Armed protestors enter Michigan capital and demand end to lockdown - Page 2 - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 05-02-2020, 12:26 AM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hooterville in S.C. Kansas
Posts: 7,614
The way I look at it, those that were armed were exercising their 1st & 2nd Amendment Rights at the same time.

In all probability, they might well be the reason that the protest stayed Peaceful.

And, given the proclivities of the Michigan Governor, it's not surprising that she continues to ignore the Protesters and Dictate nonsensical Executive Orders.
__________________
I hope and pray that none may kill me, Nor I kill any, with woundings grim. But if ever any should think to kill me, I pray thee, God, let me kill him first
I leave this rule for others when I'm dead, Be always sure you're right — THEN GO AHEAD! Davy Crockett
  #27  
Old 05-02-2020, 12:46 AM
Flight Medic's Avatar
Flight Medic Flight Medic is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
To me it's BOTH the rifle AND the camo that are lame & pointless.

Because neither has a dang thing to do with what they are protesting about.

If you are going to use cosplay & props, make them relevant to the subject.
I guess I was going back to the comment about about the Virginia organizers asking folks not to dress like soldiers. I totally agree you shouldn't bring a weapon to a protest regarding forced-sheltering, but brandishing a rifle at a 2A rally is sort of the point.
__________________
SAVE OUR COUNTRY - VOTE TRUMP 2020
  #28  
Old 05-02-2020, 12:53 AM
JLS1911 JLS1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 209
I can only speak for myself, the problem I had with the governor and her stay at home rules made no sense at all to me. During all this time I went to a local store that sells country items. Kind of like a Farm and Fleet, Tractor Supply store. Was able to purchase more than enough ammo to last me for awhile. All be it only 4-50 round boxes of any cal. at a time but when these protests started we were NOT allowed to go to the same store and buy garden seeds for crying out loud. Couldn't buy lumber, clothing, landscaping materials of any kind. So, for me, if I can go to the local dispensary and get all the weed I want and the local liquor store and fill up on all the beer, wine and booze I want, what sense does it make that I can't buy seeds to plant my garden? For crying out loud we weren't even allowed to hop in a boat if it had a gas motor to do a little fishing EVEN if our backyard was the lake! There were other things that we weren't able to do as well but I'm starting to get a bit hot under the collar right now and don't really have the strength to list them all. Although some restrictions have just recently been lifted I don't think we are close to the point where everything should be open. We are getting there but not just yet. Time to learn some patience and try to find the best in these times. For instance, a new member of my family was introduced to us 7lbs 20" at a time on April 2nd. That's what I'm trying to concentrate on. Hopefully I will be able to visit her without fear of breaking some kind of "rule" very soon. Please be safe and careful everyone.
  #29  
Old 05-02-2020, 02:52 AM
IGWright IGWright is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 166
You also have to be aware of the possibility that the anti-gun people are going to hire shills to put on army fatigues and stir things up.

This happened here in CA.
They had "Protests" that were heavily cast with shills who where conducting street races and other dangerous activities,
as a manufactured comment on the "type of people who would protest",
and how "dangerous and foolish they all are".

And, sure enough, social media had a bunch of memes that next day depicting protesters as misguided.

It's funny how every tactic in play has an exact Contitutional provision,
denouncing it as illegal.
The founding fathers sure knew what they were doing.
I miss those guys.
  #30  
Old 05-02-2020, 05:12 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,316
They did the right thing by protesting...These lock-downs may have had there place but it is time to lift them in places it makes sense...Keeping the economy closed is a clear and present danger to our economy and our freedom's. Moreover, it will facilitate the slide into Socialize which has already gone too far in our country and the world.

If one is at high risk, stay home for now, wear a mask and gloves when out in public, consider it a very extended flue season. That is exactly what I intend to do for the foreseeable future as over 60 and on chemo. I wouldn't expect the country to be destroyed on my account and not sure why anyone else would expect it on their account either...

