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  #1  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:02 AM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
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He's fired? For that???

Personally, I would have thanked the guy and promoted him to management. But hey, if you want all your profit ripped off by some low life drug addicts, with the moral compass of a tilt-o-wheel...go nuts. Your no weapons policy will come secondary to this young man's well being, obviously. And your welcome by the way.

I understand it's their company policy, that's why this kid will take his level head elsewhere, thank you very much.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/hatchet-t...tore-clerk-gun
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:04 AM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
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. “We’d like to reunite you with the hatchet you left behind after the clerk responded with a handgun and a 911 call and you fled the scene,” Sgt. Marcus Mendoza said in a news release.
Lol! Awesome.
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:59 AM
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Unfortunately these are the times we live in. Most companies are more worried about liability and huge insurance premiums than common sense. They're less likely to get sued if their employee is injured or killed by a criminal than if they let the employee take matters into their own hands.

And BTW you know what their "de-escalation" policy means... do as the criminal says, even if it's to go into the back room or freezer and lie face-down on the floor so they can put one into the back of your head.
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:10 PM
Boge Boge is offline
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Of course, if the robber had been wearing a MAGA hat and the clerk did NOT shoot him he would have also been fired in Looney Left Oregon!!

(SARCASM)
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:52 PM
borderboss1 borderboss1 is offline
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"employees are trained to de-escalate robbery situations to avoid injury"

The clerk did de-escalate the situation, by making the robber understand that this robbery would not be good for his health.

The clerk should feel lucky to be rid of that job. Why would he want to work for a company that does not value his life? They want their employees to be defenseless and at the mercy of the next sociopath that walks in the door.
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Old 05-25-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by borderboss1 View Post
The clerk should feel lucky to be rid of that job. Why would he want to work for a company that does not value his life? They want their employees to be defenseless and at the mercy of the next sociopath that walks in the door.
Unfortunately unless you're self-employed, work in a gun store or get into LE/security good luck finding a new workplace that allows you to carry a firearm. Nearly all companies that employ more than a half-dozen workers now have no-weapons policies in place.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:12 PM
FNISHR FNISHR is offline
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Looks like effective de-escalation to me.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:39 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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A few notes:

1. The robber hid his face but was not wearing gloves. And now they have his hatchet!

2. The clerk should have not left the axe in play. A one-finger sweep over the edge of his side of the counter would have been smart.

3. And yes, insurance & Bottom Line wise, it's cheaper to let your workers risk death than allow them to carry.

Crazy but true.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:41 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Here's hoping someone with a smaller, non-corporate business hires the guy.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:48 PM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
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Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
A few notes:

1. The robber hid his face but was not wearing gloves. And now they have his hatchet!

2. The clerk should have not left the axe in play. A one-finger sweep over the edge of his side of the counter would have been smart.

3. And yes, insurance & Bottom Line wise, it's cheaper to let your workers risk death than allow them to carry.

Crazy but true.
Okay, but don't premiums go up if you get robbed more? I mean, robberies are covered by insurance right?
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:20 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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It's the "wring-our-hands/wuss-first" policy of a LOTTA employers these days, especially on the wrong coast.


Were I in OR, I'd boycott their stores. Let the lumbersexuals be preyed upon. I have better things to do.
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:32 PM
borderboss1 borderboss1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Unfortunately unless you're self-employed, work in a gun store or get into LE/security good luck finding a new workplace that allows you to carry a firearm. Nearly all companies that employ more than a half-dozen workers now have no-weapons policies in place.
Fortunately, min does not. My boss, the owner, is a big gun guy. The policy is mute on it.

You're also assuming that ever job is as dangerous as a clerk in a convenience store. Working in an office that has little retail interaction with the public is pretty darn safe.

But if i happen to need to be a convenience store clerk, I'm packing no matter what the company policy is. A minimum wage job isn't worth dying for.
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Old 05-25-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by borderboss1 View Post
You're also assuming that ever job is as dangerous as a clerk in a convenience store. Working in an office that has little retail interaction with the public is pretty darn safe.
Sadly even corporate offices are dangerous these days, as many disgruntled former employees have gone back to settle scores. Of course those kinds of people are partly to blame for the no-weapons policies in place... as if a person intent on shooting his former co-workers dead cares about gun-free zones.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:14 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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jamiesaun------ Yes, I think the loss of the eighty bucks in the till IS covered by insurance but that's the chumpiest of chump change.

Nobody cares about the damn $80 (there's probably a $500 deductible anyhow!)

Where the risk to the employer / insurance company is involves accidents & bad shoots.

If the company allows carry by clerks and someone is hurt or killed by an ND, by being a bystander behind a crim, or by a Bad Shoot, the store it's insurance is screwed.

By possibly MILLION$$$ of dollars.

Meanwhile, if a clerk gets killed by a robber it cannot be easily proven that had he been armed he would have lived. So there's very little liability in that.

So the corporation MUST have a no-gun policy. It's the financially responsible thing to do for the company & it's shareholders.

It's heinous, but true.

And I'm with Borderboss---- I too would carry if I worked at a convenience store. Screw the policy.

Last edited by magazineman; 05-25-2019 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:23 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Originally Posted by borderboss1 View Post
The clerk should feel lucky to be rid of that job.
Yea, the first line of his resume should read. “I value my life, the lives of the innocents near me, and I don’t take kindly to hatchet yielding violet criminals”. He will be hired by somebody, and better off for it.
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  #16  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:28 PM
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Yea, the first line of his resume should read. “I value my life, the lives of the innocents near me, and I don’t take kindly to hatchet yielding violet criminals”. He will be hired by somebody, and better off for it.
Unfortunately when prospective employers call his last job all they'll be told is that he was fired for violating company policy. Sadly the way things are going these days there may come a day when even having guns inside your own home or apartment becomes an insurance liability.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.

