it can't get much better than this story of self defense - Page 2 - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 05-23-2020, 04:22 PM
Obi-Wan Obi-Wan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Montana
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
...But it could happen in any neighborhood really as I am sure everyone knows.

And that is the really bad thing about this. It can happen anywhere at almost any time. This is why we should always CCW. You never know.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-23-2020, 05:48 PM
Tim Burke's Avatar
Tim Burke Tim Burke is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: NC
Posts: 10,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan View Post
I think what was going through the defender's head was making sure as possible for each shot that the rounds we're landing on target. Not that he was in anyway looking to see if he got a hit, just that he was focusing on the shot. I doubt if he was thinking too much about what the attacker was doing, just that he shot well.
That's what I think, too. 44/100ths of a second is enough time to ascertain that you still have an upright target and then to fire again. It's not enough time to look downrange and try to see your hits and then fire again. I bet his Bill drill at that distance has faster splits.
__________________
TB., NC
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-23-2020, 05:54 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,269
Okay. That does not entirely clear things up on what happened, or exactly match what was said by Baldwin in the NRA interview, but close enough.

It may be that Baldwin & the punk "had words" or that in some way Baldwin was, or was perceived to be, related to the gun shop incident earlier in the day.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-23-2020, 06:35 PM
Obi-Wan Obi-Wan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Montana
Posts: 118
it can't get much better than this story of self defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Okay. That does not entirely clear things up on what happened, or exactly match what was said by Baldwin in the NRA interview, but close enough.

It may be that Baldwin & the punk "had words" or that in some way Baldwin was, or was perceived to be, related to the gun shop incident earlier in the day.


I agree, something else happened. Might have been nothing to the defender but spun up the attacker. There is something else hidden here.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:53 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,269
Probably, yes. Also, If that was an In & Out Burger trash can, it likely WAS cover.

They usually have heavy, square concrete trash receptacles with a brown plastic lid.

Finished in Epoxy Pebble.

Yeah, I've scarfed a lot of burgers at In & Out parking lots!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-24-2020, 09:44 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,381
How did some one come up with this 10 shots in 4 seconds !! Maybe it was less . Time does tends to s l o w down when under stress . When JB notice the BG they were not very close . about 80 yards walking toward the GF . Firing 10 shots with 10 body hits even at 30 yards would be pretty good shoot at night under low light . I would say JB Baldwin is a heck of a shooter under stress . JB might have used a red dot equipped pistol in video below too .

HEY combat auto in post #7 remember the LE that fired 37 rounds with 14 hits on a BG all fired at short range .

. I never learned to shoot at a threat only what 1 or 2 or 3 times !! Shoot till there's no longer a threat .

JB Baldwin video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1262801509663870978
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-24-2020, 12:06 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,269
As I said, the NRA video & what the fact seem to be, differ.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-24-2020, 01:25 PM
Obi-Wan Obi-Wan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Montana
Posts: 118
it can't get much better than this story of self defense

Good video, especially the part about Biden, even though he has probably forgotten about gun control and Orourke due to his inability to remember what has happened yesterday.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-24-2020, 01:39 PM
combat auto combat auto is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
How did some one come up with this 10 shots in 4 seconds !! Maybe it was less . Time does tends to s l o w down when under stress . When JB notice the BG they were not very close . about 80 yards walking toward the GF . Firing 10 shots with 10 body hits even at 30 yards would be pretty good shoot at night under low light . I would say JB Baldwin is a heck of a shooter under stress . JB might have used a red dot equipped pistol in video below too .

HEY combat auto in post #7 remember the LE that fired 37 rounds with 14 hits on a BG all fired at short range .

. I never learned to shoot at a threat only what 1 or 2 or 3 times !! Shoot till there's no longer a threat .

JB Baldwin video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1262801509663870978
h', I do remember a number of high-round count shooting by LE's over the years, but I can't remember any particular one in detail...I tried googling on "37 rounds" and "14 hits" and some other stuff but wasn't able to locate an exact shoot of this nature...If you have a link I'd like to look at it.

I can't say I remember many high-round civilian shoots over the years, in fact this might be the 1st 10R SD shoot I can remember (granted that doesn't mean there aren't a number of them out there). But this does make this shoot kinda unique...

It does shed a lot of light though with 9 of the 10 hits on his chest as far as the capability of 9mm and the notion that shot placement is "everything". This guy is a professional shooter and he put 9 rounds on the X in the chest. I sincerely doubt many CCW people can match that and certainly will not exceed it if they think they are going to hit the heart or spinal column "at will". This is likely the best performance we will see in this regard (from just about anyone) in a SD situation, and he was lucky the perp was a bad shot during the time it took to shoot those 10 round he fired...So yes, shot placement has the top priority but it is not everything. One wants to chose a potent round if they can handle it.

Of course I don't know for sure it is a 9mm, but I'd put odds on it. I hope we find out. I also wish we can find out the exact load in the given caliber because that is also anecdotal data I'd like to have rather than not have. Who knows, maybe he is shooting 9mm ball, it is not beyond the realm of possibilities, and may explain the shaky ballistic effect. - LOL.

And If it turns out to be a 40 or a 45, I'll just have to eat-crow ;-).

(Disclosure, I do own 1 9mm).
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." ľUlysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 05-24-2020 at 02:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-24-2020, 02:07 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan View Post
The other thing is that time slowed down for me. It was like I had plenty of time to make decisions although police and my wife said it was over in a matter of seconds. Yet for me it seemed like minutes.
This is commonplace, the norm or rule rather that the exception. Until one experiences it, its difficult to comprehend, and almost impossible to comprehend.
The human brain is quite capable of receiving, processing, sorting, and responding to vast amounts of sensory input very rapidly. Doing so creates physiological stressors, so its not a capability that the subconscious chooses to exercise regularly. However, when it comes to fight or flight, the brain goes into overdrive, receiving and processing inputs.
People get wrapped up with time- because its easy to measure and quantify. In this case, .44/sec splits. That's a huge amount of time in a fight- press trigger, watch bullet impact, polish your shoes, assess target reaction, order a pizza, decide whether or not to fire again....

You can "test" reaction times 6 ways from Sunday, but thats the brain in normal operating mode. Unfortunately, you cannot artificially trigger the brain to function in survival mode.
__________________
I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-24-2020, 02:54 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,269
wccountryboy is Spot-On. Look at tennis.

Based on the other player's stance & swing you have to calculate these things:

Where's the ball going to go?

What angle do you need to adjust your racket to, to return that 110 MPH serve to where you desire?

How much is it going to drop in the 60 feet it's traveling on it's way to you?

How much will it slow? Because this determines when you start your swing.

So............................. How much time do you have to calculate all these variables & both plan & enact your response?

-------------------One Half Of One Second!!

As top predators, our brains can do this in that half second. Plus keep in mind that using paper & a slide rule the same observations & math would take us hours.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-24-2020, 03:28 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,217
A 95mph fastball takes .40 seconds to reach the plate. .25 seconds is a "normal" reaction time- to process, make a decision, and initiate reaction- leaving .15 seconds to execute.
However, nothing is being "calculated" in this time. The decision is made and executed z and hopefully it works. The best in the world fail 2 out of 3 attempts.... same with tennis- if players were successfully doing the math, the half dozen or so calculations, in a half second, in their head, they're be world class, PhD mathematicians... and games would last forever.
Both of these activities involve taking experience and indicators, and making a split second call on how to react. If you guess wrong, there's no recovery room...

I don't think sporting events trigger the "slow time" survival processing in the brain. I don't think its something that can be taught or trained to use on demand. Its part of the body's survival mechanism, that is triggered as required to live. There are 2 results from this process: faster than normal reactions and greater processing of input- lots of details that one wouldn't normally perceive becoming very clear- and being able to respond to that enhanced input.
We can teach SA, train the mind to perceive and process (rather than dismiss) certain sensory input. This helps with "seeing" something coming, but not necessarily with the reaction/ response.
__________________
I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams

Last edited by wccountryboy; 05-24-2020 at 03:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-24-2020, 04:04 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,198
Politically Inspired, Leftist/Dem Racial "Victimhood" is probably a major factor in the attack here, as well. Doesn't matter a bit if the assailant never saw his victims before - the motive was put into his mind actively by the Media, George Soros and the DNC carefully, over time and repetition. His victim's skin color was lighter than his, so all his problems were obviously caused by them - "They deserved it".