There are very simple ways to combat this to protect the vulnerable which don't take people's rights away or destroy the economy: Like fortifying the practices and standards at nursing homes (40+% of the CV9 deaths), and doing things to give the "vulnerable" easy and safer access to food and other basic human needs, like a freaking "Senior" hour in the AM. Even places like shooting ranges should have a senior hour. Be creative, this is not rocket science, 4th major pandemic in USA in last 100 years.

Luckily, I shoot at an expansive outdoor range, and 2 weeks after it is open (let the mass back-log go through) I'll be shooting without my mask :-).

Whether people should go arm to this protest is debatable. In the past I would say no, but these days, I'm more inclined to say yes. It is important for people outside our community to know 2A is a right on par with any C-right. And that all these C-rights support each other and all of them are needed for the Constitution to be self-sustaining. (They are all connected).
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 05-02-2020 at 05:25 AM.
  #31  
Old 05-02-2020, 06:42 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,802
I’m sure we have all seen the way some people dress up for a college or NFL football game.
Body paint, bare chested in 0 degree weather etc, some pretty crazy stuff; you get my point. I wouldnt go to a game that way, but I’m also not going to say they cant or shouldn’t if its within the law. This Michigan Governor is clearly getting carried away with the power “high” she’s been enjoying at the people’s expense. The people pushed back.
  #32  
Old 05-02-2020, 10:43 AM
magazineman magazineman is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,314
I was thinking about this, after my post last night, & came up with the same analogy that dsk posted this morning:

It's like if an angry neighbor comes to my home carrying a rifle.

At that point I don't care if his Parking Space beef is valid or not. And I don't give a rat's butt if he's Multi-Tasking supporting the 2A while also confronting me, armed and dressed like a commando.

He has now escalated a parking disagreement into an implied deadly threat.

Thus I would be entirely justified in drawing on him & holding him at gunpoint until the police arrived.

And the responding officers would also not give a damn about his parking beef either, legitimate or not.

His complaints would fall on deaf ears. Later, the judge would also ignore the parking issue.
  #33  
Old 05-02-2020, 10:53 AM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plantar5 View Post
I’m sure we have all seen the way some people dress up for a college or NFL football game.
Body paint, bare chested in 0 degree weather etc, some pretty crazy stuff; you get my point. I wouldnt go to a game that way, but I’m also not going to say they cant or shouldn’t if its within the law. This Michigan Governor is clearly getting carried away with the power “high” she’s been enjoying at the people’s expense. The people pushed back.
Nobody is questioning whether it's legal or within their rights. The question is whether it is smart.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
  #34  
Old 05-02-2020, 11:03 AM
magazineman magazineman is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,314
Yep. It's also legal for me to show up at the school board with a homework complaint.

Wearing a ski mask & carrying a hockey stick.
  #35  
Old 05-02-2020, 11:16 AM
Icecream Icecream is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 141
Exactly. The antis don't care in their game plan, they stick together no matter what. This is why the constitution and our rights will eventually we be dismantled. Those who say they support the Constitution always have a reason on why not to support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC shooter View Post
What is really funny is that people moan and bitch about what politicians are doing to our country then they turn around and moan and bitch about how protesters dressed and carried out a peaceful and legal protest.
  #36  
Old 05-02-2020, 11:38 AM
GlenS GlenS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Nobody is tioning whether it's legal or within their rights. The question is whether it is smart.
Exactly. Some of these people walk around with an AR-15 draped across their shoulder and really don't think people will feel threatened. Even if it is legal. And notice they generally have a camera close by to capture on video when the police challenge them. But, when some nut job does a mass shooting they scream "Why didn't the police take notice and do something". I spent 23 years in law enforcement and I am so glad I am retired and not having to put up with the crap.

Second amendment folks should be piling on these people for shooting them all in the foot just so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. Think I'll lock myself in my home and ignore them all!
  #37  
Old 05-02-2020, 12:50 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,314
In Atlanta there were a couple dudes with flags & signs standing on the median yelling stuff.

I initially dismissed them as "The End Is Near" or "Save The Porcupines" type kooks.

But as I drove closer I saw they had AR's and were Open Carry / 2A guys.

The motorists who were not ignoring them altogether, were either honking in support or giving them the finger.

Clearly they were not creating any new supporters.

Give me a Pro 2A Million-Man march on Washington. With every single one of those million people dressed normally & respectfully. No signs, no chanting, no guns, no NRA patches, none of that stuff.

Just regular men & women in mass support of the 2A with zero nutcase factor. They show up on time, make some reasonable speeches, pick up their litter, then disburse without conflict.

Normalize the issue. Show us as most of us are: Sane & rational. Nobody wants to listen to you if you are acting the fool. Your points are lost if you are perceived as nutty.
  #38  
Old 05-02-2020, 01:13 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Texas
Posts: 11,713
I suppose the key question is whether showing up visibly armed, as if ready for war, at the state's capital really helps to persuade others to view 2A rights more positively.

I wonder if anyone who was not already strongly in the 2A camp was influenced by the armed display to now join the 2A camp. And I wonder how many others might have been influenced to move, or move further, in the other direction.

Those are the questions I perceive as being most relevant about such displays.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member

"Freedom is only a temporary thing unless it is backed by the blunt capability and willingness to fight back against evil with sufficient arms." -- Myself
  #39  
Old 05-02-2020, 01:34 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rocky mountain area
Posts: 687
Good questions. I would guess ‘no’. Again, adult behavior is often deciding what one ‘can’ do, and then decide if one ‘should’ do it.
  #40  
Old 05-02-2020, 02:20 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: In the pines
Age: 60
Posts: 1,385
In VA the media made out like the crazy armed people were going to come to the capitol to start trouble. The Governor put up fences and they made out like there was going to be a great conflict. The media’s wet dream did not happen. Thousands of armed, law abiding citizens showed up and America saw that normal ordinary American citizens could carry arms without going crazy and without any conflict that those on the left wanted but possibly decided to avoid because armed people are not easy targets to beat with bike locks and cement milk shakes.

The people in Michigan were protesting a different right but all rights are important and we should stand up for them and do what is necessary to keep them. The people in Michigan saw what happened in Virginia and how the politicians backed off on some of the laws they wanted to pass.

They went to their capitol that belongs to them over a Constitutional right not to their neighbors house over a parking dispute.

They were armed but they were peaceful and legal and if people think that is wrong and shouldn’t be done then all you have to do is elect more democrats.
__________________
I am a proud to be a member of the NRA, GOA, FPC and The 2nd Amendment Foundation

Last edited by SC shooter; 05-02-2020 at 02:22 PM.
  #41  
Old 05-02-2020, 02:21 PM
Welder Guy Welder Guy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: SC
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
I suppose the key question is whether showing up visibly armed, as if ready for war, at the state's capital really helps to persuade others to view 2A rights more positively.

I wonder if anyone who was not already strongly in the 2A camp was influenced by the armed display to now join the 2A camp. And I wonder how many others might have been influenced to move, or move further, in the other direction.

Those are the questions I perceive as being most relevant about such displays.
That could have been asked of the 2A supporters in VA as well. Could their point have been made without being armed outside the capital building and be enough to influence the legislators? Maybe. But there are those on this forum who will definitely say “No.” and carrying guns was needed to make an impact. As for the “cosplayers” or the “those guys should join the military if they want to wear tactical gear” comments, one could argue VA had their share of those guys too.
Attached Thumbnails
89CDADA3-6926-4903-8536-6E8C0166A0D7.png   658E3F2D-70C9-426A-82F1-32BE86442F4B.jpeg   45B2C2F5-D598-410B-8B5A-CB6D183A5582.jpeg  
  #42  
Old 05-02-2020, 02:45 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rocky mountain area
Posts: 687
Yes, and despite being asked NOT to show up dressed like clowns, they did so anyway.

And I say it was detrimental to the objective that day, in by showing up in clown suits, media attention was drawn from the organizers, and their message by the circus acts.

But at least the subject was the 2A rights of the citizens of VA. Not so in MI.
  #43  
Old 05-02-2020, 03:37 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,762
I'm not going to argue with those of you who feel that dressing up like a soldier and carrying a rifle at public demonstrations is part of the spirit of the Second Amendment. I'm a hard-core gun rights supporter and I'm not intimidated by people dressing up like that. Nor is most everyone else here on this forum.

The question is though, how do you think the average person in the street feels about it? Is the intent to persuade them to support the 2A as well, or is it merely an "Up yours, and don't mess with my rights!" sort of thing? Just remember that most people are neither hard-core conservatives nor die-hard liberals. They are what we call "swing voters", who either don't feel strongly about things either way or else support some conservative causes and some liberal ones. These people are the ones who decide elections, not us hard-core types on either end of the political spectrum. If it was only up to us then politicians wouldn't even bother to campaign, as everybody's minds would already be made up. It's those who are on the fence every election who make the difference, and if people like the ones showing up at rallies in camouflage and with an AR at the ready are scaring or intimidating them then these gun carriers aren't doing themselves or us any favors.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
  #44  
Old 05-02-2020, 04:09 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,314
Yes, facts mean little in politics. And perceptions / impressions are EVERYTHING.

A group of armed dudes, dressed for war, trying to influence lawmakers on an unrelated issue creates a bad impression.

The perception of that will not be positive. Again, impressions MATTER.

Everyone knows about the infamous Nixon / Kennedy debate. Where Nixon won, Hands Down.

Beat him on almost all points. However, Kennedy came out ahead in the minds of Americans. Because he showed well. flawlessly manicured & dressed, sparking smile & charming. He carried & presented himself like a president.

Whereas Nixon was unshaven, clothes wrinkled, and had the bearing of a unemployed salesman, compared to Kennedy's winner / movie star vibe.

That debate is used by political science teachers as an example of impression mattering more than being correct.

Don't be a Nixon.
  #45  
Old 05-02-2020, 04:10 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: In the pines
Age: 60
Posts: 1,385
I hope you don't mind me borrowing your post from the thread on Canada.

This is a post by DSK from another thread that I thought made a relevant point:

“Even in a land such as ours we still have to fight constant infringements on our constitutional rights. Now realize that these other countries do not have constitutions where individual rights are laid out, and you can easily see that gun owners outside the USA don't have a snowball's chance in hell of stopping strict new gun laws if the rest of the population has no problem with it. Simple majority rule means that when two wolves and a sheep decide on what to have for lunch the sheep is screwed. We gun enthusiasts are a minority in this country, even if people who own guns aren't. Only the US Constitution and strong political groups like the NRA are able to keep the wolves in this country from deciding our fate. And both are being chipped at every single day.”

It seems that some might say that if the sheep shows up armed and wearing a tactical vest and camo he is making a bad impression on all the other sheep. Some might even call that sheep a clown and that is a whole lot like the crap leftist say.

This post by USMM was in the same thread:

With a disarmed citizenry.
These so called civil rights are only about as good as the paper that they are written on. The whole rationale for having our second amendment rights to begin with. Is that an armed population is the final check against government tyranny.

Without it the government can do with you as they please. They have no plans to give up their weaponry. Historically genocide is invariably preceded by civilian disarmament. At some point you either draw a line in the sand, or you get on the train.
__________________
I am a proud to be a member of the NRA, GOA, FPC and The 2nd Amendment Foundation
  #46  
Old 05-02-2020, 04:28 PM
SC shooter SC shooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: In the pines
Age: 60
Posts: 1,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
I'm not going to argue with those of you who feel that dressing up like a soldier and carrying a rifle at public demonstrations is part of the spirit of the Second Amendment. I'm a hard-core gun rights supporter and I'm not intimidated by people dressing up like that. Nor is most everyone else here on this forum.
I guess my biggest problem is that these law abiding fellow gun owners are being called clowns, kooks, nutty, basement dwelling mall ninjas, morons, idiots dressing up like soldiers and acting like a fool.

