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  #1  
Old 05-05-2020, 01:37 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is offline
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New Zealanders hand in guns and ammo with no compensation.

I bet the democrats are taking notes on what is happening in New Zealand.

I have already saw something the other day about the squad wanting to cancel property rights during the pandemic;

https://www.westernjournal.com/squad...ghts-pandemic/

Who needs property when the socialist masters take care of your every need?



https://bearingarms.com/cam-e/2020/0...of-gun-owners/

Just a few lines quoted from the artcle.

“The controversial confiscation of firearms in ammunition in New Zealand is now playing out in court, and attorneys for the New Zealand government made a shocking argument in court on Monday.

The Government did not need to compensate people for making them hand over ammunition after the Christchurch mosque attacks, a court has heard.

The Government “extinguished all property rights of any kind” for gun owners when it brought in gun law reform last year, a court has heard.

In fact, the government attorneys argued that not only did the government not have an obligation to compensate gun owners for their confiscated ammunition; they didn’t need to compensate gun owners for their confiscated firearms as well.

The Government’s decision to buy guns back from owners was a choice by Parliament, “because politically is seemed unfair to say to what had been law-abiding firearms owners who had purchased their firearms in good faith that you have to surrender them for destruction”.

He said there was no obligation for compensation, because compensation was only required when property was acquired by the Government for a purpose.
“If the property is taken for a purpose it is an acquisition and it must be compensated, and in New Zealand law, most often, it is.”


“If the Government wins this case, it will set a very dangerous precedent for New Zealand. It will mean future governments will be able to deny the value of private property either by ordering its destruction or confiscation, meaning individual New Zealanders would have to wear the loss.”


Can the New Zealand government simply take possession of whatever property it’s declared illegal to own? If so, McKee is right, and it’s not just gun ownership that would be a privilege in the country. Property rights in general would become property privileges, and a supposedly free society would be revealed as an authoritarian state.”
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  #2  
Old 05-05-2020, 02:31 PM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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That's an entirely different culture. In the common wealth nations, guns are considered items of privilege and luxury like that of golf clubs or fine sports cars. To fire one in anger or at a person for any reason is simply absurd to those sort of people.

In the United States there are large numbers of people that have bought guns for societal collapse, especially in the last few months. A government forced confiscation would turn ugly in certain parts fast.
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  #3  
Old 05-05-2020, 02:45 PM
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There is already a precedent here. Habitual drunks or street racers who have their vehicles confiscated do not get fair compensation, although that is of course punishment for criminal behavior. However it would not be much of a legal stretch to extend that to possession of anything no longer deemed legal to own or use.
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Old 05-05-2020, 05:04 PM
OZ 1911 OZ 1911 is online now
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The right to life, the right to defend life is NOT negotiable - my right to keep and bear the implements for this will NOT be infringed!!!
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  #5  
Old 05-05-2020, 05:27 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
punishment for criminal behavior. However it would not be much of a legal stretch to extend that to possession of anything no longer deemed legal to own or use.
That is their purpose in continually trying to pass laws that will eventually make owning most any thing except maybe a 22 single shot rifle illegal. They want to make criminals out of law abiding citizens then they can punish them for all their crimes.
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Old 05-05-2020, 05:38 PM
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The right to life, the right to defend life is NOT negotiable - my right to keep and bear the implements for this will NOT be infringed!!!
You're preaching to the choir. Tell that to the leftists in this country who believe that there is no such thing as a law-abiding gun owner, and that none of us have any rights at all because we're all a bunch of Nazi fascists.
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Old 05-05-2020, 05:45 PM
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In the end, they can say whatever they want. It does not change fact.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:44 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Well now that at least theoretically the New Zealand government.

[QUOTE=SC shooter;13146932“If the Government wins this case, it will set a very dangerous precedent for New Zealand. It will mean future governments will be able to deny the value of private property either by ordering its destruction or confiscation, meaning individual New Zealanders would have to wear the loss.”
Can the New Zealand government simply take possession of whatever property it’s declared illegal to own? If so, McKee is right, and it’s not just gun ownership that would be a privilege in the country. Property rights in general would become property privileges, and a supposedly free society would be revealed as an authoritarian state.”[/QUOTE]

Is the only armed force in the country. They can pretty much do whatever they want. Who will stop them? The last time that I checked. They were also the people that make the laws of the land.

And as far as government compensation for firearms, ammo, land, food or anything else. That is a complete farce in and of itself. Where do you think that governments get their money?
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  #9  
Old 05-05-2020, 11:20 PM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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The assault on the Second Amendment, by local and state governments, and by wealthy individuals and their goon squad stooges, is no different than a home invasion robbery that threatens the lives of you and your family. To consider it as "politics as usual" is to bend over and let them put your guns where the sun doesn't shine. This is a war and the Constitution and the USA are fighting for their lives. All you have to do is decide which side you are on and what you're going to do about.
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  #10  
Old 05-05-2020, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
In the end, they can say whatever they want. It does not change fact.
Except that they're slowly changing the "facts". When I was in China I watched a movie about the Communist revolution, and I couldn't get over how badly it whitewashed history. I knew it was going to be a piece of pro-Mao propaganda, but it was absolutely sick how he was portrayed as a Chinese Jesus Christ and any mention of his murderous purges of rivals and opponents was left out. Unfortunately it was presented as a historian-approved documentary so Chinese citizens too old to know the truth likely believe every single word of it.

So basically what I'm saying is, the leftists are trying to do the same thing here. In our schools, on mainstream news, and in the workplace.
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Old 05-05-2020, 11:39 PM
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Sure they try.

But we won't let them.

Like all tyrannical turds, they always...ALWAYS, fail in the end.
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Old 05-05-2020, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Sure they try.

But we won't let them.

Like all tyrannical turds, they always...ALWAYS, fail in the end.
I don't understand why you always say this? Most of the time in human history they win.......
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Old 05-05-2020, 11:54 PM
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Really? Do tell.
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2020, 01:17 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Really? Do tell.
Every single major empire to date, all communist countries, most middle eastern ones, most east European ones.......in all of those the subjects were at the whim of the rules and in lots of cases still are.
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:43 AM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
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You're preaching to the choir. Tell that to the leftists in this country who believe that there is no such thing as a law-abiding gun owner, and that none of us have any rights at all because we're all a bunch of Nazi fascists.
Perhaps. But we're a bunch of Fascists with guns though. If they really want them so bad, well I guess they better just come on over and get them then, huh?
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:44 AM
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Is the only armed force in the country. They can pretty much do whatever they want. Who will stop them? The last time that I checked. They were also the people that make the laws of the land.

And as far as government compensation for firearms, ammo, land, food or anything else. That is a complete farce in and of itself. Where do you think that governments get their money?
Awesome point.
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:47 AM
jamiesaun jamiesaun is offline
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Every single major empire to date, all communist countries, most middle eastern ones, most east European ones.......in all of those the subjects were at the whim of the rules and in lots of cases still are.
True. Don't forget all the ancient one from long ago.

The difference is the way our country was founded, completely different than anything before it. We actually believe it's our right, because it is. I ain't giving up ****.
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Every single major empire to date, all communist countries, most middle eastern ones, most east European ones.......in all of those the subjects were at the whim of the rules and in lots of cases still are.
Sometimes it takes time...maybe decades. But they all fall.

Examples from modern times:
British empire, gone.
Nazis, gone.
Soviets, gone.

Cuba is on the way out.

Iran can go any day.

Tyranny is real and resilient. It always comes back, but it always gets defeated in the end.

The fight between Good and Evil is the original story. It started on Day 1. And it remains the continual story. It never ends. But the only way we lose to Evil is if we quit and accept defeat.

And brother, I ain't doing that.
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:45 AM
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Seems to me to be a circular argument to say that all evil/tyranical governments will fall because they always have. You could argue the same thing about every good government. Human history is change. Every society and government changes over the centuries. The US won't still exist in its current form and legal system centuries from now. It just won't... that doesn't have to be a negative... a living system isn't static... it evolves over time. We can hope that today's "best" government systems are going to evolve into even better and "freer" societies than we have today... but there is no real historical guarantee either way.
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:58 AM
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Nothing wrong with a circular argument when it's true.
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  #21  
Old 05-06-2020, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
The fight between Good and Evil is the original story. It started on Day 1. And it remains the continual story. It never ends. But the only way we lose to Evil is if we quit and accept defeat.

And brother, I ain't doing that.
This is where the rubber meets the road and exactly what I believe.
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Old 05-06-2020, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
That's an entirely different culture. In the common wealth nations, guns are considered items of privilege and luxury like that of golf clubs or fine sports cars...
The Crown Giveth, and the Crown Taketh...

... coming to a Common Wealth Nation near us... Canuckland!
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2020, 03:14 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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That's fair, I'm just a little worn looking at how history tends to flow in regards to the balance between free individuals and states
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  #24  
Old 05-06-2020, 03:49 PM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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Originally Posted by SC shooter View Post
I bet the democrats are taking notes on what is happening in New Zealand.

I have already saw something the other day about the squad wanting to cancel property rights during the pandemic;

https://www.westernjournal.com/squad...ghts-pandemic/

Who needs property when the socialist masters take care of your every need?



https://bearingarms.com/cam-e/2020/0...of-gun-owners/

Just a few lines quoted from the artcle.

“The controversial confiscation of firearms in ammunition in New Zealand is now playing out in court, and attorneys for the New Zealand government made a shocking argument in court on Monday.

The Government did not need to compensate people for making them hand over ammunition after the Christchurch mosque attacks, a court has heard.

The Government “extinguished all property rights of any kind” for gun owners when it brought in gun law reform last year, a court has heard.

In fact, the government attorneys argued that not only did the government not have an obligation to compensate gun owners for their confiscated ammunition; they didn’t need to compensate gun owners for their confiscated firearms as well.

The Government’s decision to buy guns back from owners was a choice by Parliament, “because politically is seemed unfair to say to what had been law-abiding firearms owners who had purchased their firearms in good faith that you have to surrender them for destruction”.

He said there was no obligation for compensation, because compensation was only required when property was acquired by the Government for a purpose.
“If the property is taken for a purpose it is an acquisition and it must be compensated, and in New Zealand law, most often, it is.”


“If the Government wins this case, it will set a very dangerous precedent for New Zealand. It will mean future governments will be able to deny the value of private property either by ordering its destruction or confiscation, meaning individual New Zealanders would have to wear the loss.”


Can the New Zealand government simply take possession of whatever property it’s declared illegal to own? If so, McKee is right, and it’s not just gun ownership that would be a privilege in the country. Property rights in general would become property privileges, and a supposedly free society would be revealed as an authoritarian state.”
That would move me to outright open war against the government.
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  #25  
Old 05-06-2020, 05:01 PM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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Well it is an illusion as to property rights in the US too. Imminent domain is used regularly to seize homes and property. The local governments abuse it all the time. If A developer wants your land they bribe the local government to seize it for them too. Then there is seizing property for unpaid school or property taxes. Many Home Owners Associations abuse this as well. Don't pay your HOA dues and they can take your property from you. Banks have been notorious for foreclosing on properties that they don't own and getting away with it. You have to have a lot of money to hire lawyers to fight them in court and that could take years. But you would still lose your property while it is winding through the court system. Most people cannot afford to fight it.

So I am not sure if we really have much for rights and freedoms anymore in the US. Freedom of speech has become censored for the most part especially in certain states. Our 2A rights are being steadily eroded down to nothing. it goes on and on.
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