were 3 or 4 instructors present. At one point, we all exchanged the revolvers we were carrying with one of the recruits whose revolver had tied up due to some of the issues Striker mentions.....
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolymerMan View Post
I agree its' the rubbery tip. But I will add that its not just the tip contacting in the ramp-throat entry into the chamber BUT, that the magazine tube as well.

Semi-auto's are finely tune to cycle based not on one parameter, but on several.

Timing is crucial from the strength of the recoil spring assembly, to the weight of the slide, the charge in the cartridge, to the strength of the magazine spring to push the next cartridge up the tube just in time to get stripped off the stack and into the chamber. Everything has to be perfect. Change any one of those parameters and you could get a cycle failure.

Where I think the failures are occurring with the Critical Duty is that tiny amount of elastomeric rubber tip that protrudes from the cavity. With a stack of cartridges in the magazine tube, you potentially have 6, 7 or more of those rubber tips making contact with the inside of the magazine tube... just enough added resistance to travel of the stack that the magazine spring can't overcome and just enough to delay the push up of the next cartridge ... maybe by a few milliseconds, that the cartridge misses the timing cycle.

That is why some people have found that taking a sharp single edge razor and trimming off any protrusion solves the problem.

Anyhow that is my opinion... qualified or unqualified.

Actually, it is more likely that the ramp area needs polishing, OR the recoil spring needs a boost, maybe both.


A lot of people run their 1911s with 'soft' springs. Standard springs are 16 lb. If you have problems with Critical Duty or other ammo with rubber tips, replace the standard spring with an 18 lb or even a 20. That will increase the speed the bullet meets the ramp with. You may also need to increase mag spring weight as well to make sure the follower is pushing the next round up fast enough for the increased slide velocity. My Ruger SR1911 came from the factory with heavier springs in both those two areas, and feeding of all types of bullet profile is flawless. It also has a very polished ramp (came that way, I haven't touched it).



I've handled other 1911s that feel 'soft' compared to the Ruger and some of them had trouble with the CDuty rubber tips, but they also had trouble with HST HP rounds as well. Since it is getting harder to find Golden Saber 230 gr. Bonded that feeds well in everything, seems replacing a couple springs is a cheap fix, and should be at least tried.
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:01 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock185 View Post
Have to say I have experienced and/or witnessed the types of revolver issues Striker indicated. I can recall assisting with academy firearms training, with the class all using K-frame S&W revolvers, with perhaps the occasional Colt on the firing line. There were 3 or 4 instructors present. At one point, we all exchanged the revolvers we were carrying with one of the recruits whose revolver had tied up due to some of the issues Striker mentions.....
I'm by no means a revolver guy (I have less than 10k rounds across all my revolvers, very little use on "real" ones too) but I am the best user of them in my local leagues using my 686-7 8 inch full lug and "speed" loader and none of my wheel guns have held up even close to what my semi autos sometimes see in a single week round count and intensity wise. Some small parts have broken, I've blown two up, and ammo has had issue that locked the guns up.

I've since leaned that every 1000 or 500 if done in less than an hour of shooting they need to be serviced and checked for timing to avoid incidents. Also can't use bottom of the barrel reman ammo like I can in my semi autos since the bullets literally can be pulled from recoil.
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  #31  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:03 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolymerMan View Post
I agree its' the rubbery tip. But I will add that its not just the tip contacting in the ramp-throat entry into the chamber BUT, that the magazine tube as well.

Semi-auto's are finely tune to cycle based not on one parameter, but on several.

Timing is crucial from the strength of the recoil spring assembly, to the weight of the slide, the charge in the cartridge, to the strength of the magazine spring to push the next cartridge up the tube just in time to get stripped off the stack and into the chamber. Everything has to be perfect. Change any one of those parameters and you could get a cycle failure.

Where I think the failures are occurring with the Critical Duty is that tiny amount of elastomeric rubber tip that protrudes from the cavity. With a stack of cartridges in the magazine tube, you potentially have 6, 7 or more of those rubber tips making contact with the inside of the magazine tube... just enough added resistance to travel of the stack that the magazine spring can't overcome and just enough to delay the push up of the next cartridge ... maybe by a few milliseconds, that the cartridge misses the timing cycle.

That is why some people have found that taking a sharp single edge razor and trimming off any protrusion solves the problem.

Anyhow that is my opinion... qualified or unqualified. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Actually, it is more likely that the ramp area needs polishing, OR the recoil spring needs a boost, maybe both.


A lot of people run their 1911s with 'soft' springs. Standard springs are 16 lb. If you have problems with Critical Duty or other ammo with rubber tips, replace the standard spring with an 18 lb or even a 20. That will increase the speed the bullet meets the ramp with. You may also need to increase mag spring weight as well to make sure the follower is pushing the next round up fast enough for the increased slide velocity. My Ruger SR1911 came from the factory with heavier springs in both those two areas, and feeding of all types of bullet profile is flawless. It also has a very polished ramp (came that way, I haven't touched it).



I've handled other 1911s that feel 'soft' compared to the Ruger and some of them had trouble with the CDuty rubber tips, but they also had trouble with HST HP rounds as well. Since it is getting harder to find Golden Saber 230 gr. Bonded that feeds well in everything, seems replacing a couple springs is a cheap fix, and should be at least tried.
As a 365 owner the gun is running in the ragged edge of spring forces in all areas, anything that throws it off stops the gun. Margin is very small unlike a .45 weapon or 9mm Glocks/CZs
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  #32  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:26 PM
guns90 guns90 is offline
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I purchased a Dan Wesson ECP .45 in September and purchased various HJP to test in it. The very first time I tried to use Critical Duty after break-in, it jammed on the feed ramp. I loaded up a mag with it for my Kimber, and the same thing happened. I could easily see that the Red filler in the tip was simply smashed up against the ramp in both guns. I figured the ammo hand been exposed to something that made the filler expand. I doubt that I will buy any more.
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2020, 07:26 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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If you are having problems with the filled JHP ammo, try some that uses the Speer Gold Dot bullets. The factory ammo and bullets for hand loading are also available in a SB (Short Barrel) configuration for compact pistols and revolvers.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/ammunition/gold-dot

The Gold Dot bullets work very well. I do not have any pictures but the .45 Gold Dot SB bullet that I recovered from the second 2.5 gallon water jug (about the 4th jug in line if it were gallon jugs and since very few humans have that girth penetrating to jug 5 in over penetration any way you cut it) expanded to about .73" from an officer sized 1911 backed by 7.8 gr of AA#5. It took some work to find a COL the frequently recalcitrant Kimber CDP would be reliable with but I like it.

While that Kimber CDP doesn't work very well with any factory ammo outside of FMJ that I've tried, the handloads with the GD's work well.

XTP's work very well in my Gov't Size 1911's though, you might give them a try...
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:39 PM
guns90 guns90 is offline
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This was the first time I tried Hornady. I've used Federal Hydra-Shok since they came out. Just went thru a box of their HST in my Kimber to test it out and it worked great. Same with Speer Gold Dot. Ammo was always 230 gr. Never had one problem. The Hornady is the only ammo my .45's didn't like.

Capt. Methane, My Kimber is an Ultra CDP II and I'm happy that it eats everything (except the one box of Hornady I tried).

Like I said before, the red filler was the problem on my box of ammo. It extended beyond the bullet on every round in the box, causing it to be the first thing touching the ramp, sort of mushrooming (barely) over the end of the bullet and 'sticking' to the ramp. Why, I don't know, but I'm sure something caused that. Several mags of Federal and Speer went thru both guns after this happened, so I'm sure it's not the ramp. I gave it my son-in-law and he reports it didn't work in his Colt , so he gave to another LEO to try. From where I stand, this could happen to another box, so I don't trust it.
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  #35  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:23 AM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is online now
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Worked like a champ in Gen 5 Glock 19 and 48. My experience doesn't invalidate yours. Just one happy customer. The most accurate self defense round I’ve tested. The only problem is in the 48 it’s a little left of center so I need to drift the sights. It was spot on with the 19. Just luck of the draw.

5 shots unsupported 25 yards standing Glock 48 Gen 5
I cut out the group and moved it to another target. Painful lesson in not bringing a sight adjustment tool to the range.





5 shots unsupported 25 yards standing Glock 19 Gen 5
The X-Ring inside the 10 ring is about 1.77”

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  #36  
Old 01-15-2020, 02:43 AM
Buccaneer12 Buccaneer12 is offline
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I hate to say it, but my guess is that it is your p365. They have been notorious for feeding issues, and I trust Hornady's QC way more than I trust Sig Sauer's. Ive used Both hornady and Sig Sauer for going on a couple decades. I've never once had an issue with literally a couple hundred thousand rounds of Hornady ammunition, of any caliber, from any platform. I cant say the same for Sig.

I certainly don't consider my sample size of one exhaustive, but I'd suggest sending the p365 back to sig for correction. There is no reason it shouldn't smoothly feed that Hornady round.


Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
So I bought a few cases of Critical Duty in 9, 40 and 45 a few years ago. I've tried them in several guns mostly with disappointing results. Wondering what these will be good for I tried a couple of boxes of the 9 in a new 365. Same result, at first I thought it was a magazine problem but when I looked closer they were catching on the bottom of the feed ramp and failing to feed.
To date I think the only gun they worked reliably in is my USP's in 40. I noticed they changed the bullet shape of one case of 40 I have, making it blunter/rounder but both types of this 40 work in my USP's.
I don't know how they can sell that stuff with the luck I've had.
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2020, 06:14 AM
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Have to agree with Buccaneer. Seems like the only people who are having problems with the Hornady Critical Duty round are those using the short barrel guns and the Euro style guns. The FBI certainly wouldn't have picked the 135 gr. Critical Duty 9mm for its issue duty round if there was any kind of problem with it.


The report that it "sticks on the feed ramp" bothers me no end also. Those rubber tips get a thin layer of oxide from exposure to the air over time which makes them less likely to stick if there is sufficient slide speed. I know that from observing it on my .45 CD rounds. Makes me wonder just how they are chambering that first round. Are they pulling the slide back manually to the farthest extent and then releasing it, or just dropping it from a slide stop release? That makes a difference on my full size 1911, so I assume it would also on the shorter barrel guns. In addition to that, the feed geometry on the shorter barrel guns is different than on full size guns, and that is one of the reasons that many of them are so finicky on feeding. I remember that even the Commander size guns had a tendency to be somewhat balky back when they were still fairly new to the scene, and one reason why I've never used anything but a full size 1911.
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:17 AM
guns90 guns90 is offline
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If you are not familiar with the philosophical term 'Occum's Razor' it says:

Occam’s Razor (or Ockham’s Razor, also known as the Principle of Parsimony) is the idea that more straightforward explanations are, in general, better. That is, if you have two possible theories that fit all available evidence, the best theory is the one with fewer moving parts. To be put another way, the simplest answer is usually correct.

Three individuals, who don't know each other, have reported in this thread alone that they have experienced the same feeding malfunction of a specific fairly uniquely designed ammunition in multiple handguns of multiple calibers from multiple manufacturers, that eat every other ammunition they've been fed, and they are being told that they all have bad guns, or at least, need to purchase new parts for their new guns, or relearn how to properly chamber the guns so that they can use this ammo. Really, guys?

I think that it's more likely that the three of us simply purchased ammo, that for some unknown reason, either was or became defective. Because the OP had the same outcome on multiple calibers of the same ammo, it's even more likely that the ammo was somehow contaminated. I'm not a physicist or chemist, but it really is evident to me that something interacted with the red filler and caused it to expand. I'm not a gunsmith either, but I'm not gun stupid. Over twenty year Marine and over forty years owning guns. The box of Hornady Critical Duty that I purchased was bad. Period. It's not the first box of bad ammo I've ever purchased, and I'm sure it won't be the last. It will not be another box of Hornady until they make some changes.

Last edited by guns90; 01-15-2020 at 02:17 PM.
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:05 AM
KCJeep KCJeep is offline
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I don't think the ammo itself is "defective" as in made out of spec. In my mind it is a design flaw, as every CD round I have ever seen, which is a lot, the rubber tip extends a millimeter or two beyond the tip of the bullet. Which in some guns allows the rubber to grab enough of the ramp or magazine to hang up.

It has to be the rubber tip as CD is shaped very similar to XTPs which run fabulous in everything.

Multiple reports of the exact same syndrome on the Kimber forum with Micro 9s and Evos that otherwise run reliably.

Why Hornady doesn't shorten the tip a smidge is beyond me but they don't.

Again, I am not dogging the ammo it is fantastic quality and I carry and use it in other guns that don't care, such as Glocks. It's even been my duty ammo the last 3 years and I am not the least concerned.
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  #40  
Old 01-15-2020, 01:27 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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I have been considering the purchase of some of the CD ammo.

For my M-1 carbines. This being about the only improved performance round commercially available for the M-1s. Perhaps I will, just to see what happens with it.
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  #41  
Old 01-15-2020, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick in Oregon View Post
My experience with Critical Defense has been all good. Don't use Critical Duty. I'm running it in all my 3-inchers, and to date (3 years) no issues at all in six guns I'm running it in.

The water jug expansion test with my Sig P938 CD produced expansion like as seen in magazine adverts:



Shot from 12' into water-filled plastic milk jugs, six lined up back-to-back. The expanded 9mm rounds mic'd up to .620". Not bad for a "dinky" little 9mm.



All the fired slugs came to rest in jug #5. Interesting test with the short barreled pistols that shows they really can be effective......with the right ammo.



Should be noted here that the bullet in the Critical Defense round is NOT the same as the one used in Critical Duty loads. A lot of people get them confused.
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  #42  
Old 01-15-2020, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by guns90 View Post
If you are not familiar with the philosophical term 'Occum's Razor' it says:

Occam’s Razor (or Ockham’s Razor, also known as the Principle of Parsimony) is the idea that more straightforward explanations are, in general, better. That is, if you have two possible theories that fit all available evidence, the best theory is the one with fewer moving parts. To be put another way, the simplest answer is usually correct.

Three individuals, who don't know each other, have reported in this thread alone that they have experienced the same feeding malfunction of a specific fairly uniquely designed ammunition in multiple handguns of multiple calibers from multiple manufacturers, that eat every other ammunition they've been fed, and they are being told that they all have bad guns, or at least, need to purchase new parts for their new guns, or relearn how to properly chamber the guns so that they can use this ammo. Really, guys?

I think that it's more likely that the three of us simply purchased ammo, that for some unknown reason, either was or became defective. Because the OP had the same outcome on multiple calibers of the same ammo, it's even more likely that the ammo was somehow contaminated. I'm not a physicist or chemist, but it really is evident to me that something interacted with the red filler and caused it to expand. I'm not a gunsmith either, but I'm not gun stupid. Over twenty year Marine and over forty years owning guns. The box of Hornady Critical Duty that I purchased was bad. Period. It's not the first box of bad ammo I've ever purchased, and I'm sure it won't be the last. It will not be another box of Hornady until they make some changes.



It is also a fact that people tend to blame everything else but themselves or something they've spent good money on. The short barreled compact autos fall into this category. As a class, they are extremely finicky compared to their larger full size cousins. Ammo that works fine in a full size 1911 often malfunctions in the compact versions of those guns. If that wasn't the case, then the ammo makers wouldn't have bothered to spend the time and money on developing ammo specifically for the short barrel compact guns. That all should be kept in mind when evaluating such complaints.
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  #43  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:29 PM
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Jesus, Rifter. Enjoy your Critical Duty. I hope you live a long and happy life.
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  #44  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:06 PM
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It is also a fact that people tend to blame everything else but themselves or something they've spent good money on. The short barreled compact autos fall into this category. As a class, they are extremely finicky compared to their larger full size cousins. Ammo that works fine in a full size 1911 often malfunctions in the compact versions of those guns. If that wasn't the case, then the ammo makers wouldn't have bothered to spend the time and money on developing ammo specifically for the short barrel compact guns. That all should be kept in mind when evaluating such complaints.
Do NOT forget that semi autos leave the factory with the expectation that they will only run HARDBALL FMJ or lead round nose without issue.
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:47 AM
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Jesus, Rifter. Enjoy your Critical Duty. I hope you live a long and happy life.



I can see you rolling your eyes right now. Can you deny that short barrel guns as a group tend to have feeding issues with anything but ball ammo? I can't remember the last review I read of one of those types that didn't have some mention of that issue. Everybody is so invested in the idea that you have to have a hollow point for a self defense round that if it doesn't work there's something wrong with the ammo. A design flaw, or chemical contamination, whatever.


When you start shortening the barrel, the angles involved in feeding a particular caliber change compared to the same ammo in a full size gun. Even full size guns had issues feeding anything other than ball ammo for a long time before gunsmiths and makers figured out how to modify them to work right. Changing the geometry by shortening the barrel only aggravates that problem. I don't think they've succeeded yet.


Millions of rounds of Critical Duty have been sold and fired in all kinds of guns, and for the most part, that was successful. The FBI picked it for their duty ammo. They have to get it right or lives could be on the line, so they invest large amounts of time and money in making the decision to use any particular ammo.



I don't even particularly like hollow point ammo, so when I use it I'm pretty damn picky about having it work. The only two I will use are Golden Saber Bonded or Critical Duty. If somebody still made a premium grade flat point like the Hornady FMJ-FP, or a premium grade soft point, that's what I'd run, but they don't. So, because of that I don't have a dog in this fight and can evaluate how the stuff works in all kinds of gun without getting emotional about it. In just about every case I've seen, when short guns have a problem with some ammo (any ammo) it is more than likely the gun that is the issue, not the ammo because there are dozens of other model guns that shoot the same ammo with no problem. Ammo that doesn't function reliably in lots of different guns doesn't last long in the market place.


The bottom line here is that I wasn't picking on you or anybody else, just stating an observation and a conclusion I've come to over a period of time about short barrel guns, and the reasons I hear for them not working with this or that type of ammunition.
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  #46  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
Do NOT forget that semi autos leave the factory with the expectation that they will only run HARDBALL FMJ or lead round nose without issue.

Good point. Seems like a lot of people don't know that. There's even a lot of people who expect the inexpensive mil-spec GI 1911 pistols to work with any ammo. A true mil-spec is only required to shoot ball, but they sure complain when it won't shoot this or that hollow point.
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  #47  
Old 01-16-2020, 01:45 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
Do NOT forget that semi autos leave the factory with the expectation that they will only run HARDBALL FMJ or lead round nose without issue.
Good thing I bought one that is made to use JHP specifically.....
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  #48  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
It is also a fact that people tend to blame everything else but themselves or something they've spent good money on. The short barreled compact autos fall into this category. As a class, they are extremely finicky compared to their larger full size cousins. Ammo that works fine in a full size 1911 often malfunctions in the compact versions of those guns. If that wasn't the case, then the ammo makers wouldn't have bothered to spend the time and money on developing ammo specifically for the short barrel compact guns. That all should be kept in mind when evaluating such complaints.
My experience is critical defense does hang up on some handguns that have the barrel ramp relatively high and sharp. Example Walter PPS .
But not on others that have the ramp lower into the gun Glock 19 and 26.
The Walther needed the magazine disassembled remove some flashings and cleaned. Then the timing was good. If it had a barrel design as the Glock it would have worked even with new magazines that had flashings on the follower.

My experience with 1911 .45 ACP 185 gr Critical Defense that ammo works in my Springfield Armory stainless loaded.

.380s
Critical defense works fine in my Ruger LCP original gen and SIG P238.

Last edited by OttoLoader; 01-16-2020 at 12:37 PM.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:07 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is offline
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Crit defense and duty work in all my guns that I've shot them in, the .380 and 9x18 loading expand nicely and actually penetrate to 13ish

The .45+P and 9mm crit duty works nicely and my HKs are loaded with it as are my .45 SIGs but honestly it's only because I didn't feel like allocating HSTs to them and just wasting the ammo for no reason. I'm very very unlikely to grab any of those guns but I make it a point at every single mag and pistol I own is loaded with a good JHP when in storage. Guns in active use all have HSTs or Barnes solid copper matched to the gun expect for my .380s that have crit defense
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  #50  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:30 PM
guns90 guns90 is offline
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Rifter, first, let me apologize for the way I signed off last night. That was a little rude of me. My frustration last night was with the way I believed you (and others) were arguing apples to my oranges. I thought your first line in post # 42 was kind of arrogant and a little condescending. Sorry. Everyone last night seemed to be telling me that I was wrong about the ammo or did not understand the differences in 1911 sizes. I assure that I do, but it was like none of you could see the tree I was talking about for the forest.

You're knowledge of 1911's is accepted and respected. I did know all of that before I acquired my first compact. I agree with everything you said about the operation of short barreled 1911's compared to Governments; however, you are wrong in your understanding of ammunition designed for short barreled guns. It's design has nothing to do with the way it functions in the operation with the gun. SB ammo is designed for deeper penetration because of the lower velocity that occurs in shorter barrels. This is accomplished with the performance of the bullet by:

1. Lesser flaring (diameter) of the bullet with target contact,
2. Slower flaring of the bullet with target contact, or
3. A combination of both

The length, width, and weight of SB rounds are identical to the standard version of the same rounds. Only the way the bullet flares has changed. The next time you have the chance, compare them side by side.

I agree that most 1911's, regardless of size, are only designed to meet FMJ standards, and some 1911's just cannot handle self defense (SD) ammo because of the more blunt/less rounded ends of some bullets, but I also know that the higher end guns are designed and built with that in mind. I have no idea of where to get the statistical data to support the rest of this sentence, but I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that the vast majority of guns that have trouble with SD ammo have an MSRP under $500.

Last night I was informing everyone of a box of ammo that I purchased was bad. Two LEO's have confirmed that (now). The last gun it was tried in and failed was a Springfield Armory Range Safety Officer (full size). It was the first time I ever bought Hornady. I believe every manufacturer has problems from time to time, whether it be from human error, machine calibration, or whatever. If you purchased your first product from a manufacturer and it wouldn't work in multiple high end guns, that ate everything else, would you buy it again? I'll stick with what I know works for me. I really don't like (especially now) that a softer substance protrudes past the end of the metal bullet of Hornady cartridges.

And last, may I respectfully suggest that you think about not referencing the FBI as a source. A very large portion of this country now is learning that the upper echelon of the FBI spearheaded the conspiracy to overthrow our government by unseating a duly elected President, and not one member of the lower echelon came forward to tell us about it. I personally don't believe a damned thing the FBI says now.
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