This goes to the motivation of the assailant (it wasn't robbery), keep in mind that since Obama was President, the Left/Progressive/Liberal Movement and Media have fanned the flames of Racial Tension - on purpose, to keep certain groups fired up and in the "Dem" voting column. We saw this large, first with Trayvon Martin's attack on the Neighborhood Watch Captain (totally justified self defense shooting) and also at the St. Louis Riots over Mike Brown (phony "Hands Up Don't Shoot" lies) attacking a police officer (totally justified police shooting) leading to the totally Evil and Corrupt billionaire political funder and manipulator George Soros funding "Black Lives Matter" and making everything about Race and the fault of the Cops/Whites and not the Thuggery it really IS.

So now, you can be assaulted by someone based solely on the Victimhood he or she now feels because he has been SOLD the concept by the Liberal/Dem/Progressive Media and Dem Politicians - and the attacker will feel instantly Justified "everyone knows" you deserve it merely because you are White. Thus the revision of history by liberal educators to make America and her Values Evil in the eyes of the young - instead of the Beacon of Freedom America actually is.

Did anybody catch the video of the beating in the old folks home of two elderly whites by a Black man, sent there with Covid earlier this week? The attacker actually videoed the attack himself and posted his attitude and justifications as "black supremacy" prior to the attack.

People who sell Racial Hatred to generate their own Political Power - to guarantee themselves votes and to encourage people to hate - should be exiled - or executed..... CC
__________________
Col. Colt

Certified Law Enforcement Trainer
Certified Glock, Colt and Remington LE Armorer

Last edited by Col. Colt; 05-24-2020 at 04:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-24-2020, 04:24 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,269
I think that sports do replicate this in a few ways. I've spoken with martial artists & boxers who can describe every move & why they made them, in a match.

I never said this was perfectly figured & executed every time, but that's usually close to correct given the processing time allowed is amazing.

I've thought of various things while crashing cars & motorcycles. Potential injuries, insurance, replacement vehicles, all kinds of stuff, while still flying through the air. It's crazy how fast our brains can work.

But I do agree that this is most in effect when there is danger involved.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-24-2020, 04:53 PM
Obi-Wan Obi-Wan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Montana
Posts: 118
it can't get much better than this story of self defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
This is commonplace, the norm or rule rather that the exception. Until one experiences it, its difficult to comprehend, and almost impossible to comprehend.

The human brain is quite capable of receiving, processing, sorting, and responding to vast amounts of sensory input very rapidly. Doing so creates physiological stressors, so its not a capability that the subconscious chooses to exercise regularly. However, when it comes to fight or flight, the brain goes into overdrive, receiving and processing inputs.

People get wrapped up with time- because its easy to measure and quantify. In this case, .44/sec splits. That's a huge amount of time in a fight- press trigger, watch bullet impact, polish your shoes, assess target reaction, order a pizza, decide whether or not to fire again....



You can "test" reaction times 6 ways from Sunday, but thats the brain in normal operating mode. Unfortunately, you cannot artificially trigger the brain to function in survival mode.


Yes, it was like the passage of time changed for me. Things around me did not appear to slow down. Rather it was like I speeded up. Like the flash character is only way I can describe it. I had always heard of time slowing down for people but this was much different, it seemed the opposite where I was accelerated.