That would be fine if I were watching msnbc or one of the other crap spewing left wing propaganda mouth pieces for the democratic party but I would not expect it on a gun forum from people who truly support the Constitution or the 2nd Amendment.

I said it before but if you don't like the way these people dressed, protested and carried weapons legally and peacefully then fix it so they can't do it any more vote for more democrats.
__________________
I am a proud to be a member of the NRA, GOA, FPC and The 2nd Amendment Foundation
  #47  
Old 05-02-2020, 04:45 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South
Posts: 2,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC shooter View Post
I guess my biggest problem is that these law abiding fellow gun owners are being called clowns, kooks, nutty, basement dwelling mall ninjas, morons, idiots dressing up like soldiers and acting like a fool.

That would be fine if I were watching msnbc or one of the other crap spewing left wing propaganda mouth pieces for the democratic party but I would not expect it on a gun forum from people who truly support the Constitution or the 2nd Amendment.

I said it before but if you don't like the way these people dressed, protested and carried weapons legally and peacefully then fix it so they can't do it any more vote for more democrats.
I totally agree! Just because they don't look like several of our members want them to look, doesn't mean they're clowns. And the whole reason for being armed is exactly the point regarding the 2nd amendment: keeping the Gov't in check.
  #48  
Old 05-02-2020, 05:33 PM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 70,762
I agree that for us pro-2A people to call them clowns is going overboard. But they certainly look like clowns in the eyes of ordinary people who are not hardcore gun enthusiasts.
__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
  #49  
Old 05-02-2020, 05:48 PM
Welder Guy Welder Guy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: SC
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
I totally agree! Just because they don't look like several of our members want them to look, doesn't mean they're clowns. And the whole reason for being armed is exactly the point regarding the 2nd amendment: keeping the Gov't in check.
IMO, this is the point of the protests in MI. Again, governors like Witmer, Cuomo, Newsom and Murphy are beginning to or have overstepped their authority. Some are even violating their own state constitutions regarding emergencies. Witmer has already said there “will be no negotiation” with her decisions and from what I’ve read the Republican controlled legislature have already filed a law suit against her. The Constitution as a whole needs to be protected, not just the 2nd Amendment. I have a feeling after this is all said and done there’s going to be legal challenges to what some of these governors have done.

This virus is not what it was once thought, or represented to be. Keep in mind some said there would be 2,000,000 dead and we’re not even remotely close to that. We know who is the most vulnerable, how it spreads, how to prevent it from spreading and treatments are advancing by the day. So why haven't some people adjusted? Why do they declare our freedoms and liberties cancelled until they say so? When this is over, speaking for myself, I won’t buy into the BS of a quarantine ever again. There is too much to lose.

Last edited by Welder Guy; 05-02-2020 at 06:36 PM.
  #50  
Old 05-02-2020, 06:22 PM
combat auto combat auto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,316
Believe me in the past, I would always "frown" on being armed to the hilt in the army gear. But things have changed since the VA-Rally. It is "out of the closet" now, more and more people are getting why 2A is so important. The lefty and media will always disparage these 2A supporters, camo or not, so trying to appease them by acting according to what is acceptable in their opinion is a waste of time...And VA showed the entire country that honorable Armed citizen's (with camo lol) are law abiding to the 9's. It was quite a media success in this regard. Talk to your friends who are not gun nuts like us and also not cookie-hard-left wingers, ask their opinion about the VA rally. You might be surprised. (Forget about the hard left, nothing will change their minds).

All rights are connected, if the patriots in Michigan want to cover 2 rights at one time kudos to them! You can't say VA was cool, but these guys are not cool, logically in-congruent.

So I'm more along the lines of SC and Brad as far as my opinion.
__________________
Member: NRA, GOA, ANJRPC, VCDL.
"To be born free is an accident. To live free is a responsibility. To die free is an obligation."-Gen. Halley.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." –Ulysses
Ekeibolon - Jeff Cooper

Last edited by combat auto; 05-02-2020 at 06:34 PM.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved