1911Forum banner

Mentally ill son shot by Chicago cops didn't have a gun, he had a bat

6K views 156 replies 39 participants last post by  400cor-bon 
#1 ·
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ch...o-call-fatally-shoots-2/ar-BBnWDVv?li=BBnb7Kz

Cooksey, who was not present at the time of the shooting, told the Chicago Tribune that her son had been dealing with mental issues, but said police didn't have to react the way they did.

"We're thinking the police are going to service us, take him to the hospital. They took his life," she said.

She said her son "didn't have a gun. He had a bat."
So even when they're acting like nuts and swinging a baseball bat at you you're supposed to walk up and hug them. Got it.
 
#2 ·
#3 ·
Right. Sure. Sorry. I won't believe a cops word, not going to happen. Especially a Chicago cop
 
#102 ·
Wow. I am appalled of the opinion of some liberal thinking anti-law enforcement types that think we're suppose to just endure a deadly blow, as long as it's not from a gun!

Anyone that's made it through their first couple of years as a policeman knows that a demented person with any type of weapon poses a very serious threat. Mr. "Monkey Dust" You're first statement pretty much speaks to your opinion and it's value... You opened with "Right. Sure. Sorry. I won't believe a cops word, not going to happen. Especially a Chicago cop..." So you clearly state that in your opinion no law enforcement officer warrants believing. I've known hundreds of police officers over the years and they are some of the most impeccably honest folks on the planet. (When we found one that wasn't, they were quickly dismissed). When the mentally deranged man's mother says that "he didn't have a gun, he had a bat" I bet even you can believe that!

I'm guessing you've never rolled up on a demented person call and observed their deranged behavior so you might not even be a good person to speak on the matter. I have, on countless occasions, over 34 years of policing and I assure you the only thing about it you can depend on is - that there's nothing about them that you can depend on. They are often absolutely out of their minds, picking up and throwing two-hundred-plus pound officers like they were weightless, throwing pieces of furniture, advancing with anything they can find to strike you, biting your limbs, attempting to take your pistol from you, running you over with a car, and generally just trying to kill you. Many have a super-human strength like a drug user on hallucinogenic drugs! They will hurt you, their loved ones, or anyone else tasked with gaining control of them.

The reason these parent's, (the dad in this case), called the police to begin with is that they were scared to death of their ball-bat wielding son (A GROWN MAN) and wanted someone else to deal with him. The police don't sign on to get killed, whether it's by a mentally stable person or a deranged demented one. They would have MUCH PREFERRED having been able to effectively disarm him and take him to a mental hospital, I assure you.

As for the innocent neighbor lady that was killed, that is a tragedy in every sense of the word. Excepting this lady's loved ones, God Bless them, there isn't anyone that will feel any more grief, guilt, sadness and despair about shooting an innocent bystander, than this police officer. There's a good chance that this officer will NEVER get over this and will not be able to return to policing in any form, at their own decision. This officer will deal with this the rest of their life. What needs to be realized it that this was an accident, a horrible and deadly accident, that claimed a life of an innocent person. This is one of the risks police officers take when they choose this profession. Truthfully, this poor woman shouldn't have even been there in such a volatile situation, unfortunately she was. I can only assume that she was there trying to lend assistance and offer help.

I will NOT however sit around and question these officers actions, having very little actual, factual information of how it went down and exactly what happened. I've policed in some crappy, economically depressed, and racially diverse areas; Chicago - I wouldn't even consider. May God Bless each of the people involved here and give them His' peace.
 
#5 ·
The kid was having mental problems so I can understand the scenario where he could get shot swinging a bat an a Police Officer.

However, "Bettie" the neighbor still needs explained?

How did she wind up shot and killed by the CPD?
 
#8 ·
The disregard for; laws, decency, and law enforcement these days is just beyond belief. Didn't have a gun - a bat's, ok (per mom - dad is ?) This kid is in college studying engineering - and suddenly - just goes off? Really? Never had a problem before? Sorry, not buying this. And who was the other "combatant" and how was she involved? This part might be very interesting!
 
#9 ·
And who was the other "combatant" and how was she involved? This part might be very interesting!
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/27/us/chicago-police-shooting/index.html

Looks like either a cop can't shoot, sprayed and prayed, or just didn't give a damn about the path of his bullet.
 
#14 ·
A Bat, as a weapon.

About 5 years ago while off-duty I encountered two males wrestling and fighting on the ground. One combatant had a 4"-5" gash on his head, face and front of body covered with blood; gashed almost to the bone. The other guy had an aluminum Tee Ball Bat in hand and was trying to hit the other guy. He obviously struck him very hard once; the guy with the head gash wasn't doing too bad of a job blocking the bat but eventually he would have been beaten badly.

I stopped the car in the middle of the street, exited it, drew an off-duty handgun, yelled "Police, stop." Son of a gun they stopped. The guy with the bat stood up and began advancing towards me with the bat in hand...I very loudly told him "Police, drop the bat or I will shoot you." (he was about two steps away from being able to swing the bat at me) For a split second he had the look on his face like - I bet I can take this guy...Not! After he dropped the bat and was proned out on the ground we waited for the local PD to arrive.

Striking someone in the head with an aluminum baseball bat is, based on my training and experience is use of deadly force and may be met with deadly force to stop the threat. Both parties complied when I told them to stop; the assailant dropped the bat (complied) when I ordered him to; fortunately I didn't need to shoot him.

With regards to the Chicago shooting - obviously the officer responded to the situation as he saw he should; no arm chair quarterbacking here; I just hope that for the officer's sake that his actions will be upheld as justifiable. If not Chicago is not the place I'd want to go on trial for the shooting......
 
#18 ·
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ch...o-call-fatally-shoots-2/ar-BBnWDVv?li=BBnb7Kz



So even when they're acting like nuts and swinging a baseball bat at you you're supposed to walk up and hug them. Got it.
This story is light on details but I'm pretty sure it says the 19-year-old was shot and killed. And (very) sadly so was the 55-year-old neighbor lady.

And people always play on the comments of the parents whose children were killed. It's a very rare mom or dad who comes forward after the shooting and says, "My son has mental issues, but he was being crazy, so the police did the right thing by killing him, I commend them, and thank them for their service to the community."

A lot of headlines get posted like this along with questions like "So the cops were supposed to go high five the suspect?!?!" But in each of these stories, the suspects are dead, the officers are alive, and the world continues to move forward.

If we ever start seeing stories about how a police officer got killed by a suspect because the officer refused to protect himself/herself because of all the news stories about cops, or some new department policy or law, or if an officer was actually being punished for doing what was clearly the right thing to do, THEN I could see why we might make a fuss about a news report on a shooting.

Failing that, a lot of this discourse is just fanning the flames that burn along the divide.
 
#70 ·
It's a very rare mom or dad who comes forward after the shooting and says, "My son has mental issues, but he was being crazy, so the police did the right thing by killing him, I commend them, and thank them for their service to the community.
I really don't think any parent would ever say the police did the right thing by killing their Son.

I can see a parent saying in a situation like this: With the mental issues he had, I can understand why they took the course of action they did.

No parent would be glad the police shot and killed their Son though.
 
#23 ·
Cav, not arguing that the GUY ( =p ) with the bat wasn't a threat and didn't need stopped.

I will argue that the police were criminally negligent and should be charged with manslaughter. Guilty or not depends on a jury (and whatever recordings the police can produce as evidence).

There are plenty of people charged with crimes with no intent. How's the story go, three felonies a day for most people?
 
#25 ·
So in your mind, there should be no investigation to any shootings and just arrest made? What if he bonds out? Can he go back to work?

Would it shock you to know that Illinois has legal defense's for manslaughter and the top two listed address this shooting? Self Defense and the Defense of another. You have to be able to prove set things happened, if not, you chance a judge going back and dismissing every case with prejudice .

I never heard that people do 3 felonies a day. They might break a traffic code or three every day and do a misdemeanor once a week. Felony Charges take a bit of effort to do. To put a person in jail and charge them with a crime most states require intent be shown. There is no requirement to show motive - why they did it. But you must show intent - they did the act knowing the outcome (Intentionally, Knowingly, Criminal Intent, Etc...).
 
#24 ·
A bat can be used as a weapon.

Your fists can be used as weapons.

Is anyone going to educate these morons on what is a weapon?

Or is it just the media who is too ignorant to understand the basics?

I think they should use a bat or fists on the reporters and then they'll see it's a weapon that can cause great bodily harm.

Then maybe they'll get it.
 
#26 ·
#27 ·
Sounds like Harvey Silverglate is a hype man. I don't believe the hype. Interesting though and while we do have a lot of silly Federal Crimes, there is no way people could violate 3 of those examples a day.

That first link had awful examples used IMHO.
 
#29 ·
I'm sure many of us have unknowingly violated a gun law or two before (ever leave the house with your carry piece but forgot your wallet containing your CPL?), and virtually all of us exceed the speed limit daily even if unintentional and only for a few brief seconds. Hell, just today I moved the cars around at my place, but I did so without my drivers license on me and I didn't fasten my seat belt. But calling us all lawbreakers just because we don't dot every single "i" and cross every single "t" each day is a little bit absurd. No cop would give me a ticket just because I backed my car out of the driveway and parked it out on the street without a license or seat belt, even if *technically* I broke the law. As for the police themselves breaking the law, they have a job to do and if we arrested every single one for assault each time they got into a scuffle with someone there wouldn't be any cops left on the street at night. It's their job to go after lawbreakers and get physical with troublesome people if necessary, not spend all day rescuing cats out of trees and visiting children in hospitals like the liberals think they should all be doing.
 
#30 ·
Shooting the guy with the bat is one thing, and let the evidence decide the outcome.

Shooting a bystander is unacceptable, the Cop needs to be held accountable for taking an innocent life (turn in badge, years in-prison, I hope - and he would still be getting off very easy).

C.A.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Before straying too far, the primary reason the police had to be called this time, was that the son was mentally ill, maybe off his meds, and definitely out of control.

This scenario happens all to often. The son is an "adult" and mentally ill. Why was he not committed to an institution? This is being asked rhetorically, because most of us know that it's extremely difficult to get someone committed without going through a lengthy and expensive legal process.

Instead, the police are called to be the "guys in the white jackets", and they're not equipped to handle those types of incidents. Cops have their pistols, maybe pepper spray, maybe a taser, and sometimes their hands. Their job is not psychological or psychiatric counseling. They have to quell a bad situation and require overwhelming force to do it. The father felt he himself was in imminent peril, or he wouldn't have called in the first place.

Once the guns come out, and the shooting starts, no one for 180 degrees from the cop is not a target, whether by chance or choice. And, no one yet knows exactly where the dead woman was before she was shot.

It goes back to the adage: When the only tool in the toolbox is a hammer, everything must be a nail.
 
#44 ·
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ch...o-call-fatally-shoots-2/ar-BBnWDVv?li=BBnb7Kz

So even when they're acting like nuts and swinging a baseball bat at you you're supposed to walk up and hug them. Got it.
I've refrained from this thread thus far because there is a huge information void, much more so than in most of these cases we discuss.

At no place in the linked article did it say that he was " ...swinging a baseball bat at you"... this is an ASSUMPTION.

Yes, a bat can be a weapon, no argument from me. Whether the suspect was presenting a "reasonable" threat remains to be seen.

A third-party was also killed unintentionally. Intent notwithstanding, it has not been determined if the officers actions in firing his weapon were reasonable or negligent.
- If the former, I would not assign liability the unintentional death to the officer. If EVERY action of the officer was within use of force requirements, and he wasn't just blasting away (he was actually shooting as he was trained) , the collateral damage, while tragic, is the fault of the suspect.
- if the latter, and any action on the officers part was unreasonable, out of policy, or negligent, then he is wholly responsible for that death, and should be held criminally liable.

Lastly, given the century+ long history of CPD for abuse, corruption, and cover up, anything coming out of them or from their officers is suspect at best....
 
#130 ·
This was my sentiment when my wife showed me the interview with the father last night. It was a very emotional interview (as is should have been), but the story was very short on the facts needed to make a determination (even a personal one) of right and wrong.
 
#55 ·
I grow weary of these situations. How about we quit hiring the guys that can operate technology in the squad car, and bring back tough men who can operate brass knuckles, saps, and batons, hm? Firearms as last resort, rather than first option? I've worked as a bouncer unarmed, I currently work in a behavioral hospital with people brought to us from detention centers, in chains. We work short staffed and bare handed. So spare me the tales of woe.
I don't want cops to die. I want them held accountable. But give them tools to work with and the training to use the tools, both verbal and physical. No money in the training budget? Betcha that training costs less than the payout a shooting costs the city.
I don't hold the answers, nor do I claim to be an expert. Never worked in L.E. in my life. My father and father in law retired from it, and son works in it. I don't have the temperament. Because I do believe that a baton breaking an arm or collarbone, or a broken nose or busted lip is preferential to killing, whenever possible. If gunfire is the only recourse, then use it, and use it well.

Now, gripe at me if you wish, but there's my opinion. Harden up, American police, because some of us still believe in you to protect and serve.
 
#57 ·
More information could significantly affect -- in either direction -- my first-impression sentiments in this incident.

Given this above situation, I hesitate to make any suggestions as to whether the officer's actions were appropriate, inappropriate, or somewhere in-between (i.e., questionable).

It's easy to relate to the mother's expressed sentiments or the innocent bystander and her survivors.

But being in the officers' shoes and suddenly facing a strong, young man threatening violence with a baseball bat (a lethal weapon) is also something that easy to relate to ... in terms of self defense.
 
#59 ·
One of the facets of this story that I find more stunning than not, is that this incident caused the Mayor, Rahm Emanuel, to cut his vacation with his family short and return to Chicago.

AND where was he? CUBA!

For many of us here in South Florida who are vehemently anti-Castro, I find his vacation choice problematic. This imbecile must be a dye-in-the-wool communist. Of all the beautiful Islands in the Caribbean, many are American territory, he elects to vacation in communist Cuba ahead of state department policy fully allowing normal citizens to travel there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-chicago-shooting-idUSKBN0UB1FN20151228
Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel said on Monday he would cut his family vacation in Cuba short to address the fatal shooting of two more black residents by a city police department already under federal investigation over its use of deadly force.
 
#61 ·
Two general common themes these days:
  1. But he was unarmed (apparently, if you don't have a gun you aren't armed).
  2. They didn't have to shoot to kill.
Context and situation is everything. The idea that they couldn't possibly kill or grievously injure if they didn't have a gun is an interesting mindset. As is the idea of somehow or other "shooting to wound".

Context and situation.
 
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top