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  #1  
Old 04-06-2020, 09:11 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Who would have thunk it?

Talk about a Rube Goldberg setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zJP89orlbc
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2020, 10:10 PM
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fast eddie fast eddie is online now
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Very cool. Maybe not practical...... but very cool.
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  #3  
Old 04-07-2020, 12:12 PM
Pizza Bob Pizza Bob is offline
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1970's Sky Marshals were armed with Charter Arms Bulldogs in .44 Special. My buddy had an "in" and he garnered a lot of nickel plated .44 Spl brass from their practice range. The idea being that a large, slow moving projectile was less likely to overpenetrate humans or airplane skin.

A philosophy abandoned with the 2000's Sky Marshals who carried Sig P229's chambered in .357 Sig.

Adios,

Pizza Bob
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  #4  
Old 04-07-2020, 12:28 PM
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Funny how so many people bought the notion that poking a tiny hole in an airplane skin at 35,000 feet would cause a massive blowout sucking out luggage, trays and hairpieces. Apparently nobody ever bothered to actually test that theory, as important as it would have seemed. The biggest problem with firing a gun on an airplane is the tight quarters and the huge number of innocent people in the way of whatever bad guy you're shooting at. Instead of ducking behind the seats you can be sure that a bunch of them would panic and stand up right in line with the terrorist or hijacker. I think a standard revolver with Glaser Safety Slugs would be as good as anything for defense on an airplane, but I guess "plastering" them works too.
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Old 04-07-2020, 01:03 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Well, it was right there in a James Bond movie; shoot out a porthole and whoever is in that seat will be sucked out. Actually, an airliner leaks like a sieve anyhow and there is plenty of bleed air from the compressor section of a jet engine to make up for a few bullet holes.

A Cold Equation approach would be to use a high penetration bullet. Better to shoot through a stewardess to hit the terr than to lose the whole planeload.
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Old 04-07-2020, 01:08 PM
drail drail is offline
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Google "outflow valve". Turns out there are already some pretty large holes in an airliner put there by the factory. The cabin pressurization system is constantly letting air out and bringing engine bleed air in to maintain a comfortable air pressure for the humans. I wouldn't worry as much about hitting a passenger with a bullet as I would be about severing wires and hydraulic lines. Lose control of the plane and everybody dies.

Last edited by drail; 04-07-2020 at 01:11 PM.
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  #7  
Old 04-07-2020, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drail View Post
Google "outflow valve". Turns out there are already some pretty large holes in an airliner put there by the factory. The cabin pressurization system is constantly letting air out and bringing engine bleed air in to maintain a comfortable air pressure for the humans. I wouldn't worry as much about hitting a passenger with a bullet as I would be about severing wires and hydraulic lines. Lose control of the plane and everybody dies.
You only have to worry about that if the Air Marshal is stupid enough to point his gun upwards and fire a warning shot. Most lines and cables run either overhead or below.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #8  
Old 04-07-2020, 04:28 PM
warbird1 warbird1 is offline
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Informative thread. Interesting!
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2020, 05:10 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
You only have to worry about that if the Air Marshal is stupid enough to point his gun upwards and fire a warning shot. Most lines and cables run either overhead or below.
No gunfire involved, but I once had a C-172 flap cable break while on short final. That side auto retracted due to airflow while the other stayed down. It was a real struggle to maintain control, determine the problem, and land without pranging the plane. I missed the runway, but made an unoccupied taxiway. I needed new drawers afterwards.
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:33 PM
drail drail is offline
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Missed the runway but found a taxiway? Good work man! Landings are always the best part of the flight aren't they? Any sarcastic comments from the ATC when you landed on the taxiway?
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  #11  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:55 PM
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Any sarcastic comments from the ATC when you landed on the taxiway?
"Who the Hell is flying that airplane?!? Harrison Ford???"
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  #12  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:38 AM
DR505 DR505 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
No gunfire involved, but I once had a C-172 flap cable break while on short final. That side auto retracted due to airflow while the other stayed down. It was a real struggle to maintain control, determine the problem, and land without pranging the plane. I missed the runway, but made an unoccupied taxiway. I needed new drawers afterwards.
When I was in the Navy they used to say, “take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.”
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Old 04-08-2020, 09:21 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
.... Better to shoot through a stewardess to hit the terr than to lose the whole planeload.
Actually....would you mind shooting the SOB behind me who keeps pushing and rocking on my seat back for the entire 4 hr flight to LA?
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  #14  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:44 AM
MichaelE MichaelE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
No gunfire involved, but I once had a C-172 flap cable break while on short final. That side auto retracted due to airflow while the other stayed down. It was a real struggle to maintain control, determine the problem, and land without pranging the plane. I missed the runway, but made an unoccupied taxiway. I needed new drawers afterwards.
A split-flap condition could have been catastrophic. Especially on short final. Seriously surprising that you didn't run out of aileron.

Christ, I would have had to change my shorts a couple of times after that.

Good job on maintaining control. The roll moment must have been incredible at that speed.
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Old 04-08-2020, 05:51 PM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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Did you know right away that was your problem, or something you discovered after landing?

If you were aware of the problem, then I take it that those were the electric flaps on that 172. My 172B had manual flaps with a Johnson bar, and it would have taken a split second to dump flaps (assuming that I could quickly troubleshoot the problem), hoping to maintain enough airspeed to not stall on short final.
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  #16  
Old 04-08-2020, 07:09 PM
bipe215 bipe215 is offline
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747’s had a sextant port in the cockpit roof that, I have heard, crew members have used to evacuate cigarette smoke.
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  #17  
Old 04-08-2020, 08:30 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Originally Posted by Sistema1927 View Post
Did you know right away that was your problem, or something you discovered after landing?

If you were aware of the problem, then I take it that those were the electric flaps on that 172. My 172B had manual flaps with a Johnson bar, and it would have taken a split second to dump flaps (assuming that I could quickly troubleshoot the problem), hoping to maintain enough airspeed to not stall on short final.
After landing, but I had an inkling beforehand. It was a 172, 1957 model, not an A, B, or anything later. Figured it out while glancing out the window just before touchdown. However the Johnson bar was not cooperating. Not sure why as I am not an A&P. Guessing that it had something to do with the broken cable recoiling and jamming the works. It was all over very quickly other than the case of shakes that I had for a few hours. When it happened I reverted to what my instructor had hammered into my head - No matter what else happens, fly the plane.
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Old 04-08-2020, 09:39 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Considering the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
When it happened I reverted to what my instructor had hammered into my head - No matter what else happens, fly the plane.
It sounds like good advice to me.
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:58 PM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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Yeah, I hadn't thought about the fact that the flap failure would have jammed up the mechanism and kept you from dumping flaps. Good job, and glad that you can tell us about it.

I had only one really scary situation while flying that 1961 172B. I was flying back to ABQ from OKC during a summer day with CB's forming all around me. I had to deviate course numerous times to avoid them.

I started losing power and altitude over a section of NE NM with nothing but mountains and trees, no roads in sight. I started adding carb heat to no avail, and was ready to declare an emergency and prepare to put the plane into the tree tops. Just then, a chunk of ice broke free, power came up, and I climbed out of danger. I was never so happy to see the familiar runway layout of KAEG, my home base.

(Sorry to derail. In order to keep it revolver related, I normally had at least a S&W 642 with me while flying. )

Last edited by Sistema1927; 04-09-2020 at 07:00 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:11 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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As long as you had your S&W revolver with you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sistema1927 View Post
Yeah, I hadn't thought about the fact that the flap failure would have jammed up the mechanism and kept you from dumping flaps. Good job, and glad that you can tell us about it.

I had only one really scary situation while flying that 1961 172B. I was flying back to ABQ from OKC during a summer day with CB's forming all around me. I had to deviate course numerous times to avoid them.

I started losing power and altitude over a section of NE NM with nothing but mountains and trees, no roads in sight. I started adding carb heat to no avail, and was ready to declare an emergency and prepare to put the plane into the tree tops. Just then, a chunk of ice broke free, power came up, and I climbed out of danger. I was never so happy to see the familiar runway layout of KAEG, my home base.

(Sorry to derail. In order to keep it revolver related, I normally had at least a S&W 642 with me while flying. )
That is what is pertinent here. Likely why you are still with us today.
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  #21  
Old 04-10-2020, 07:17 AM
mkk41 mkk41 is offline
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Originally Posted by DR505 View Post
When I was in the Navy they used to say, “take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.”
And ''any landing you can walk away from is a good one''.
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Old 04-10-2020, 08:17 AM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Sometimes the thread drift can be the most interesting part of the talk.
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  #23  
Old 04-10-2020, 12:22 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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On the gun, I agree with the Rube Goldberg assessment. I would have never considered a custom, disposable cylinder and plaster bullets kept dry with Saran Wrap stuff. Gimme a break!

Just way too unnecessarily complicated. I would have only addressed the problem with special ammo in a standard gun. Yes, something like the Glaser Safety Slug.

The sealing of the cylinder to protect the plaster is particularly silly. When the plaster was found deficient that should have abandoned it altogether & used something else.

Not doubling down on a failed concept by devising a fragile work-around.

It reminds me of British cars/motorcycles Vs Japanese ones. The Japanese will completely abandon their bad ideas and start fresh. From the very beginning if necessary. Thousands of design hours thrown away.

While the English blokes seemed to engineer fixes for whatever they had already drawn.
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Old 04-11-2020, 07:41 AM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Originally Posted by bipe215 View Post
747’s had a sextant port in the cockpit roof that, I have heard, crew members have used to evacuate cigarette smoke.
True enough, but only early versions that are likely all parked-they stopped at some point in the production. I have met a few guys who actually had Flight Navigator certificates.

So did the DH Comet, some versions of the 707, DC-8 and all of the early turbojet bombers...

We now have Ait Transport Pilots who don't remember a time when there wasn't GPS!
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Old 04-11-2020, 12:32 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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None of the kids coming out of the maritime academies.

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True enough, but only early versions that are likely all parked-they stopped at some point in the production. I have met a few guys who actually had Flight Navigator certificates.

So did the DH Comet, some versions of the 707, DC-8 and all of the early turbojet bombers...

We now have Ait Transport Pilots who don't remember a time when there wasn't GPS!
None of them can do sight reductions anymore. A lot of people were crapping in their pants when Military Sealift Command told us that they might have to shut the GPS system off during the Gulf war.
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