Last edited by Obi-Wan; 05-24-2020 at 05:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-24-2020, 05:19 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan View Post
Yes, it was like the passage of time changed for me. Things around me did not appear to slow down. Rather it was like I speeded up. Like the flash character is only way I can describe it. I had always heard of time slowing down for people but this was much different, it seemed the opposite where I was accelerated.
This is what you offered:

Quote:
The other thing is that time slowed down for me. It was like I had plenty of time to make decisions although police and my wife said it was over in a matter of seconds. Yet for me it seemed like minutes.
Regardless, its fundamentally the same perception- if you're processing and reacting faster while the event around you is "normal" speed, the results are generally the same.
__________________
I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-24-2020, 09:21 PM
Obi-Wan Obi-Wan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Montana
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
This is what you offered:







Regardless, its fundamentally the same perception- if you're processing and reacting faster while the event around you is "normal" speed, the results are generally the same.

True, I see that.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-25-2020, 01:59 AM
Obi-Wan Obi-Wan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Montana
Posts: 118
The thing I think is bizarre is that the shootout started with the equivalent of a frontal charge at least out at 80 yards. I have never heard of such a thing (except maybe battle of Chosin reservoir) where the bad guy made a frontal charge at that distance and the charge may have started further out since the woman noticed them charging at about 80 yards.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-25-2020, 08:17 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,538
This whole event is very interesting. After reading the news story it described Tory as 29 and BJ as I think 45. I was immediately struck with the revelation that she still is into older men....Lol
__________________
Ex-Military, 20+ years 3-Gun competitor, Colt certified Armorer, NRA Instructor, NSRT Officer-Retired, LGS Guru.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-25-2020, 10:45 AM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,107
It's not like they were using a shot clock at the time. When he says that it was all over in 4 seconds, I doubt that he was looking at his watch. None of us can calculate split times from this.

The important thing is that a good guy was able to protect his life from a violent criminal.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-25-2020, 11:04 AM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,269
Read the published News Type articles and compare to the NRA video.

Yes, the fast-walking charge seems odd, the 80 yards seems far, and the "smiling" of the perp at that distance, in the dark, sounds tough to discern.

Plus how does the gunshop incident play into this? Maybe more info will come out later.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-25-2020, 01:30 PM
Andy Andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,807
I wonder if there was any surveillance camera footage of the shooting. i haven't seen any, and wonder on what basis the ".44 split time" statement was made, Baldwin's NRA Tweet? Hardly empirical. The Good Guy is alive, the criminal is DRT, and his cohort is in jail. Cause for celebration, not denigration. They perpetrator's girlfriend is to be commended on her honesty for safeguarding evidence and handing it over to the police - not hiding it and making up a story about how an(other) innocent victim had been gunned down by some AWRG (Angry White Racist Guy, the Left's favorite spin-up).
__________________
"Generally, to make any particular shot, the most difficult distance to master is that between one's ears." - AA

Last edited by Andy; 05-25-2020 at 01:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-25-2020, 01:52 PM
Andy Andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wheels View Post
details on this will be interesting... That is some training to be able to apply 10 hits so fast. My question is why did it take 10? What caliber was he using?
You have been brainwashed by Hollywood. In extremis, you had better not be looking for what effect your shot had before firing another. If you want to live, you keep shooting until the background behind your front sight changes...
__________________
"Generally, to make any particular shot, the most difficult distance to master is that between one's ears." - AA
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-25-2020, 01:54 PM
Andy Andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wheels View Post
details on this will be interesting... That is some training to be able to apply 10 hits so fast. My question is why did it take 10? What caliber was he using?
You have been brainwashed by Hollywood. In extremis at close quarters, you had better not be looking for what effect your shot had before firing another. If you want to live, you keep shooting until the background behind your front sight changes...
__________________
"Generally, to make any particular shot, the most difficult distance to master is that between one's ears." - AA
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-25-2020, 02:04 PM
Andy Andy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAS1 View Post
I noticed that too. Why didn't she engage and put all her skills to a real world self defense situation?
Likely, she was not carrying (due to wearing "girl clothes"?) or realized that it was not a good idea to draw against a gun pointed at her and was trying to wake up her boyfriend. Too many people focus their attention on their smart phones to check messages, not on what is going on around them. Not so smart - esp. in a parking lot at 2AM.
__________________
"Generally, to make any particular shot, the most difficult distance to master is that between one's ears." - AA
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:26 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved