Help identifying frame and slide - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-03-2020, 01:10 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Help identifying frame and slide

Click image for larger version

Name:	1EAB08CD-82E0-47F7-AAAE-28157150F0B5.jpeg
Views:	78
Size:	255.1 KB
ID:	585164

Click image for larger version

Name:	0BCCD388-02A3-4D44-AEF2-AB4ED490B575.jpeg
Views:	78
Size:	222.5 KB
ID:	585166
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-03-2020, 01:49 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,422
Slide is clearly marked Remington Rand, a type 3 as seen from 1943-1945

I am not getting a clear reading on the serial number, it appears to be out of range for Remington.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-03-2020, 02:09 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
I have no idea who made frame.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 06-03-2020, 02:14 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Better picture

Click image for larger version

Name:	8A6D182E-D31D-4374-9B63-C805007FD64D.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	141.0 KB
ID:	585172
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-03-2020, 02:22 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,422
If the serial number is 2693681 or even 2683681 it is outside the range used by any WWII maker.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-03-2020, 03:24 PM
sevenL4 sevenL4 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: southern Oregon
Posts: 2,968
what is the serial number?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-03-2020, 04:46 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,694
If it's what Jim sees (and I seem to as well) then it's a bogus serial number.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-03-2020, 07:27 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
2693631
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-03-2020, 07:29 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Could it be a Ithaca.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-03-2020, 07:31 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Could it be a rock island rebuild?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-03-2020, 07:33 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
It has R I A above trigger.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-03-2020, 09:06 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,694
The last M1911A1 shipped to the US government was an Ithaca, #2660318. The assigned range for Ithaca at the time went up to #2693613 but Ithaca's contract was canceled before they reached that number. RIA would not have assigned that number to your pistol, as they were instructed to assign new numbers beginning with X if they came across any frames with an obliterated original number. Nobody at the time even knew what was the highest serial number for an issue M1911A1 pistol.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.

Last edited by dsk; 06-03-2020 at 09:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-03-2020, 10:46 PM
filson filson is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: alabama
Posts: 1,397
This particular frame has a large NO serial number prefix, (much like an RR) and Ithaca's prefix was a capitol N and a small "o". That muddies the water as does the serial number being very slightly higher than the published Ithaca serial number range. The RIA marks look legitimate but I can't discern the initials under the serial number. Could they be an FK?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-03-2020, 11:23 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,694
It looks like a Remington Rand frame to me, judging by the size of the M1911A1 US ARMY marking. Of course that's merely what I can discern from the low-res pic.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-04-2020, 03:50 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by filson View Post
This particular frame has a large NO serial number prefix, (much like an RR) and Ithaca's prefix was a capitol N and a small "o". That muddies the water as does the serial number being very slightly higher than the published Ithaca serial number range. The RIA marks look legitimate but I can't discern the initials under the serial number. Could they be an FK?
EB is stamped below serial number
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-04-2020, 04:39 PM
filson filson is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: alabama
Posts: 1,397
The EB stamping represents Elmer Bjerke, Small Arms Inspector Foreman at Rock Island Arsenal from 1947-1958
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-04-2020, 07:40 PM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willys49 View Post
2693631
Doesn't matter much but its 681. The 8 is partially obliterated but you can see it has a round top. The previous 3 has a flat top which would have been repeated if the 8 were a 3, which it isn't. Certainly looks like a correct, rebuilt/refinished RR, albeit a very late one.
__________________
The Old Dominion
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-04-2020, 10:42 PM
Willys49 Willys49 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
I appreciate the help and knowledge shared. What do you guys think it is worth.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-04-2020, 10:55 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1saxman View Post
Doesn't matter much but its 681. The 8 is partially obliterated but you can see it has a round top. The previous 3 has a flat top which would have been repeated if the 8 were a 3, which it isn't. Certainly looks like a correct, rebuilt/refinished RR, albeit a very late one.
Unfortunately it's not "correct" with a fishy serial number.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-05-2020, 07:56 AM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,037
No doubt it is an anomaly.
__________________
The Old Dominion
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-06-2020, 11:47 AM
Sergio Natali Sergio Natali is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: From somewhere in Northern Italy
Age: 65
Posts: 6,794
FWIK that pistol has got a funny number, but couldn't it be a correct arsenal rework?
Otherwise wouldn't be strange that besides the Rock Island Arsenal stamp there are also Elmer Bjerke initials that followed Frank Krack as foreman at RIA.
__________________
Sergio
Anything with a FLGR is fluff, if JMB didn't put it on the 1911 you don't need it.
If you're going to collect, be careful not to get drawn to a piece that is not original, make sure it is a very good example and buy the gun not the story.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-06-2020, 05:22 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,694
The old serial number lists that were floating around for decades after WW2 didn't mention the actual cutoff for pistols that were shipped, and only showed the ranges that were assigned which went well beyond the actual guns made and shipped. Firearms fakers did suspect that the numbers didn't really go that high, which is why you often find guns in these phantom SN ranges which existed after WW1 and WW2. The fakers simply used a number they know wasn't actually used, but which matched the available lists and usually would-be buyers would be none the wiser. It was an easy way to take a pistol that had originally had the old number filed off or obliterated and simply put a new number on it.

Like I said, the military arsenals were instructed to use an X prefix on any frames that had an obliterated number and which had to be re-numbered.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-06-2020, 09:39 PM
corpsman5 corpsman5 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 391
I would have said that the frame is RR based on the "NO" rather than the earlier "No.".
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-07-2020, 03:06 AM
stan2 stan2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,206
2693631 or 2693681? Does it matter? (MAYBE ?)

SRS lists 2693614 X thru 2693665 X 050249 RARITAN ARS

And, 2693668 thru 2693685 060649 MT RANIER OD ....There is NO "X" noted in this range in SRS ! ?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-07-2020, 11:26 AM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan2 View Post
2693631 or 2693681? Does it matter? (MAYBE ?)

SRS lists 2693614 X thru 2693665 X 050249 RARITAN ARS

And, 2693668 thru 2693685 060649 MT RANIER OD ....There is NO "X" noted in this range in SRS ! ?
Well. Maybe it does!
__________________
The Old Dominion
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved