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  #1  
Old 05-08-2020, 12:35 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Red flag.

What a great idea!

https://www.americangunnews.com/anot...h-by-the-cops/
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2020, 01:21 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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I used to be a strong supporter of LEOs. That's starting to dwindle rapidly, especially with all the stormtrooper actions against people for violating unlawful and unconstitutional local and state orders. Orders that are quite unconstitutional. Then add things like this.

I hope the family can prove and present a compelling case and that legal action can force release of ALL bodycam footage.

It's getting to the point that people need to have full video surveillance of their homes with secure recording. Maybe we all need to start wearing personal bodycams with remote storage for video security.

Seriously, what would you expect doing a no knock in the very wee hours. Somebody kicks a door in at that hour ripping people out of their sleep an armed response from the people in the house is not unreasonable. Especially with the rise in home invasions. A bunch of dressed up guys wielding guns and yelling police in the wee hours doesn't mean they are. Impersonating police to commit crimes isn't a one off deal. It's been done and done again.

Here's an idea. Skip the no knock and actually knock on the door during normal hours. You already have a freaking SWAT team there to respond if someone inside goes hot. Stuff the it's safer for the LE to attack unannounced in the wee hours. Yeah, it can be a bit more risky during the day and announcing. Unless you have very serious and legitimate information that the people inside are truly dangerous criminals or actual proof they are conducting criminal activity that you need fast action to secure evidence don't do the whole military, wee hours assault on citizens with no more than somebody said.

When considering the danger to LE there should also be consideration for how much you are endangering a household of people that as a whole don't have a history of violence. From what I can see from the article it was an upscale neighborhood and nothing about the family that presents as a clear and present danger. If that can actually be proved otherwise then I stand corrected. However, the just in case, heavy handed approach is quite wrong.

In cases of Red Flag laws gone wrong not only the LE involved, but their supervisors, the judge who signed off on the warrant, and the person who called it in, should all be held both criminally and civilly responsible. And fully prosecuted.

So far our Sheriff and Deputies have been pretty good. The Sheriff and at least one of the Deputies that I know are staunch 2A people. While there have been some changes and restrictions, for the most part we are pretty open. The next county over, not so much. Then you have the Fat F&&(* sheriff with his equally robust, baby faced deputy behind him in Ector County rolling out with the MRAP and his SWAT team to arrest armed protestors and a woman bar owner when the woman made it a point to let them know they would be doing a peaceful protest and made sure to be off the bar property.

To those LEOs who take their oath seriously and want nothing to do with putting a boot on the throat of the American (the real, Constitution loving) people, full respect. To those who just say they were following orders and keeping their job. Must feel really good to be a domestic enemy.
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Old 05-08-2020, 01:37 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Good LUCK to gun owners in blue states. This'll become YOUR "new normal."
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  #4  
Old 05-08-2020, 02:08 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Iron Wolf View Post

Here's an idea. Skip the no knock and actually knock on the door during normal hours. You already have a freaking SWAT team there to respond if someone inside goes hot. Stuff the it's safer for the LE to attack unannounced in the wee hours. Yeah, it can be a bit more risky during the day and announcing. Unless you have very serious and legitimate information that the people inside are truly dangerous criminals or actual proof they are conducting criminal activity that you need fast action to secure evidence don't do the whole military, wee hours assault on citizens with no more than somebody said.

When considering the danger to LE there should also be consideration for how much you are endangering a household of people that as a whole don't have a history of violence. From what I can see from the article it was an upscale neighborhood and nothing about the family that presents as a clear and present danger. If that can actually be proved otherwise then I stand corrected. However, the just in case, heavy handed approach is quite wrong.

In cases of Red Flag laws gone wrong not only the LE involved, but their supervisors, the judge who signed off on the warrant, and the person who called it in, should all be held both criminally and civilly responsible. And fully prosecuted.


I absolutely agree and I think "no knock raids" should be used ONLY for known violent criminals and when the address is 100% correct. Too many people have been killed or injured by mistake with little to no accountability. I support LEOs and have family in LE but I just don't like the "no knocks" because of the mistakes that have been made.
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  #5  
Old 05-08-2020, 03:21 PM
Levian Levian is offline
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I heard about this when it happened. Absolutely disgusting. The last few lines of the article are gut wrenching because the author is right, as was Duncan Lemp.
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  #6  
Old 05-08-2020, 08:02 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is offline
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Md is in my territory and I travel there often, well before the "crisis". Anyway I don't understand why anyone would live there. Get the hell out or vote these leftist out. Some one needs to go to jail on this, accountability is a must if we are going to stop this.
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  #7  
Old 05-08-2020, 08:55 PM
IGWright IGWright is offline
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"No knock" raids that lead to unwarranted murder,
should be followed up with "No knock" criminal charges against anyone who acted in violation of the civil rights of the victim(s),
and a "No knock" lawsuit against all culpable individuals associated with the entire event,
including the anonymous tipster.

Ian
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  #8  
Old 05-08-2020, 10:37 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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It will come to an accounting sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by IGWright View Post
"No knock" raids that lead to unwarranted murder,
should be followed up with "No knock" criminal charges against anyone who acted in violation of the civil rights of the victim(s),
and a "No knock" lawsuit against all culpable individuals associated with the entire event,
including the anonymous tipster.

Ian
But how many innocent victims will be killed in the interim?
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  #9  
Old 05-09-2020, 09:39 AM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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That happened a year or so over near Houston, where they botched a "No Knock" raid and killed the two people inside the home. Then down south they did a home raid and badly burned a toddler in its crib with a smoke grenade. It goes on and on. "No Knock" raids end to get people killed. The occupants are likely to think they are in the midst of a home invasion by criminals, rivals, etc. Of course the FBI botched a kidnapping case where they killed the victim too. Too many gangs are using police attire in a effort to confuse the occupants long enough for them to subdue the victims. Thus the occupants may start shooting before they find out they are really police.

Last edited by earlwb; 05-09-2020 at 09:40 AM. Reason: add more info
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  #10  
Old 05-09-2020, 10:06 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC shooter View Post
I absolutely agree and I think "no knock raids" should be used ONLY for known violent criminals and when the address is 100% correct. Too many people have been killed or injured by mistake with little to no accountability. I support LEOs and have family in LE but I just don't like the "no knocks" because of the mistakes that have been made.
Absolutely, itís not like the law abiding gun owner is going to crawl out the back window. Yes officer, please come in. Yes, these are all legal. Whatís that? Who? That crazy old wind bag has been after me for years because my dog crapped on her lawn. Yes sir, I did flip her off, but this is what I get?? 90% of the calls will go down similarly if it is approached in the right manner. Kicking the door in at midnight will only get people killed. Idiots!
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  #11  
Old 05-09-2020, 11:01 AM
johnireland johnireland is offline
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I take my hearing aids off at night. If someone came busting in my door in the middle of the night or early morning, I doubt I'd ever hear them announcing who there were. The first thing I'd be sure I heard, after my door being smashed, is the sound of my .45 acps going down the hallway at the masked intruders.
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2020, 11:25 AM
drail drail is offline
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This kind of stuff has been going on for years and if we the people do not get control of the police we will see a civil war in this country. If should never have been allowed to get this far out of hand - but it has. Every one of these stories fuels the "us vs. them" mentality that is growing in America. There is absolutely no justifiable reason a a "no knock" raid. The police "try" to justify no knock raids claiming it will somehow "prevent" a crime. That is not their job and is not not authorized by the Constitution - State or Federal.

Last edited by drail; 05-09-2020 at 11:31 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2020, 11:57 AM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is offline
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Tyranny has become Law.
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Old 05-09-2020, 12:55 PM
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You guys are missing the forest for the trees.
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  #15  
Old 05-09-2020, 01:04 PM
JT... JT... is offline
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The situation about red flag laws, if it continues to grow From state to state, IMHO will create a civil war!
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  #16  
Old 05-09-2020, 01:05 PM
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No it won't.
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  #17  
Old 05-09-2020, 01:07 PM
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Opinions are like a*** h*** everyone has one!
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Old 05-09-2020, 01:08 PM
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You bet. But mine are backed by fact, not speculation.
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  #19  
Old 05-09-2020, 01:10 PM
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You bet. But mine are backed by fact, not speculation.
Yeah righT Lol
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Old 05-09-2020, 01:12 PM
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You bet. But mine are backed by fact, not speculation.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
Yeah righT Lol[IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/biglaugh.gif[/IMG]
Yep, I'm right all right.
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Old 05-09-2020, 01:53 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is offline
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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
You guys are missing the forest for the trees.
I don't mean to be obtuse, but what are we not seeing?

This is close to brownshirt tactics. It was predicted that red flags would be abused, and it is happening and people are getting killed with no due process. Perhaps people the law or the government didn't like. That's what I'm seeing.

I'm curious as to what you're seeing. If killing people without due process is the trees, what is the forest? That the country's turning into a facist police state?
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Old 05-09-2020, 02:00 PM
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Meaning, you guys are focusing on the police. The no-knock tragedies are the symptom, not the cause.

It's the politicians you need to drill down on. THEY are the ones that pass these laws. It's not the hands that are responsible for a criminal act. It's the dude living inside the skull.

And ultimately, it isn't even the politicians. It's the mouth breathers that elect them. But that's another discussion entirely.
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2020, 02:05 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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This is correct.

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Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Meaning, you guys are focusing on the police. The no-knock tragedies are the symptom, not the cause.

It's the politicians you need to drill down on. THEY are the ones that pass these laws. It's not the hands that are responsible for a criminal act. It's the dude living inside the skull.

And ultimately, it isn't even the politicians. It's the mouth breathers that elect them. But that's another discussion entirely.
The guys that are executing these raids. They are not just deciding to do this on their own initiative. They are given their marching orders from elected officials.

This is where this thing needs to be shut down. Voting out the legislators that draft and pass these illegal laws.
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Old 05-09-2020, 02:07 PM
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The guys that are executing these raids. They are not just deciding to do this on their own initiative. They are given their marching orders from elected officials.

This is where this thing needs to be shut down. Voting out the legislators that draft and pass these illegal laws.
Damn right. +1911!
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  #25  
Old 05-09-2020, 04:49 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
Meaning, you guys are focusing on the police. The no-knock tragedies are the symptom, not the cause.

It's the politicians you need to drill down on. THEY are the ones that pass these laws. It's not the hands that are responsible for a criminal act. It's the dude living inside the skull.

And ultimately, it isn't even the politicians. It's the mouth breathers that elect them. But that's another discussion entirely.
Well, yeah, I knew that. I know you didn't direct the comment at me only, but I was just curious as to the reasoning.

Yeah just like the Vietnam-era hatred of the solider. It isn't the soldier, it's the politicos behind their bosses that need the tar and feathers.

Seeing soldiesr kill kids in Kent State didn't help, though. And when people see cops kill people like this doesn't help in exactly the same way Kent State didn't help. The cops will get a certain share of the blame.

There must be a political price to pay for the past 50 years. And I think even John Q. Sixpack is waking up to it.

All we can do is shine a light on the looney left and hopefully people will see the truth.

We need to fix the schools, first. We need to do that, right the hell now. I don't even know where to start fixing that one.
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