Last edited by dsk; 05-25-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:33 PM
bgw45 bgw45 is offline
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So, I'll ask the stupid question. Since the Biz takes away the ability of the employee to defend themselves, then why can't they be pursued as responsible?
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:34 PM
*MAYHEM* *MAYHEM* is online now
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Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
jamiesaun------ Yes, I think the loss of the eighty bucks in the till IS covered by insurance but that's the chumpiest of chump change.

Nobody cares about the damn $80 (there's probably a $500 deductible anyhow!)

Where the risk to the employer / insurance company is involves accidents & bad shoots.

If the company allows carry by clerks and someone is hurt or killed by an ND, by being a bystander behind a crim, or by a Bad Shoot, the store it's insurance is screwed.

By possibly MILLION$$$ of dollars.

Meanwhile, if a clerk gets killed by a robber it cannot be easily proven that had he been armed he would have lived. So there's very little liability in that.

So the corporation MUST have a no-gun policy. It's the financially responsible thing to do for the company & it's shareholders.

It's heinous, but true.

And I'm with Borderboss---- I too would carry if I worked at a convenience store. Screw the policy.
The store will claim the robber got away with $2000 in cash and merchandise. Even after a $500 deductible, they make a healthy profit and no one bats an eye. Two weeks later the same robber hits the same store again, and again makes off with $2000 in cash and goods. This time the store makes $2000 and only lost $75. What would you do?
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:51 PM
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So, I'll ask the stupid question. Since the Biz takes away the ability of the employee to defend themselves, then why can't they be pursued as responsible?
Unfortunately while businesses are required to provide a safe work environment they are not liable in the event of criminal mischief. If you get run over by a forklift in their warehouse then yes they're liable, but not if the forklift driver came to work with a gun and shot you. They can simply say that they forbade people from possessing a gun on company property per company policy and that was not heeded. They are not required to set up metal detectors and screen everyone who enters their building.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:09 PM
PeterNSteinmetz PeterNSteinmetz is offline
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Unfortunately while businesses are required to provide a safe work environment they are not liable in the event of criminal mischief. If you get run over by a forklift in their warehouse then yes they're liable, but not if the forklift driver came to work with a gun and shot you. They can simply say that they forbade people from possessing a gun on company property per company policy and that was not heeded. They are not required to set up metal detectors and screen everyone who enters their building.

Would be interesting to try and legally change this with respect to firearms carriage through legislation. Basically say that since the right to carry weapons is constitutionally protected, businesses open to the public are free to ban them, however, they are then liable for any criminal injury to a person who was not able to defend themselves, unless they provide screening with metal detectors etc.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:22 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is offline
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Subtly

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Originally Posted by bgw45 View Post
So, I'll ask the stupid question. Since the Biz takes away the ability of the employee to defend themselves, then why can't they be pursued as responsible?
Normally a criminal act severs liability: e.g. if you invite people to your backyard and a neighbor breaks an ankle in a post-hole, you’re liable; but a burglar sneaking through you backyard, trespassing, and you’re -not- liable. So businesses get the benefits of that severance due to a criminal act. HOWEVER: at one point, our State government notified businesses that prohibiting of licensed/permitted carry could open the businesses to civil liability in the event of criminal assaults upon permitted assault victims: *all* (almost all anyway) the enforceable “No guns” signs came down. One regional restaurant chain posted signs to satisfy their insurance underwriter; signs that deliberately, subtly missed being enforceable and therefore NOT leave the chain open to liability. Wow!
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:36 PM
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Would be interesting to try and legally change this with respect to firearms carriage through legislation. Basically say that since the right to carry weapons is constitutionally protected, businesses open to the public are free to ban them, however, they are then liable for any criminal injury to a person who was not able to defend themselves, unless they provide screening with metal detectors etc.
Well now you're talking about prohibiting customers conducting business from having them. Employees are another story. Businesses are still private property and they can prohibit anything they want, and if you're working for them they even have the right to tell you what to wear.
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2019, 08:45 PM
PeterNSteinmetz PeterNSteinmetz is offline
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Well now you're talking about prohibiting customers conducting business from having them. Employees are another story. Businesses are still private property and they can prohibit anything they want, and if you're working for them they even have the right to tell you what to wear.

I agree from a strictly Libertarian perspective. And it would likely be better if we could go that direction. In my view, private property should be at the sole discretion of the owner so long as use is peaceful.

We are so far from that now it is a real pity.

But if we are going to have places of businesses open to the public regulated in terms of their behavior, such as not being allowed to discriminate on any basis they choose, then it strikes me that the change in liability laws could be an interesting approach which is minimally invasive on other rights.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:58 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterNSteinmetz View Post
Would be interesting to try and legally change this with respect to firearms carriage through legislation. Basically say that since the right to carry weapons is constitutionally protected, businesses open to the public are free to ban them, however, they are then liable for any criminal injury to a person who was not able to defend themselves, unless they provide screening with metal detectors etc.
Exactly the thrust of the letter sent by the State A.G. or general counsel or some such office: bar license holders and you may be liable for harm to them on your premises unless you provide armed security.
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Old 05-25-2019, 09:10 PM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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The accountants can quantify how much a employee is worth. But they cannot quantify a criminal or crazy person. They know how much it costs for a employee(s) to be injured or killed. Their insurance will pay for that. What they can't determine is how much it might cost them if employees injure or kill a criminal or crazy person. So they would rather sacrifice the employees instead. It is mainly driven by the insurance companies.A business or company has to have insurance to cover such things. So the insurance companies force them to sacrifice their employees. Remember you are only worth what the insurance company will pay to your survivors if you die.

Last edited by earlwb; 05-25-2019 at 09:11 PM. Reason: add more info
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